How come all the ultra high end headphones have all been discontinued??
Apr 19, 2007 at 4:13 PM Post #106 of 123
I honestly don't think it costs that much to manufacture a set of headphones, no matter what model. So I have a hard time dishing out even $300 for a set of cans knowing so.

Coming from the bicycle production point of view (which touches significantly more hands), I know those $6000+ 100% carbon bikes with all Campagnolo record carbon stuff, doesn't even cost 1/10th the retail price. I know, because I used to work in the industry, and dealt with manufacturers, not the company, but the manufacturers. Carbon constructing isn't cheap, and neither is the fabric or resin nowadays, let alone the molds or the labor time it takes to contruct such a bike or parts.

I don't think cost effective is your answer. Your answer is marketing for brand recognition of a limited production headphone, and that's it.
 
Apr 19, 2007 at 4:37 PM Post #107 of 123
Quote:

When did the R10 stop production?



About 3 or 4 years ago I believe. Probably in later 2003 or early 2004. Might have been 2002.
 
Apr 19, 2007 at 4:42 PM Post #108 of 123
I sat down with a pair of Stax yesterday and a fave cd of mine and I dont know what to say,but wow ! I got to listen to them for about 4 songs,and
would love to buy a set one day.
 
Apr 19, 2007 at 4:45 PM Post #109 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I honestly don't think it costs that much to manufacture a set of headphones, no matter what model. So I have a hard time dishing out even $300 for a set of cans knowing so.

Coming from the bicycle production point of view (which touches significantly more hands), I know those $6000+ 100% carbon bikes with all Campagnolo record carbon stuff, doesn't even cost 1/10th the retail price. I know, because I used to work in the industry, and dealt with manufacturers, not the company, but the manufacturers. Carbon constructing isn't cheap, and neither is the fabric or resin nowadays, let alone the molds or the labor time it takes to contruct such a bike or parts.

I don't think cost effective is your answer. Your answer is marketing for brand recognition of a limited production headphone, and that's it.




Warranty replacement IS very very very very very expensive though.... for small and large frame builders alike.Now.... what was that about you 'working in the industry' ?
rolleyes.gif
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Apr 19, 2007 at 4:59 PM Post #110 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I honestly don't think it costs that much to manufacture a set of headphones, no matter what model. So I have a hard time dishing out even $300 for a set of cans knowing so.

Coming from the bicycle production point of view (which touches significantly more hands), I know those $6000+ 100% carbon bikes with all Campagnolo record carbon stuff, doesn't even cost 1/10th the retail price. I know, because I used to work in the industry, and dealt with manufacturers, not the company, but the manufacturers. Carbon constructing isn't cheap, and neither is the fabric or resin nowadays, let alone the molds or the labor time it takes to contruct such a bike or parts.

I don't think cost effective is your answer. Your answer is marketing for brand recognition of a limited production headphone, and that's it.


Let's also keep in mind that direct costs related to manufacture are not the sole costs associated with a product. You are right that brand recognition is the goal; it's just not the only goal...
 
Apr 26, 2007 at 11:07 PM Post #111 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Calavera /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Warranty replacement IS very very very very very expensive though.... for small and large frame builders alike.Now.... what was that about you 'working in the industry' ?
rolleyes.gif
confused.gif




WRONG. Warranty replacement isn't expensive at all. A frame with BOATLOADS of CNC'd parts like yoke, headtube, and chainstays costs about $40 to produce.

xtp20brosshort_02.jpg


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xtp20brosshort_04.jpg


Look at all that CNC maching...expensive? Hardly. I worked directly under the owner of www.bikesdirect.com. As far as volume goes, he's the largest bicycle retailer in the US (world). The owner lives here in Jacksonville, Florida, and I was a manager of one of his shops, which was his proto store, where all his new models got shipped to and sold first to test the market.

I asked him to get that particular frame for me, just one, and he wouldn't have to manufacture an entire run and just plucking one out of the factory line, and I was looking at $200 for ONE shipped 3-5 day airmal from China. Those frames retail ~$1000

Even if you're running a small USA made company company like www.brooklynmachineworks.com, it's still not incredibly pricey to warrant a frame. You're paying for labor and quality of welds, more than actual cost of the material. Yes, it cuts into thier profit margins to give somebody a frame, but a happy customer with a fuss-free warranty issue is more likely to bring you more money. Other companies with crash replacement offers, still make nasty margins on that already heavily reduced price.

And being sponsored by Michelin tires...I can tell you tire manufacturing isn't that far behind either.

And as far as Brand recognition being number one....brad recognition comes hand in hand with an excellent product and/or good customer service. SO it comes on it's own, and is a byproduct of one or the other. The bike company I worked for, no questions asked would just replace the frame. It's more hassle and money for him to research why the frame broke, than it is to just replace it and be done with it.

redface.gif
 
Apr 28, 2007 at 11:13 AM Post #112 of 123
Why have ultra high end headphones disappeared? Because ultra high end audio is difficult to define and the market has shifted to lower-end audio brought about by mp3.

What is ultra high end audio? Ultra high end automotive may be 0-60mph in under 3 seconds. Ultra high end personal computer may be quad core chips with 8G memory and a terrabyte of storage. But how can we define ultra high end audio besides comparing one component of a chain to another component of a chain while listening to music that most people can't agree on.

Mp3 and the growth of portable music listeners are a bane and boom to us. In the short term, people may be satisfied with the ipod buds and the manufacturers are justifiably jumping on this giant market while ignoring us 'high end' customers. In the long term, I believe a large mature market of music listeners will develop as the mass market slowly appreciate 320kbps over 128kbps, Shure and Ety over ipod and no-name buds. As the mass market demand better products, I think we'll start seeing manufacturers bring high end products to market again. It may be 3 years, may be 10. A good guage is right in front of us. How many users stumbled onto this site just looking for 'something a little better' than what they own now?


As for the Chinese market, let me assure you they they're pretty much identical to us. We all dream of owing a HE90 but make do with whatever our budgets can afford. In general, Chinese budgets are currently much smaller than an average US high school student's. Counting on the Chinese market to drive the world market in audio will require some serious economic leaps that I seriously do not see happening in the next 3 generations.

As for Chinese manufacturing, they're great at innovating: reducing costs, adding features, outright reverse engineering. Generally not so strong at inventing new products though. Yeah, there's some real pretty audio things coming out of China but when was the last time you heard of a Chinese break through in audio? But then again, when was the last time you heard of a break through in high end audio from any country?
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 4:17 AM Post #114 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by s2k /img/forum/go_quote.gif
this is business world, even they are good but if they are simply not WORTH for the company's overall cost, then it will eventfully be discontinued...
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lucky I have 2 pairs of K-1000s
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are you listening to the 1st quadrophonic headphone set up?
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 7:40 AM Post #116 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by ast /img/forum/go_quote.gif
may be a little OT, any rumor about new 'super' headphones coming from SONY, ATH, Senn, ..... ?


Rumors? For a long time yes. People have said Sony would come up something new this year. Audio-Technica still has the possible 45th anniversary can up their sleeves. There are always rumors about a new Sennheiser.

But they're all speculations. I would leave it at that.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 9:03 AM Post #117 of 123
My understanding was that the 950 ltd is their 45th anniversary headphone.
 
Apr 29, 2007 at 11:39 AM Post #120 of 123
Quote:

Originally Posted by analog'd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
are you listening to the 1st quadrophonic headphone set up?


Thats been done by several people, Sennheiser, Zalman, MacIntyre.
 
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