[desik]

I've spent the last weekend comparatively listening to all the IEMs, DAPs and portable amps that I bought in the last months, trying to learn whatever lessons I could from what I hear and put most of them on sale.
 
At some point after testing DX100 with some amps, I switched to DX100 + IE80 with no extra amps. The very second I turned the music on I remembered the volume is set to maximum. I smashed IE80 out of my ears before the ears would get blown out. My ears remained unharmed, thank goodness. The next thing was to pull them off the DX100, but for 1 or 2 seconds the IE80 were screaming in agony, producing crackling sounds. And the amp in DX100 is very powerful.
 
Since then something kind of changed, kind of didn't. The details remained precisely the same. Sound signature - pretty much the same. Yet the music sort of lost all the fun. First I believed I should be paranoid, or maybe I got tired after too much critical listening. But the impression continued during the next days. It seemed to have something to do with bass - in some songs it was pretty much the same, in others it was sort of lacking. Before the accident the music was giving me goosebumps. Now I almost had to force myself to continue listening on my way home.
 
Then yesterday I listened to them again in the morning, on the way to work. I was well rested and in good mood. At that point I understood what exactly changed. The mid-bass remained the same, but the sub-bass got much weaker. The IEMs sort of lost their bass extension. And with it, all the fun.
 
Today I listened to DN-2000 which are amazing IEMs btw, but a tad bass light for my taste. I was surprised to realize that I like DN-2000 more now, while before the accident I liked IE80 much more. Now I was certain IE80 lost the sub-bass.
 
This story partially matches a few other reports on head-fi:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/603848/what-is-the-sign-of-broken-headphone-driver#post_8276023
 
Here HD650 lost all the bass and sub-bass due to a voltage spike in the amp.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/605599/burn-in-messed-up-headphones#post_11507916
 
Headphones got damages during burn-in. Bass was lost, among other things.
 
=========================================
This is not all the story, however. In the last months I was trading a lot on head-fi. And I strongly suspect some of the headphones/IEMs I got had damaged SQ.
 
Case 1. HD485 bought on ebay. I have another HD485 for many years, so I A/B ed them. The ebay HD485 had sound coming from just one ear. From the other ear sound was seriously dampened - less detail, less instrument separation. Like having a flabby membrane. Very likely they were driven hard, one driver failed entirely, the other one just lost SQ.
 
Case 2. DN-2000 vs DN-2000j. Again I had them both at the same time. DN-2000j had LESS DETAIL than DN-2000. While reviews unanimously say DN-2000j has more detail. Without bass rings DN-2000j was very bright. With bass rings they were only a tad warmer than DN-2000, while reviews say it should be basshead-level. Tested both with the same tips.
 
Case 3. IE60. It sounded worse than $10-worth HPM-70. Now after the story with IE80 I remember IE60 gave me pretty much the same impression of tons of bass yet boring sound. They had even more bass than IE80, yet were extraordinary boring. At first I suspected them being fakes. Contacted the seller and I pretty much believe him the IEMs were authentic.
 
I got disappointed in some $100-$200 full-size cans also, pretty boring sound comparing to my old HD485. Here I can't be sure what was the problem, Didn't have any reference to compare them to. It might be me having false expectations.
 
=========================================
All these experiences make me skeptical of buying used headphones, and especially IEMs, in future. Hope the story helps you.
 
 
I'm going to order a new pair of IE80 soon and test head to head with the damaged one. Will keep you updated.

 

[Ruben123]

And? How did it end?

 

[markus94103]

Great post, thanks for writing about this experience. I've never considered this before when buying used headphones.
 
Has anyone done any ABX testing with old or damaged headphones vs a brand-new copy? I've always assumed that a 10-year-old HD-650 should sound just like a brand-new HD-650, but maybe that assumption isn't correct. If anyone wants to try an ABX test, I have a very old pair of HD-650s that we could pit against a brand new pair (I'm in Seattle).

 

[castleofargh]

  Great post, thanks for writing about this experience. I've never considered this before when buying used headphones.
 
Has anyone done any ABX testing with old or damaged headphones vs a brand-new copy? I've always assumed that a 10-year-old HD-650 should sound just like a brand-new HD-650, but maybe that assumption isn't correct. If anyone wants to try an ABX test, I have a very old pair of HD-650s that we could pit against a brand new pair (I'm in Seattle).

nothing is eternal. and yes some of the second hand gears will have had accidents. we can only hope to get lucky and buy to one of those maniacs who took super care of the gear, and then we would say "thank you maniac, you're a model for all audiophiles!"(or something like that ^_^).
ABX of headphones is hard to do in practice. also 2 brand new headphones are expected to already have a few db variations at some frequencies from manufacturing and parts precision. so we could perfectly notice a sound difference from 2 perfectly fine headphones.

 

[desik]

And? How did it end?

Ok, I had the new IE80 for some time. Got the time to do head to head comparison today.
Test setup: Zdac + Soloist SL (the best system I have at the moment), stock cable, same tips on both IE80. Song: Nightwish, White Night Fantasy. 0:50-01:20.
 
Pretty much all my previous observations were confirmed. On damaged IE80:
- Sound volume is much lower. This is the single most obvious difference.
- voice is both more veiled and more mixed with the bass, despite IEMs having less bass now
- bass is also less loud on overall and somehow dirtier. Like a part of sub-bass got converted into mid-bass. just my impression.
- At some point in the music, when the singer sings an extended high-pitched note, on damaged IE80 voice turns into a ringing, like a sirene. Nothing like this on good IE80.
 
Difference is so obvious it doesn't need any ABX. In fact last week I sold a pair of SE-215, and used them for the last day to get a final impression. They sounded better than damaged IE80.
 
Additional:
- I pretty much believe a little bit of voice harshness a la ringing was present before the accident, but got worse after. It was also noticed by the previous owner, and was the reason he sold them. Still, for me they were enjoyable enough. So before the accident old IE80 were already a little damaged.
 
=================================================================
Summary, signs of damaged IEMs, from all my experience from past months, from most obvious to less obvious:
- less sound volume
- weaker bass.
- Weaker sub-bass compared to mid-bass creating an impression of unfulfilling sound.
- less detail, veiled voices
- harsh, distorted treble/female voices.

 

[HiFiChris]

 
we can only hope to get lucky and buy to one of those maniacs who took super care of the gear, and then we would say "thank you maniac, you're a model for all audiophiles!"(or something like that ^_^).

 

 Uhm, I guess that would be me - I'm never placing any DAPs, Amps, DACs, IEMs or full-sized headphones on any hard surface (only soft materials - totally strict with that), am using sleeves to store everything and am super careful with all of my stuff (no matter if hi-fi or different electronics). Keeping everything in as good as possible shape and condition even though I am not planning on selling it. And this goes for everything, no matter if something was $8 or $2000+. My iPod Classic looks still pretty nice on the chrome back because I never put it on any hard surface and was super careful with it. There are just very few light scratches that have occurred from taking it out of the sleeve and putting it back in when it is not in use.
As I know that the vast majority of people isn't as careful with their gear as I am, buying something used is sort of a no-go for me.
I remember when I sold my Canon Eos 60D and MacBook Air ~ 2-3 years ago and the buyers' reactions were indeed sort of like "wow, that gear is in pristine new-like condition. Thank you maniac, you are a role model for [whatever]".
 
 
 
Anyway, @desik, dang, it is sad to hear that story. It could be a damaged voice coil.

 

[desik]

   

 Uhm, I guess that would be me - I'm never placing any DAPs, Amps, DACs, IEMs or full-sized headphones on any hard surface (only soft materials - totally strict with that), am using sleeves to store everything and am super careful with all of my stuff (no matter if hi-fi or different electronics). Keeping everything in as good as possible shape and condition even though I am not planning on selling it. And this goes for everything, no matter if something was $8 or $2000+. My iPod Classic looks still pretty nice on the chrome back because I never put it on any hard surface and was super careful with it. There are just very few light scratches that have occurred from taking it out of the sleeve and putting it back in when it is not in use.
As I know that the vast majority of people isn't as careful with their gear as I am, buying something used is sort of a no-go for me.
I remember when I sold my Canon Eos 60D and MacBook Air ~ 2-3 years ago and the buyers' reactions were indeed sort of like "wow, that gear is in pristine new-like condition. Thank you maniac, you are a role model for [whatever]".
 
 
 
Anyway, @desik, dang, it is sad to hear that story. It could be a damaged voice coil.

My story is more about not listening at high volume. IEMs are likely much more susceptible to damage than headphones, because at the same sound level they are stressed closer to their limit.
 
Headphones/IEMs can also be damaged by amps that don't have delayed turn on circuits. They produce crackling noise every time you turn them on/off. Used like this over many years, this stress eventually produces audible changes in the sound.

 

[ghostnote]

Sucks to hear that, and thanks for the heads up. I wonder if this applies to amps that have a battery circuit as a dampener - like an o2. Batteries should, in theory, absorb any spikes before they reach the hp.

 

[castleofargh]

headphone or IEM, they will have a given sensitivity of their own. so what matters is to know how much volts can come out of the amp under a given situation, and that will tell you how loud the IEM/headphone may be pushed. if you take something like good old SE535 and feed them 5volts(made up value), it will be like asking them to make a 140db sound. they obviously might not like that very much, even if it's a short burst.
my hd650 will stay well below 120db for the same voltage, and actually hard to drive headphones will not break a sweat.
IEMs tend to have higher sensitivity in general, but some IEMs have lower sensitivity than some portable headphones. so individual specs are really what matters. and of course in case of a noise when turning ON/OFF the amp, it would help to know how strong that is. but again it's an amp by amp, headphone by headphone question.
 there is the infamous case of nwavguy and the Shiit storm that came from the guy posting a vid of his driver flexing if you want to read plenty of opinions on the matter.
 
about OP's mistake, I believe anybody using both headphones and IEMs on the same amp/source has at some point done the same kind stuff. it's never fun. after that, you usually make a habit of lowering the volume before plugging anything into any amp.

 

[desik]

  about OP's mistake, I believe anybody using both headphones and IEMs on the same amp/source have at some point done the same kind stuff. it's never fun. after that, you usually make a habit of lowering the volume before plugging anything into any amp.

Pretty much. Now I'm afraid to press "play" button. Tend to check the volume first. And I tend to miss the analog volume controller of my old DAP - there I could check the volume while the DAP was starting.