[doping panda]

I have been considering buying some nearfield monitors for a few months now. My room has been the single thing preventing me from purchasing a set. My listening environment would be a small, untreated bedroom shared by two people. I don't have measuring tape so I can't provide a precise measurement of my room size, but I would estimate it to be 10x9. Due to the size of the room, nearfield listening is the best, possibly only feasible, option if I were to buy speakers. Although my room may be large enough for nearfield monitors, I'm ignorant as to whether or not it is acoustically sound to have nearfields in my room. Since I was looking mainly into active studio monitors, almost all of views I have about room interactions come from the pro front. These views regard room interactions as extremely important, near or equal in importance to the speakers themselves. Because of this, some claim that one ought not to buy high quality monitors unless one has a properly treated room. I've even read an anecdote claiming a Behringer monitor in a well treated room was superior to ADAM A7, a much higher quality monitor, in an untreated room. Of course, personal taste may partially account for that claim, but it doesn't alleviate my worries about not having a room that is acoustically appropriate for monitors. Such an anecdote deters me from buying monitors despite that I've been wanting a pair for months. Of course, I can buy room treatments, but I'm not sure how well I can treat my room. Even assuming I can treat my room well, the cost of doing so may mean I won't have enough money to buy a pair of monitors that I really want. Is one's listening environment really so crucial to the perceived sound quality of nearfield monitors? Ought one not to buy a high quality monitor until one has an acoustically sound room?

 

[grawk]

paragraph formatting is your friend.

That said, room interaction is extremely important, but nearfield listening solves most of that.

 

[krmathis]

I say it is very important.
* Dimensions of the room (length, width, height).
* Dampening of the room.
* Speaker and listening position placement in the room.

You do not want sound reflections to reach your ears, just direct sound from the speakers. The speakers need a certain amount of air behind and beside them to sound their best as well.
A lot to take into consideration really...

 

[DeusEx]

As important as a good IEM fit if not more. xD

 

[Sherwood]

As Grawk said above, if you're listening nearfield it doesn't matter. Keep in mind, though, true nearfield is really pretty close. A legit nearfield setup has your head and the two speakers forming an equilateral traingle with about three feet between each corner. I'd recommend getting a tape measure. for real.

 

[Alwayswantmore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by doping panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have been considering buying some nearfield monitors for a few months now. My room has been the single thing preventing me from purchasing a set. My listening environment would be a small, untreated bedroom shared by two people. I don't have measuring tape so I can't provide a precise measurement of my room size, but I would estimate it to be 10x9. Due to the size of the room, nearfield listening is the best, possibly only feasible, option if I were to buy speakers. Although my room may be large enough for nearfield monitors, I'm ignorant as to whether or not it is acoustically sound to have nearfields in my room. Since I was looking mainly into active studio monitors, almost all of views I have about room interactions come from the pro front. These views regard room interactions as extremely important, near or equal in importance to the speakers themselves. Because of this, some claim that one ought not to buy high quality monitors unless one has a properly treated room. I've even read an anecdote claiming a Behringer monitor in a well treated room was superior to ADAM A7, a much higher quality monitor, in an untreated room. Of course, personal taste may partially account for that claim, but it doesn't alleviate my worries about not having a room that is acoustically appropriate for monitors. Such an anecdote deters me from buying monitors despite that I've been wanting a pair for months. Of course, I can buy room treatments, but I'm not sure how well I can treat my room. Even assuming I can treat my room well, the cost of doing so may mean I won't have enough money to buy a pair of monitors that I really want. Is one's listening environment really so crucial to the perceived sound quality of nearfield monitors? Ought one not to buy a high quality monitor until one has an acoustically sound room?

I'm using nearfield Omega single-driver monitors and an Omega sub in a spare bedroom. I listen nearfield -- speakers are wider apart than I am in front of them. And I have number of bass traps as well as first reflection points covered with GIK acoustical treatment. Recommendations:

1.) In a small room, with monitors, nearfield will probably be your best bet
2.) Stand (or better yet, sit) in the room in the candidate listening position. Clap your hands. Try talking to a friend. In my room the acoustic problems were obvious. Hand claps had about a 2 second decay. Even normal speech had a weird sound / echo. So I knew my room sucked.
3.) There is a very helpful acoustics Circle on AudioCircle.com. Provide room dimensions and equipment, and several vendors and a number of DIY'ers will help. I went with GIK which manufactures a nice product for a reasonable price. DIY if you’re up to it might be even cheaper.
4.) My treated room sounds great. Less the help to set up the speakers / room from AudioCircle and the addition of GIK sound treatments, I'd be better off with good headphones. Now with Omega Super 6 single driver speakers & Deep Hemp sub, and RWA amp DAC and tube preamp, no headphone on the market stands a chance to outperform what I hear from my 2 channel system in my small room.
5.) Check out Omega Loudspeakers (also on AudioCircle) for a good value in speakers. I've owned dozens of speakers over the years. Dollar for dollar Omega's are truely amazing. The Super 6 are my second set of Omegas. I would need of ton of money to find a speaker worthy of considering an upgrade. Read user comments on the Omega Circle. Louis does no marketing or promotion. The followers you see are strickly word of mouth recommendations from a very avid fan base, of which I'm proud to say I am one. If you are interested in his product give Louis a call. He is very honest and dedicated to his craft.
6.) Don't underestimate the value of a properly treated room.

Good luck. Kent

 

[doping panda]

Okay, thanks for the replies everyone. I think I will invest in a pair of speakers after all. Now, I just need to figure out what speakers to get.

 

[BobMcN]

Room-speaker interaction is probably 90% of the audiophile problem. The rest is component matching. But even if you're listening nearfield you will have to worry about speaker positioning, proximity to the front and side walls, and maybe some dampening behind the speakers themselves. Of course you don't HAVE to do any of this, but if you're looking for the best sound you may find that these kinds of things help.

 

[shaizada]

Nearfield listening or not....room is an easy 40% to 60% of the sound quality. My setup is nearfield as well. Sound doesn't start from the speaker and just end at your ear. There is ambience retrieval, reflected sounds from the walls and objects that your ear picks up as well. There is a collection of inflated bass in the corners of the room (simply walk to a room corner and see how the sound changes there...bass is boomier). That is ALL information that your brain has to process. Please, don't underestimate room treatments.

If you need to convince yourself, put up some carpets on the right and left walls between you and your speaker. Put another in the middle. Stack up some pillows in the corners of the room from the floor to as high as you can. This way you can see that there is ACTUALLY a difference in the sound. This isn't meant to replace PROPER room treatments, but at least give you an idea of the difference in sound.

That said, once you got the room treated (I have 21 different treatment panels in my room), you can really hear what the actual system is doing. Most people have no idea what their speaker rig REALLY sounds like. You HAVE to deal with the room.

 

[robm321]

Since you have square dimensions OP, I would highly recommend a diagonal set up. That's where you place the speakers in the middle of the wall rather than the corner. You sit facing the corner.

I was in your same situation, and it was the only way to minimize reflections and other issues without a lot of treatment.

Decware has a great write up which talks about this further - here - if your interested.

 

[koven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaizada /img/forum/go_quote.gif That said, once you got the room treated (I have 21 different treatment panels in my room), you can really hear what the actual system is doing. Most people have no idea what their speaker rig REALLY sounds like. You HAVE to deal with the room.

Off topic but any pics of your setup? What speakers are you running?

 

[doping panda]

This is a simple diagram of my room. There's no actual measurements yet since I don't have a tape measure right now, but I can provide them on Monday or so. I can move my desk back a few feet from the wall so there wouldn't be a problem with having enough room behind the speakers. The speakers would have a good amount of space away from the side walls as well. There might be some problems with reflection points from my bed, my roommate's bed, and the plastic drawers though. Would it be feasible to treat this room or not?



Quote:

Originally Posted by shaizada /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nearfield listening or not....room is an easy 40% to 60% of the sound quality. My setup is nearfield as well. Sound doesn't start from the speaker and just end at your ear. There is ambience retrieval, reflected sounds from the walls and objects that your ear picks up as well. There is a collection of inflated bass in the corners of the room (simply walk to a room corner and see how the sound changes there...bass is boomier). That is ALL information that your brain has to process. Please, don't underestimate room treatments. If you need to convince yourself, put up some carpets on the right and left walls between you and your speaker. Put another in the middle. Stack up some pillows in the corners of the room from the floor to as high as you can. This way you can see that there is ACTUALLY a difference in the sound. This isn't meant to replace PROPER room treatments, but at least give you an idea of the difference in sound. That said, once you got the room treated (I have 21 different treatment panels in my room), you can really hear what the actual system is doing. Most people have no idea what their speaker rig REALLY sounds like. You HAVE to deal with the room.

Would it be worth it to get speakers without a treated room then? My budget for speakers is about 600-1000. With the cost of room treatments, I'm afraid I either have to find a good deal on a pair of speakers I want, get speakers in which I'm not particularly interested, or just not get speakers at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since you have square dimensions OP, I would highly recommend a diagonal set up. That's where you place the speakers in the middle of the wall rather than the corner. You sit facing the corner. I was in your same situation, and it was the only way to minimize reflections and other issues without a lot of treatment. Decware has a great write up which talks about this further - here - if your interested.

Thank you for the link. I will read the paper over the weekend.

 

[shaizada]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koven /img/forum/go_quote.gif Off topic but any pics of your setup? What speakers are you running?

Sure...here are some pics here:

System shot:

Photo Stitched shots:
Front of room:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3686/...mentsfront.jpg

Back of the room:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1627/...tmentsback.jpg

The photo stitching software put a bunch of black in the pictures...those are NOT panels.

DOPING PANDA:
Definitely get a decent set of speakers if you can. But factor in at least minimum room treatments and build it up from there. Definitely get your first reflection points. If the speakers put out a lot of bass, then you should even get some bass traps. Figure the room treatments as part of the budget. You will be shocked how even mediocre speakers can sound insanely good in a proper room.

OK just looked at your room setup. This is going to be kinda tough for a speaker setup for true audio quality. You sure you don't just want to get some really nice headphones like the HD-800 and be done with it?

Ok, if you really DO want speakers, get something that images very well. I'm currently using Omega Super 8 (Omega Speakers). They are mostly single driver speakers and are just tonally superb. The smaller models can work out very well for you. If you want to know more, just email me:
vij DOT gaurav @gmail.com

We can discuss there. The speakers are excellent for my listening tastes. But they aren't the best there is

But what is?

 

[tosehee]

Nice setup there mate. What's the width and length of your room setup as in photo?

 

[shaizada]

Thanks. Room is 24' length and 17' width.