[Benny-x]

It* doesn't make Audeze look any better to me when there are so many flagship headphones suffering no failures.

In other words, this may be a niche industry, but I can still have my cake and eat it, too. We really don't have to put up with component failures, charitably enabling dysfunctional designs, to enjoy superb audio.

Though I like Audeze's sound and don't think anyone else is like it, possibly the new MrSpeakers Ether judging by recent reports, I completely agree with what you're saying.
 
Audeze is competing with serious players and their headphone makes serious sound. They give great customer support, but it's got to be able to stand on it's own 2 feet. If not, people are just going to go elsewhere. It's too easy to find something that's just going to work and that plays in the same league. 
 
Again, with no comments from them we have no idea to what degree they're working on this, but they better find something fast or they're going to lose more than the 4 buyers on just page 3 that will be holding off until things are ironed out. 

 

[CanadianMaestro]

A recall of defective units, or offer to inspect and repair, free of charge, would be suitable.
 
However....posting serial #'s of potentially defective units exposes legal issues. Owners of those units could view it differently, and sue Audeze for "knowingly" selling defective units.
 
Anyways, no manufacturer likes to admit their mf'ing process is flawed or that Q control was lacking. case study: Toyota. Until someone's head gets fried by a defective LCD

....

 

[Benny-x]

 
However....posting serial #'s of potentially defective units exposes legal issues. Owners of those units could view it differently, and sue Audeze for " selling defective units.

Ah, if I made something, tested it and found it to be good, sold it, and then found a range of them to be defective after intensive research, that wouldn't open me up to liability. If I found it to be defective, announced it was bad, and then sold it, that'd be different. 
 
Anyway, let's hope they can even figure our the root or at least a major contributing cause first. I want me some LCD-3s (still undecided on 3C or 3F), but I'm definitely not going to grab a pair until I think beyond a reasonable doubt that they're not going to need servicing. And when I can nail down for sure which version of them I'm getting, 2013/2014 Q1-2-3-4/2015 Q1-2

 

[IHMEYERS]

Someone I trust has told me Audeze is aware of this thread and it is unlikely they will comment.  I have seen them comment in a similar Reddit thread but that was a few months back.  The comment was a generic 'if you have a problem we will fix it.'
 
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2ukqm3/psa_audeze_owners_past_present_and_future_beware/

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  Someone I trust has told me Audeze is aware of this thread and it is unlikely they will comment.  I have seen them comment in a similar Reddit thread but that was a few months back.  The comment was a generic 'if you have a problem we will fix it.'
 
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2ukqm3/psa_audeze_owners_past_present_and_future_beware/

 
Makes sense. Cautious approach. Still, it's befuddling that a "bespoke" manufacturer (not traditional mass assembly line prodn?) would apparently have QC issues this widespread.

 

[Sweetmeat]

  Someone I trust has told me Audeze is aware of this thread and it is unlikely they will comment.  I have seen them comment in a similar Reddit thread but that was a few months back.  The comment was a generic 'if you have a problem we will fix it.'
 
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2ukqm3/psa_audeze_owners_past_present_and_future_beware/

 
This thread references a Head-Fi thread that started when Audeze quoted an LCD3 owner $800 to fix his out-of-warranty driver failure. That thread was closely monitored by Audeze and eventually caused them to modify their policy concerning warranty details and out-of-warranty cost. I don't know if Audeze will be responding to this thread, but it is worth repeating here, Audeze's response to the previous thread:
 
Given recent feedback here on Head-Fi Audeze has decided to modify the warranty policy for replacement drivers.
 
•Drivers are warranted everywhere in the world for 3 years. (If you plug them into a wall socket, go scuba diving with them or go mad scientist on them, they won’t be covered!)
•We’ll evaluate the drivers and proceed on a case-by-case basis.
•If replaced under warranty (or paid for out of warranty) the new drivers will then be warranted for a further 3 years globally. 
•When we replace drivers, either in or out of warranty, we install the latest models with all enhancements included such as Fazor elements.
•If you live outside the USA and you purchased Audeze headphones from one of our local dealers/distributors you can send them to your country’s authorized Audeze distributor for service.
•If you purchased your headphones directly from Audeze you can obtain warranty service from Audeze USA but not your local dealer/distributor.
•The prices for driver replacements have been revised.
•The LCD-3 is $375, the LCD-X/XC is $325, and the LCD-2 is now $250
 
It's worth pointing out that one of the reasons for the greater cost of driver replacement is that Audeze replaces both drivers even if only one is defective. We do that so both are matched for best performance. We don’t know of any other manufacturer that goes to these lengths to be certain you have the best product possible.
 
If you have difficulty obtaining the full 3-year warranty coverage outside the USA contact Support@Audeze.com and we'll make sure you're covered.
 
We appreciate your feedback, it helps us to keep building our world-class products.
Audeze

 

[Rico613]

  Makes sense. Cautious approach. Still, it's befuddling that a "bespoke" manufacturer (not traditional mass assembly line prodn?) would apparently have QC issues this widespread.

There are two possible explanations, IMHO ~  
 
1, they are pushing the envelope of what is possible with planar technology and there is just a high failure rate;
 
 2, they have a management / staffing / production problems they are not dealing with very effectively.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  There are two possible explanations, IMHO ~  
 
1, they are pushing the envelope of what is possible with planar technology and there is just a high failure rate;
 
 2, they have a management / staffing / production problems they are not dealing with very effectively.

 
Valid hypotheses.
 
In the end, their ability to follow-through case-by-case, in practice and not just in writing, with satisfactory customer service after-sale will be critical.

 

[aive]

Going to have to organise a second RMA - RHS connector has come loose from the wood... sigh. It's such a pain in the ass to do it from Australia... Maybe I should wait for a driver failure so I only have to ship it once.... ><

 

[bumblebeezack]

I've been doing a lot of reading on Head-fi and elsewhere because I like how the LCD series sound and while I don't want to spend money on a new LCD 3, I am seriously considering an LCD 2, and for a bit more, I can get my hands on a used LCD X or LCD 3. The new EL-8 somehow isn't the sound I want from an Audeze.

Frankly, I do not see buying expensive headphones like an Audeze the same as buying a Ferrari or anything along those lines. What does that make a Stax 009? A G6? They are what they are. Headphones. Nothing more. Nothing less. Yes, they may be expensive subjectively. But that's just what the manufacturer wants for them as they compete in a certain price range the manufacturer wants to compete in.

We sometimes romanticize purchases like these due to some perceived value we get out of them. The truth is the so called tech in this headphones aren't really that groundbreaking. The wood, is wood, the metal is normal metal, the leather is just that. Leather.

I work as a photographer and cameras and lenses are another thing that people tend to romanticize. But to me, they are what they are. A camera. Takes photos. It's a tool for me. Like a hammer to a carpenter or an electron microscope to a scientist.

Headphones are inherently a tool to listen to music. Audeze headphones are a fantastic tool to listen to music. But, regardless of how much we pay, or the marketing literature that accompanies the product. They need to work flawlessly at least before their warranty ends. It's of no use when it's spending time travelling for RMA and in repair. Just like the best camera is the one with you right now.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound I got from auditioning the Audeze LCD series. But I look at these things with really fresh and open eyes. Should I spend money, hard earned or otherwise, on products that isn't reliable? Are we feeding the sub standard QC of Audeze because we are willing to gloss over their reliability. But a dead headphone is a dead headphone. Whether Audeze or Beats.

I will probably lean towards an LCD 2, because it seems to be fairing better in reliability, although my heart is a little heavy with caution over the Audeze brand now.

Pardon my humble opinions...

 

[Duke40]

  Going to have to organise a second RMA - RHS connector has come loose from the wood... sigh. It's such a pain in the ass to do it from Australia... Maybe I should wait for a driver failure so I only have to ship it once.... ><

I have empathy for you, agree it is a PITA ... my Post Master even recognise's the trend, on average they break down every 6.5 months due to AMTBF.
 
He is getting very accurate with AMTBF ... just last week he asked me "Is it time yet?".
 
I am in Australia as well, though I am on my 5th RMA .... though that is just for failed drivers.
Understand the loose connector issue ... I once sent the LCD3 in for RHS driver repair ... and it was returned from Audeze repairs with a loose LHS connector 

 
So my driver got repaired , yet they damaged the LHS connector ???
 
 
I am trying to keep my thoughts on the LCD3 fair and balanced  (which I believe or hope every understands that is what I am trying to do), so to keep perspective,
as pretty much every post I have made since driver failure number 5 ;
 
1)   Sound Quality        100%     A true reference headphone ... outstanding, or take your pick of positive descriptions ... truly a game changer that others should be judged against
2)   Comfort                  100%     I love it !!!  Weight does not worry me,  just as comfortable to me as putting on my favourite leather jacket
3)   Reliability                   0%     Epic Fail

 

[Duke40]

I've been doing a lot of reading on Head-fi and elsewhere because I like how the LCD series sound and while I don't want to spend money on a new LCD 3, I am seriously considering an LCD 2, and for a bit more, I can get my hands on a used LCD X or LCD 3. The new EL-8 somehow isn't the sound I want from an Audeze.

Frankly, I do not see buying expensive headphones like an Audeze the same as buying a Ferrari or anything along those lines. What does that make a Stax 009? A G6? They are what they are. Headphones. Nothing more. Nothing less. Yes, they may be expensive subjectively. But that's just what the manufacturer wants for them as they compete in a certain price range the manufacturer wants to compete in.

We sometimes romanticize purchases like these due to some perceived value we get out of them. The truth is the so called tech in this headphones aren't really that groundbreaking. The wood, is wood, the metal is normal metal, the leather is just that. Leather.

I work as a photographer and cameras and lenses are another thing that people tend to romanticize. But to me, they are what they are. A camera. Takes photos. It's a tool for me. Like a hammer to a carpenter or an electron microscope to a scientist.

Headphones are inherently a tool to listen to music. Audeze headphones are a fantastic tool to listen to music. But, regardless of how much we pay, or the marketing literature that accompanies the product. They need to work flawlessly at least before their warranty ends. It's of no use when it's spending time travelling for RMA and in repair. Just like the best camera is the one with you right now.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound I got from auditioning the Audeze LCD series. But I look at these things with really fresh and open eyes. Should I spend money, hard earned or otherwise, on products that isn't reliable? Are we feeding the sub standard QC of Audeze because we are willing to gloss over their reliability. But a dead headphone is a dead headphone. Whether Audeze or Beats.

I will probably lean towards an LCD 2, because it seems to be fairing better in reliability, although my heart is a little heavy with caution over the Audeze brand now.

Pardon my humble opinions...

 
+1   on your comments
 
If I may have permission to make a suggestion ... just try searching the Audeze threads for keywords for "Failure", "Fail", "Driver".
 
It is such a common issue for the LCD3 so it may be best to avoid this model ... a few instances on the LCD2 threads, though I assume as it is at a lower price point, a lot more of these were sold.
 
When I tried those keywords in the LCD-X thread .... it is actually difficult to find instances of driver failures ... oh,  they are there ... but it just appears to be a minor risk.
 
What I am leading to is ... the LCD-X  appears a much safer option than the LCD3 ... as far as reliability is concerned.

 

[bumblebeezack]

+1   on your comments

If I may have permission to make a suggestion ... just try searching the Audeze threads for keywords for "Failure", "Fail", "Driver".

It is such a common issue for the LCD3 so it may be best to avoid this model ... a few instances on the LCD2 threads, though I assume as it is at a lower price point, a lot more of these were sold.

When I tried those keywords in the LCD-X thread .... it is actually difficult to find instances of driver failures ... oh,  they are there ... but it just appears to be a minor risk.

What I am leading to is ... the LCD-X  appears a much safer option than the LCD3 ... as far as reliability is concerned.

Yeah, I've read some of those threads. I do like the sound of the LCD 3 and 2 over the LCD X though... It's illogical perhaps that I'm still thinking of buying an Audeze despite their problems. But I see listening to music as an endeavor far from logic!

The EL8 seems a more modern approach with perhaps better reliability, who knows, as it's too early to say. But what's up with the sound...

It's scary thinking about driver failures. A loose connection is a close 2nd. It'll be "heartbreaking" to send them back for warranty!

But the sound that comes out of them is not so easy to forget. In a way I envy you guys who have had the good fortune to listen to them perhaps if a little briefly for some.

I've been looking at planars as my next headphone purchase and comparing the Oppo, Hifiman and Audeze, I lean towards the sound of the Audeze LCD 3 and 2. Construction-wise, I think the Oppo seems better.

Oh well...

 

[CanadianMaestro]

It's interesting, the remarks here on this thread. I just sold my LCD-2.2, after two glorious yrs of trouble-free use. I really enjoyed it, but got fed up with its heavy weight. Then I found out about HE560 from a friend. Bought it, and now, I found just the planars for my music with comfort at 5 stars.
 
As for bumblebeezack's comments about romanticizing HPs, I try to remember that, for many people, HPs represent their sole means for enjoying music up close, with full speakers being out of reach for them. Also, it wasn't too long ago that HPs were a real novelty, at least high-quality HPs. And for some, HPs may be a means for making a living (audio mixers, musicians, etc). So for me, it's a psychological thing. We enjoy pleasure and things that give us pleasure and make life easier for us (cameras, cars, etc). Just happens that many of the devices (technology) that enable pleasure and convenience are mechanical. So it may seem like romanticizing an object, but I think it's more a sense of emotional attachment to one's favorite gadgets, for lack of a better term.

 

[bumblebeezack]

It's interesting, the remarks here on this thread. I just sold my LCD-2.2, after two glorious yrs of trouble-free use. I really enjoyed it, but got fed up with its heavy weight. Then I found out about HE560 from a friend. Bought it, and now, I found just the planars for my music with comfort at 5 stars.

As for bumblebeezack's comments about romanticizing HPs, I try to remember that, for many people, HPs represent their sole means for enjoying music up close, with full speakers being out of reach for them. Also, it wasn't too long ago that HPs were a real novelty, at least high-quality HPs. And for some, HPs may be a means for making a living (audio mixers, musicians, etc). So for me, it's a psychological thing. We enjoy pleasure and things that give us pleasure and make life easier for us (cameras, cars, etc). Just happens that many of the devices (technology) that enable pleasure and convenience are mechanical. So it may seem like romanticizing an object, but I think it's more a sense of emotional attachment to one's favorite gadgets, for lack of a better term.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. I too belong to the no loudspeakers headphone only crowd.

I think I may have muddled myself somewhat but I meant to say romanticizing a headphone when one compares it to say a Ferrari or say other so called supercars or hypercars. Or any analogy of the same kind for that matter.

I think we need to be on point when we basically just spend a thousand dollars or more on a headphone, and we expect that purchase to work well bar a few duds. We should not be giving any company Audeze or others a free "get out of jail card" because we think that just because we are paying premium they should be allowed to have more failures, because they are "exotic".

Recently there has been a spate of Lamborghini's catching fire due to electrical faults. Should we give Lamborghini a break because they are exotic? No way!

As for a sense of attachment, I agree. It's not "wrong" to feel that way towards something that you have given a certain value towards.

It's hard sometimes to express oneself in words and at the same time to not be too verbose! Hope this clarifies what I meant to say!