How Chord M-Scaler works in layman's terms

Mar 5, 2023 at 8:02 PM Post #61 of 109
FWIW, my Music Hall SACD player has a function for upscaling 16bit/44.1Khz CD to 24bit/96Khz. I can't hear a difference (and that’s the only variable). I'm sure the audiophile response would be I don't have a good enough system, I haven't trained my ears well enough, or that it's a crappy player. What did people know when the first CD player DACs were 14 bit? Well at the end of the game, academic debates about merits of DAC stage are inconsequential when competent ones produce a flat response, and there can be more significant differences in audio with transducer.
A lot of products have an upsampling feature that doesn't actually provide a higher quality filter. So it's functionally no different than just letting your DAC do the oversampling.

There's unfortunately only a handful of devices or tools that actually use very high performance filters.
 
Mar 5, 2023 at 8:03 PM Post #62 of 109
Impedance can affect sound. You need to use the proper headphones for the amp you are using. That has nothing to do with the DAC itself, and if you use the proper transducers, just about any of them should be transparent. IEMs can be very picky about this.

If something sounds different, "better" is a purely subjective judgement and is definitely subject to bias. The best way to determine if something is performing to spec is to compare it to other things that should be performing to spec. If they all sound the same, they are all transparent. If one sounds different, it is probably colored.
 
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Mar 5, 2023 at 9:19 PM Post #63 of 109
The thing is, what is 'up to spec'? @bigshot you prolly outta try some IEMs, they are an eye-opener

@GoldenOne have a good laugh at this graph and let me tell you it sounds amazing as hell (its an IEM I made, planar)
1678069048442.png
 
Mar 5, 2023 at 9:34 PM Post #64 of 109
Every headphone is going to have more differences >8Khz: more phase shifts from the overall designs.
 
Mar 5, 2023 at 10:11 PM Post #66 of 109
Phase in green (my coupler is reverse phased which I just noticed, so 180=0) but..
Yeah, and when you compare other measurement sweeps with one headphone, you'll see the largest shifts >8Khz (those frequencies being more prone to reflections). The "general" signature I've noticed about planars is more bass extension (IE bass is flat going past sub-bass).
 
Mar 5, 2023 at 10:28 PM Post #67 of 109
Yeah, and when you compare other measurement sweeps with one headphone, you'll see the largest shifts >8Khz (those frequencies being more prone to reflections). The "general" signature I've noticed about planars is more bass extension (IE bass is flat going past sub-bass).
the 711 coupler is doing stuff here.. but I modified mine with some microfiber cloth glued to the chamber so it reflects less. You can clearly see this in the phase graph. Im fairly proud of this measurement. It's actually incredible for an In-Ear imo.
 
Mar 5, 2023 at 10:42 PM Post #68 of 109
the 711 coupler is doing stuff here.. but I modified mine with some microfiber cloth glued to the chamber so it reflects less. You can clearly see this in the phase graph. Im fairly proud of this measurement. It's actually incredible for an In-Ear imo.
I'll take your word for it :) My main preference is over the ear headphones, and have a collection since they all inherently sound different (everyone excepts headphones/earphones have different tunings from driver design, baffles, cup distance, etc). I do have a wireless IEM for exercise (Sennheiser Momentum 3). I don't know how good the drivers would be if it were just straight wired setup. The thing with BT headphones is that they're also controlled by driver and app. Even without trying to adjust EQ in its app, I like the Senns sound more than Sony WH-1000XM3 over ear BT headphones I have.
 
Mar 5, 2023 at 11:51 PM Post #70 of 109
I test my in ears vs a studio setup. So im on point, but I get you think im full of crap. More power to ya.
I don't think you're full of crap, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. My point about I'll take your word is your preferred treatment of IEM (IE cloth mods). My point simply was that there's no one target, and we all have our own preferences of what headphone/earphone is best (or if we feel we need to do a mod).
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 3:52 AM Post #72 of 109
Most DACs do an 'ok' job of this, but a truly perfect Nyquist reconstruction filter (instant and infinite attenuation at the Nyquist frequency) would require infinite computing power, which we don't have.
That’s a fallacious argument (the Perfect-Solution Fallacy to be precise). We do not need a “truly perfect” filter as we do not have “truly perfect”: Ears, listening abilities, amps or speakers/HPs.

Furthermore, we don’t need a filter to be “instant” (and that would be impossible anyway), a latency of say 200ms is literally the blink of an eye, actually a particularly fast one (most eye blinks take 300ms). And, filter attenuation to about -90dB is perfectly acceptable/inaudible under any reasonable listening conditions and most DACs, even relatively cheap ones, achieve attenuation lower than that.
The MScaler puts a lot more compute power toward the issue to achieve better reconstruction than what could be achieved internally in a DAC.
The MScaler doesn’t do any reconstruction, it just upscales/upsamples and outputs a digital signal. So how does no reconstruction at all “achieve better reconstruction”?

Furthermore, by requiring a “lot more compute power” to implement millions of taps it has particularly poor latency. And if that’s not enough, it’s upsampling filter while very abrupt, doesn’t even attenuate to -80dB (still inaudible in the vast majority of reasonable listening scenarios). It also seems to have particularly poor jitter performance (although again at inaudible levels). - Measurement source ASR.
Not according to my blind ABX testing
I don’t see the point of that? Of course some filters will be audibly different, especially ones designed to be audibly different, say NOS emulation filters or any other filter with a roll-off easily within the audible band. If you take a decent filter though, say the typical filters used for the last 25+ years or so, a linear phase filter with a roll-off starting around 18kHz-19kHz and a transition band of around 2kHz, good luck ABX’ing these.
There's unfortunately only a handful of devices or tools that actually use very high performance filters.
No there’s not, there’s numerous devices and there has been for years. Of course, that depends on exactly what you mean by “very high performance filters”. I take it to mean any filter that does it’s job without audible artefacts.

G
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 3:57 AM Post #73 of 109
Output that is indistinguishable to inferior human ears. Just because you can't hear doesn't mean other people can't.
Do a level matched, direct A/B switched, blind test with multiple trials averaged and then we’ll talk. Until then, you’re not a reliable witness.

Note: I’m not talking about obsolete NOS DACs or the impedance of the amp stage here. I’m talking about the DAC.
 
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Mar 6, 2023 at 4:01 AM Post #74 of 109
Output that is indistinguishable to inferior human ears.
Yes and to ordinary and superior human ears.
Just because you can't hear doesn't mean other people can't.
We don’t say something isn’t inaudible just because one or more of us can’t hear it. We say it’s inaudible because it BOTH falls below the thresholds of audibility AND there is no reliable evidence that anyone can hear it, despite numerous controlled tests over a couple of decades or so.

G
 
Mar 6, 2023 at 4:03 AM Post #75 of 109
I don’t see the point of that? Of course some filters will be audibly different, especially ones designed to be audibly different, say NOS emulation filters or any other filter with a roll-off easily within the audible band.
Was he talking about filters? When I asked for clarification, he got all dodgy.

The important point is that different isn’t always better. You can enable a filter that rolls off the top, but I don’t think anyone would call that better fidelity.
 

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