[ToddTheMetalGod]

Rest assured if those products were sitting on the shelf being currently manufactured their appeal would be severely diminished. 

The resale value might be, but that doesn't mean they can't compete with current TOTL headphones. I would love to try a K1000 one day, seems like a great compromise between the amazing imaging/soundstage of speakers, and the intimate detail of headphones.

 

[kman1211]

The resale value might be, but that doesn't mean they can't compete with current TOTL headphones. I would love to try a K1000 one day, seems like a great compromise between the amazing imaging/soundstage of speakers, and the intimate detail of headphones.

They compete very well with current TOTL headphones, sometimes even surpass all but the most expensive current TOTL cans which is the case of the Orpheus and R10. I still find the R10 is the best dynamic headphone ever made, the HD 800, K812, etc. are just not as good to my ears on a top of a line system. The K1000 is amazing when amped right.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Of course. Companies often dump expenses into researching new products that are inferior rather than just leaving the superior model that is already on the assembly line.

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk

 

[ToddTheMetalGod]

Of course. Companies often dump expenses into researching new products that are inferior rather than just leaving the superior model that is already on the assembly line.

I think most of their goal is to beat other headphones/equipment in their estimated retail price range while keeping costs as low as possible. We have to remember that even in a niche market upper management in a company will put stress on the engineers to meet an extremely low total manufacturing/labour cost.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I think most of their goal is to beat other headphones/equipment in their estimated retail price range while keeping costs as low as possible. We have to remember that even in a niche market upper management in a company will put stress on the engineers to meet an extremely low total manufacturing/labour cost.

 
Realize how dirt cheap raw materials are. Unless you're accusing brands like AKG and Sony of simply stripping away at the manufacturing process and calling it a new version it would be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper just to not change what the plant is doing. No more R&D, no testing phases, no fresh marketing, no new data in the assembly computers, no new instructions to the people in the plant. 
 
I believe this is why sennheiser hasn't made much "new" on their flagship line save the occasional minor update. It saves cost.

 

[jk47]

anyone here think their ears have a flat frequency response?  how would you measure it?  at the hair cells? at the acoustic nerve? at temporal cortex? by audiogram?  just askin'.
 
i happen to have a little high frequency hearing loss.  should i want a headphone with a flat frequency response?  or are the best headphones defined by the flat frequency response, and i should just adjust the eq?  or is the best sound just accepting less high frequency sound?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  anyone here think their ears have a flat frequency response?  how would you measure it?  at the hair cells? at the acoustic nerve? at temporal cortex? by audiogram?  just askin'.
 
i happen to have a little high frequency hearing loss.  should i want a headphone with a flat frequency response?  or are the best headphones defined by the flat frequency response, and i should just adjust the eq?  or is the best sound just accepting less high frequency sound?

 
NO one has a flat frequency response. Via good ol' fashioned human evolution we do not hear all frequencies at the same strength. We pick up on frequencies associated with human speech more easily and bass tones need more power to sound as "loud", just for starters. There are spikes and drops in how we perceive volume, and that's why all headphones get all weird and squiggly at the high range. That's not an accident. They're trying to keep the crispness but avoid it being piercing. 

 

[ToddTheMetalGod]

Realize how dirt cheap raw materials are. Unless you're accusing brands like AKG and Sony of simply stripping away at the manufacturing process and calling it a new version it would be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper just to not change what the plant is doing. No more R&D, no testing phases, no fresh marketing, no new data in the assembly computers, no new instructions to the people in the plant. 

I believe this is why sennheiser hasn't made much "new" on their flagship line save the occasional minor update. It saves cost.

I'm not saying the companies don't try, obviously they do or they wouldn't be at the top of the market. But sometimes you would be shocked where they either neglected small details (such as cup damping, or in speakers some bracing or high quality baffles).

My $600 Paradigm had resonances in the upper midrange cured by simply lining the walls with wool, and this is a speaker company respected by many and that has models over $1000. They're by no means the best, but they are up there with Polk, Wharfedale, PSB, etc.

Either we can say that they were attempting to purposely lower the sound quality of their lower end models to make their higher end speakers look better, they neglected proper research into their design (I doubt this), or they cheaped out on materials. Honestly, I'm 90% sure it is the first... because it makes the most sense unfortunate as it is. It's not a perfect world, as much as I wish it were. Don't get me wrong, these are good speakers and designed as well as the rest at the price... but it's kind of a disappointment that better damping and some bracing (there is none) isn't included in the manufacture.

 

[ToddTheMetalGod]

anyone here think their ears have a flat frequency response?  how would you measure it?  at the hair cells? at the acoustic nerve? at temporal cortex? by audiogram?  just askin'.

i happen to have a little high frequency hearing loss.  should i want a headphone with a flat frequency response?  or are the best headphones defined by the flat frequency response, and i should just adjust the eq?  or is the best sound just accepting less high frequency sound?

Flat frequency response means that it is reproducing it exactly as recorded. If you listen to an instrument it has a "flat/unchanged" response just like a flat headphone does. Do instruments change to compensate your hearing? No, they sound "flat/unchanged" because that is how it is intended to sound. When you go to a concert do you tell them to turn up 6-7 kHz because your hearing has less volume there? No, because then the instrument would be coloured, just like coloured headphones are.

Edit: That sounded way more serious and mean than I thought, sorry. I'm tired and interpreted your post as hating on the people striving for flat response. That is a trend on this forum of people that don't understand what "flat" response means. And yes, an audio gram will tell you what you need to know. My hearing stops at 14 kHz but is tested "perfect" from 250 Hz to 8 kHz by an audiologist. I noticed a trough and valley in my response on the chart, but this is normal so I wasn't concerned.

 

[QuarterToNine]

I'm pretty damn happy with my LCD-2 Fazor.

 

[AyeVeeN]

From my brief auditioning (and out of a Note 3), my end-game headphone seems (and has seemed to be for the past 4 years) to be the HD 650.. except for the fact I don't want to buy it because 1) don't want to pay $425+ for it when I first saw it at like $325 years ago and 2) the issues with its paint and headband. If they revamp it so it doesn't have those issues, I'd probably be happy to pay $425+ for it. Has everything I want; liquid mids, impactful / textured but not bass-head level / overbearing bass, neutral to rolled-off highs, and a soundstage. HE-400s are missing 2 qualities sadly.
 
Wanted LCD2.2's too but doubt I'd like them too much, especially considering it's price, due to it sounding more closed apparently and because it's a brick.

 

[Kaizer-J]

I hav

I'm pretty damn happy with my LCD-2 Fazor.

Same here... After dabbling with quite a few headphones and IEMs, I may have settled on what i can call my 'endgame' setup:

LCD-2 Fazor + Audio-GD NFB-28 DAC/Amp combo = Audio nirvana

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  From my brief auditioning (and out of a Note 3), my end-game headphone seems (and has seemed to be for the past 4 years) to be the HD 650.. except for the fact I don't want to buy it because 1) don't want to pay $425+ for it when I first saw it at like $325 years ago and 2) the issues with its paint and headband. If they revamp it so it doesn't have those issues, I'd probably be happy to pay $425+ for it. Has everything I want; liquid mids, impactful / textured but not bass-head level / overbearing bass, neutral to rolled-off highs, and a soundstage. HE-400s are missing 2 qualities sadly.
 
Wanted LCD2.2's too but doubt I'd like them too much, especially considering it's price, due to it sounding more closed apparently and because it's a brick.

 
It's a shame that little things like paint and how much you saw it on a fluke sale are preventing you from getting the audio experience you so clearly desire. 

 

[AyeVeeN]

   
It's a shame that little things like paint and how much you saw it on a fluke sale are preventing you from getting the audio experience you so clearly desire. 

 
Yeah. The price is not so much a concern since I can pick it up for ~$390 new total (but I'm also 18 so every dollar less helps since I don't work), but the perfectionist in me hates the headband and paint issues. I like to keep my stuff as new as possible and I therefore baby my equipment. Can't justify the price when it has those issues that will make me regret buying it.

 

[jk47]

Flat frequency response means that it is reproducing it exactly as recorded. If you listen to an instrument it has a "flat/unchanged" response just like a flat headphone does. Do instruments change to compensate your hearing? No, they sound "flat/unchanged" because that is how it is intended to sound. When you go to a concert do you tell them to turn up 6-7 kHz because your hearing has less volume there? No, because then the instrument would be coloured, just like coloured headphones are.

Edit: That sounded way more serious and mean than I thought, sorry. I'm tired and interpreted your post as hating on the people striving for flat response. That is a trend on this forum of people that don't understand what "flat" response means. And yes, an audio gram will tell you what you need to know. My hearing stops at 14 kHz but is tested "perfect" from 250 Hz to 8 kHz by an audiologist. I noticed a trough and valley in my response on the chart, but this is normal so I wasn't concerned.

no problem.  i wasn't hating on people striving for flat response, i was just saying that it's kind of a will-o'-the-wisp ghostly idea that doesn't mean a lot when it comes to what you hear.  our ears aren't the same, our sound processing isn't the same.  there is  no objective measure that will serve us all equally.  so yes, get the specs. and yes, look at the response curve.  but don't get carried away with the numbers.  their significance and utility is limited.