[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

He told me that the ladder one has mechanical noise among the steps so he stopped making them.

 
That's weird.
 
It making mechanical noise shouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with how the resistors are wired up. The mechanics would be identical in either case.
 
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[jdkJake]

Thanks. Yup. That's what I was afraid of. Pity he had to fall for the mythology of the "shunt" attenuator. It's such a beautiful unit otherwise (the round, surface mount version that is).
 
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Forgive my ignorance, but, what is the mythology surrounding a shunt attenuator? I take it you are not too fond of them?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Forgive my ignorance, but, what is the mythology surrounding a shunt attenuator? I take it you are not too fond of them?

Shunt attenuators were borne of the wholly erroneous notion that the "signal path" comprises only the series elements in a circuit. Shunt elements aren't considered part of the "signal path" because they just go to ground typically.
 
So based on this, the idea is that instead of using a whole bunch of expensive, high quality resistors, you use just one very high quality series resistor and then you can use lower quality resistors for the shunt portion because, according to the mythology, they're not in the "signal path" and therefore can have little or no effect on the signal.
 
However nothing could be further from the truth.
 
The SIGNAL is in fact the voltage drop across the SHUNT resistor(s) as a consequence of the current flowing through it/them. Which means that their quality is every bit as important, if not more so than the series resistor.
 
In other words, a shunt attenuator ONLY makes sense within the context of the mythology about the "signal path." When you look at them in the context of how things really are, they make absolutely no sense at all and come with a couple of drawbacks that you don't have with a regular potentiometer style attenuator.
 
First, because of the fixed series resistor, even with the attenuator turned all the way up, you're still left with some attenuation due to the voltage divider created between the fixed series resistor and the variable shunt resistor.
 
Second, the input resistance changes depending on volume setting.
 
You can eliminate both of those and get the same performance with a ladder type attenuator.
 
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[jdkJake]

Okay, I see your point. Thank you very much for the explanation.

In this case, I would assume, and I may be completely wrong, that with the SMD version the series resistors and the shunt resistors are probably of the same type and quality. so, that might be somewhat of a non-issue only to the point in that the resistors are more or less equivalent. In other words, it can get no better nor no worse as the components are equal. Whether that is good or bad is left to the listener I suppose.

If you will indulge me, why is the change of input resistance upon volume change an issue? Is that not the point?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

If you will indulge me, why is the change of input resistance upon volume change an issue? Is that not the point?

It really wouldn't be an issue for many, but for me, I use input transformers and I prefer to load my input transformers with their ideal load, and not have it change with volume setting.
 
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[jdkJake]

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Looks like I need to learn how a ladder attenuator works to understand how it avoids the change in resistance.

Off to the books....

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Looks like I need to learn how a ladder attenuator works to understand how it avoids the change in resistance.

Off to the books....

Just keep in mind that a ladder attenuator works fundamentally the exact same way as a potentiometer.
 
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[PersonAE]

My Reply to Steve Eddy is:
 
I gave up long ago on active preamps and have been an enthusiast of passives for a long time and have owned quite a few of them as well as the plug-in attenuators and RCA jacks with a single resistor soldered in.  I presently own the finest passive preamp on the market, the Reference Line Preeminence II [RL].   Your statement on the sonic issues a shunt approach, which is what the RL uses "VOSA" don't exist:
 
"First, because of the fixed series resistor, even with the attenuator turned all the way up, you're still left with some attenuation due to the voltage divider created between the fixed series resistor and the variable shunt resistor.
 
Second, the input resistance changes depending on volume setting.
 
You can eliminate both of those and get the same performance with a ladder type attenuator"
 
I know several RL owners that have given up expensive Convergent Audio Technoloy pre; First Sound active and passive preamps; Jeff Rowland etc. I don't know what you've been listening to and it's commendable that you do listen a lot but I would give the RL a listen before making up your mind.
 
This is a hobby for me.  When the exploration and discovery stops so does the enjoyment and what else do I have to do between waiting for earthquakes and tropical storms.  I have read the entire post on Khozmo Atten. and found it interesting but I've ordered a pair of mono and plan to find out for myself.  Like anything else, you just can't throw parts in a box and expect them to produce magic.  I have tons of documentation on various approaches to passives using shunt.
 
Just have fun, be glad we can all hear and think what it would be like if we couldn't.
Best regards,
 

 

[Iniamyen]

I'll just leave this here:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchoff%27s_voltage_law#Kirchhoff.27s_voltage_law_.28KVL.29

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

My Reply to Steve Eddy is:
 
 Your statement on the sonic issues a shunt approach, which is what the RL uses "VOSA" don't exist:
 

I didn't say anything about "sonic issues." I was simply speaking of the physical nature of the shunt type attenuator. What a particular individual's subjective experience is is another matter. You can say they sound great to you, and I'm sure that's your experience. But it doesn't change the facts of their physical nature.
 
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[vvs_75]

I really like this one. My BH custom knob way too heavy for the DACT to handle it.
Is this the  latest version or you need to request with the wires? Their order page have no picture or option that I can see.  

 
Quote:

 

 

[Lil' Knight]

It is the latest version and the wires are soldered inside by them. You have to specify them the exact length you need when you order from them. For short wires, they will use solid silver wires; solid copper for longer ones.

 

[vvs_75]

[size=10pt]Just got mine today. The finish has few scuffs and imperfections, which is not big deal really. The shaft action is just right, not as tight as I expected and not as loose (smooth) as on DACT or [/size][size=10pt]GOLD[/size][size=10pt] point, which is a good thing. The mechanical steps clicks are firm and quieter than I thought they  would be. [/size]
 
[size=10pt]My wires about 30 " and they appears to be solid silver. The only problem there was no wiring diagram included, so have no idea which wires IN or OUT.[/size]
[size=10pt] All in all I am quite happy with it for now, but have to wait a bit to actually see how it sounds. [/size]
 
[size=10pt][/size]

 

[pabbi1]

What is the lead time for these?

 

[jdkJake]

The only problem there was no wiring diagram included, so have no idea which wires IN or OUT

I would still send an email to Arek at Khozmo to confirm, but, mine was wired:

BLUE- In
RED  - Out
BLACK - Gnd