[zkeller]

I have been in hifi for a number of years but am now looking for a headphone amplifier for my Focal Clears.

So here’s my newbie headphone question: where do you connect the headphone amp? I want to use my LUMIN D1 and Lampizator Amber 3 DAC as source for speakers and headphones. Does the SE output of the DAC go into the headphone amp and out into the Moon integrated line inputs?

Sorry for such a simple question

Zane

 

[Monsterzero]

Unless one of your amps has a line out, you will have to use a RCA splitter, or switch RCAs each time you move from speakers to headphones, and vice/versa.

If one of your amps has a line out, that amp would be connected to the DAC, then use line out to the 2nd amp.

 

[tomb]

I have been in hifi for a number of years but am now looking for a headphone amplifier for my Focal Clears.

So here’s my newbie headphone question: where do you connect the headphone amp? I want to use my LUMIN D1 and Lampizator Amber 3 DAC as source for speakers and headphones. Does the SE output of the DAC go into the headphone amp and out into the Moon integrated line inputs?

Sorry for such a simple question

Zane

The Lumin D1 and Lampizator DAC are both sources. I have no idea what "Moon integrated" means, but "line inputs" are typical with receivers and integrated amplifiers, often the hubs of a complete hifi setup.

So, ... you should connect the Lumin D1 and Lampizator into any line-level input on your receiver or integrated amplifier.

The headphone amplifier has no place in such a system. Headphone amplifiers often double as a pre-amp. However, in a typical hifi system using a receiver or integrated amp, the pre-amp section of the receiver or integrated amp controls everything: initial signal amplification (what a headphone amp does), tone control, and switching between sources and outputs. If you have a true, separate component system and have a dedicated preamplifier - same thing. The preamplifier controls everything.

The issue is whether you want the best listening with headphones, or simple convenience. The best listening with headphones occurs when you connect headphones directly to a headphone amplifier that is being fed directly from a source. Any use of a receiver, integrated amplifier, or preamplifier hub in an overall hifi system will have degraded sound to the headphones. That's because there's more than switching involved in the pre-amp switching system. Switching contacts themselves have a capacitance value that can pass audio under certain conditions. Likewise, there may be filters using capacitors and resistors in the source connections. The shared ground can get contaminated with the signals of the other inputs. All of these things can be heard in an outstanding headphone.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I have been in hifi for a number of years but am now looking for a headphone amplifier for my Focal Clears.

So here’s my newbie headphone question: where do you connect the headphone amp? I want to use my LUMIN D1 and Lampizator Amber 3 DAC as source for speakers and headphones. Does the SE output of the DAC go into the headphone amp and out into the Moon integrated line inputs?

Sorry for such a simple question

Zane

If the "Moon integrated" is an integrated amp and has a Rec/Tape Out, just connect the Amber 3 (I'm assuming the D1 is hooked up to the Lampizator) to an input on the "Moon integrated;" run speaker wires to the speakers, and then hook up a headphone amp to the Tape/Rec Out of the "Moon integrated."

If it's an integrated amp but does not have any Tape/Rec Out, you can sell that, get a headphone amp with a preamp output then feed that output into a power amp or an integrated amp that has a direct input to the amp stage bypassing the preamp (like the external connectors on older NAD amplifiers labeled "Pre" and "Amp").

 

[zkeller]

If the "Moon integrated" is an integrated amp and has a Rec/Tape Out, just connect the Amber 3 (I'm assuming the D1 is hooked up to the Lampizator) to an input on the "Moon integrated;" run speaker wires to the speakers, and then hook up a headphone amp to the Tape/Rec Out of the "Moon integrated."

If it's an integrated amp but does not have any Tape/Rec Out, you can sell that, get a headphone amp with a preamp output then feed that output into a power amp or an integrated amp that has a direct input to the amp stage bypassing the preamp (like the external connectors on older NAD amplifiers labeled "Pre" and "Amp").

 

[zkeller]

Thanks that’s the way I am set up now with my Simaudio Moon integrated. I was hoping there was a more elegant approach because now I have to mute the integrated when listening to headphones and it just seems like a messy solution. I would have thought that this is a common requirement and someone would have designed a headphone amp that switches outputs.

Thanks for your help

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks that’s the way I am set up now with my Simaudio Moon integrated. I was hoping there was a more elegant approach because now I have to mute the integrated when listening to headphones and it just seems like a messy solution. I would have thought that this is a common requirement and someone would have designed a headphone amp that switches outputs.

Using a headphone amp with preamp outputs a one-box DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit won't be that much more elegant as with the exception of some AudioGDs that have a switch for the output out front, meaning instead of muting the integrated amp you'll be unplugging headphones. Either way this will necessitate replacing your integrated amp if not also your DAC.

The most elegant solution though would be to replace the DAC instead with a DAC that has the preamp outputs, like on the Meier DACcord, some AudioGDs, and I think some Violectrics, and your integrated amp with a pure power amp. This way the DAC has both a variable voltage preamp output and a fixed voltage line output. You can hook up the power amp to the preamp output and control the speaker output volume from there, and then have the headphone amp hooked up to the fixed voltage output since headphone amps have their own preamp stage already.

 

[jeffhk]

Hi, I'm new here as well and have a similar issue. I don't want to hijack your thread zkeller, but don't want to start a new one unnecessarily either, so forgive me if I've made the wrong choice by posting here.

I have a Lumin X1 streamer and Gryphon integrated amp, and am looking at getting a headphone amp to add to my setup. The X1 currently goes to the Gryphon via XLR and then to my speakers, and I was thinking if I add a headphone amp I can use the tape out on the Gryphon to feed a headphone amp. Having read the comments here, however, I'm now having second thoughts. The X1 also has RCA out, which I could connect to a headphone amp, but Lumin does not recommended simultaneous connection of XLR and RCA outputs.

So as I see it, I have a few options:
1. Use the X1 as the streamer into the Gryphon and use the Gryphon as a pre amp for a headphone amp
2. Buy a new DAC for use with the a new headphone amp and have 2 separate independent systems
3. Use the X1 as the streamer for both and swap the XLR outputs from the X1 between the 2 amps depending on whether I want to use speakers or headphones
3. Buy a DAC/AMP combo such as Uniti Atom HE

Obviously option 2 is the more expensive, but that's the one I'm leaning towards at the moment after having read this thread. Any inputs would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

The most elegant solution though would be to replace the DAC instead with a DAC that has the preamp outputs, like on the Meier DACcord, some AudioGDs, and I think some Violectrics, and your integrated amp with a pure power amp. This way the DAC has both a variable voltage preamp output and a fixed voltage line output. You can hook up the power amp to the preamp output and control the speaker output volume from there, and then have the headphone amp hooked up to the fixed voltage output since headphone amps have their own preamp stage already.

Along the lines of what you and @tomb are saying:

I use an Audio-gd Master 19 headamp in my big rig. It is fed via ACSS off the Audio-gd R8 MKII DAC. The DAC has several outputs so I can drive a headamp, and my integrated amp. I could use the Master 19 as a preamp. but I don't. All the sources go into the integrated amp via RCA. And some of them also go directly into the Master 19 via XLR.

This way, I don't have extra signal processing between sources and integrated amp, and also not between sources and headamp.

Dac

Headamp

 

[oknenir]

So as I see it, I have a few options:
1. Use the X1 as the streamer into the Gryphon and use the Gryphon as a pre amp for a headphone amp
2. Buy a new DAC for use with the a new headphone amp and have 2 separate independent systems
3. Use the X1 as the streamer for both and swap the XLR outputs from the X1 between the 2 amps depending on whether I want to use speakers or headphones
3. Buy a DAC/AMP combo such as Uniti Atom HE

Why did you drop the option that involves

use the tape out on the Gryphon to feed a headphone amp

as that's the way to go in your case? (as long you are happy to mute the speakers while listening to headphones)

 

[jeffhk]

Based entirely on this comment from tomb above.

The best listening with headphones occurs when you connect headphones directly to a headphone amplifier that is being fed directly from a source. Any use of a receiver, integrated amplifier, or preamplifier hub in an overall hifi system will have degraded sound to the headphones.

But I'm new to this so looking for as much input as I can get. What do you think would be the best option?

 

[chesebert]

I have been in hifi for a number of years but am now looking for a headphone amplifier for my Focal Clears.

So here’s my newbie headphone question: where do you connect the headphone amp? I want to use my LUMIN D1 and Lampizator Amber 3 DAC as source for speakers and headphones. Does the SE output of the DAC go into the headphone amp and out into the Moon integrated line inputs?

Sorry for such a simple question

Zane

No good way to do this without degrading the sound quality in some way, unless your dac has a switch to toggle between RCA and balanced output (most don't).

I would just build a second system for headphones if you care about max sound quality.

 

[oknenir]

But I'm new to this so looking for as much input as I can get. What do you think would be the best option?

Never dealt with a Gryphon amp, but judging by their prices, yours should be a decent piece of gear

The sound degradation from having the integrated between the source and headphone amp is theoretical. Whether you will hear it or not (or be bothered by it) is arguable. But if you are picky enough for this to make you unhappy, do you think that a separate all-in-one like the Naim you mentioned would better the source (that is 2x the price of the AIO Naim) and a dedicated headphone amp connected through a gryphon? Will connection will have an effect that bad?

Well, who knows...

The only way to find out is to loan a headphone amp from a dealer and do some listening with the Lumin connected directly into the hp amp, and then some with the Gryphon between them. You may even find that the latter is preferrable due to the "colouration" of the Gryphon and the additional cable used.

For the price of the AIO Naim you will likely get a much better amp than you will find this Naim.

 

[tomb]

Based entirely on this comment from tomb above.

But I'm new to this so looking for as much input as I can get. What do you think would be the best option?

This:

No good way to do this without degrading the sound quality in some way, unless your dac has a switch to toggle between RCA and balanced output (most don't).

I would just build a second system for headphones if you care about max sound quality.