[hierobryan]

...the difference in resistance between a single 5ft headphone cable (200 milliohms) and a 1/4"-3.5mm adapter + 12" 3.5mm-3.5mm + 3ft 3.5mm-3.5mm + 4" 3.5mm-4.4mm + 4" 4.4mm-2.5mm + 5" 2.5mm-4.4mm + 5ft headphone cable is only 800 milliohms (1 ohm total)? These are the values I measured.

Whether a high end $2000 multi-strand 24AWG cable or $5 single-strand 26AWG Wal-Mart cable, both will use conductors with total resistances in the milliohms. For a 4ft cable you would need a single strand of 34AWG to even reach the point where the resistance changes by 1 ohm. Even increasing a single 24AWG from 4ft to 20ft only changes it by 0.4 ohms. The resistance change is far less when using stranded conductors. Besides a less "microphonic" cable material, aren't you mainly paying for things that don't affect sound like thick insulation, pretty sheath, pretty connectors, hand soldering, etc? Look at how little the whopping 10 ohm adapter changed the sound for the Truthear Red, which is a tiny 17.5 ohm load: Truthear Red graph

What am I missing here? Wouldn't it make more sense to EQ by a couple db instead of buying an expensive cable?

 

[castleofargh]

Why not EQ for the frequency response change on some IEMs?
_Some still think that analog whatever is fine, while a digital filter "degrades" the sound.
Of course, if the result is EQ in a more or less minimum phase way, it doesn't matter for the EQ itself if you got it electrically, mechanically, acoustically, or with a digital simulation. It's just that out of the non-digital solutions, extra consequences will usually appear (impact on the air flow and distortions, possibly more noise, more FR changes than where we specifically wanted them).
_Some simply still use devices with no or limited EQ options.
_Most have no idea that the likely biggest (if any) audible effect on their IEM is going to be FR, and they instead seek soundstage, speed, dynamic, or whatever subjective concept using the wrong word, that's so massively influenced by FR.

The resistance of wires tends to be what any online calculator gives us, which is silly small, and we don't need to care at all. But the total impedance of a cable is usually significantly bigger than the wire alone (soldering, plug, contact quality with other plugs, interactions between wires with braiding, insulation and possible shielding).
Is that a problem? Usually not because cables do tend to need plugs anyway. But the potential for impedance change does exist, and with multidriver IEMs reaching near short circuit impedance at some frequencies, the sound difference can be obvious. Does it now justify spending loads for cables? Nope. We obviously can get the right specs without spending much. Very fine plugs might be the most expensive and justified part. They certainly don't cost 100$ a piece.
But those who believe in important sound changes brought by cables, can now have an easier time finding evidence for it. It's sometimes sad to see some spend big money for what indeed could be just a small EQ.

There are other things going on beside FR. I've never been a big believer of phase and cables, because I've yet to see something suggesting we're sensitive to the amounts I've witnessed. But under the right, wrong circumstances, crosstalk could become a factor. It would most likely require for the amp itself to have horrible numbers into the load of the IEM(unloaded crosstalk values are meaningless). And under some unfortunate circumstances, the cable with the lowest impedance could be the one causing bad sound because the amp section of some phone or DAP just can't handle a total impedance of cable+IEM that's so low. In that case, higher impedance cable might just be what saves the amp from distorting horribly (until you push the volume up some more). Usually crosstalk and distortions go hand in hand as lower impedance loads favor an increase of both.
Most circumstances that validate sound differences between cables can be argued to be extreme and borderline defective setups. I would argue that a load shouldn't go below 10Ohm anywhere, but that can be seen as old man's talk. In the past, the fairly standard range for stuff to plug into portable amplifiers was 16-300ohm. Now so many of the popular IEMs go below 10ohm that I've stopped bringing up the 3 models that were still a rarity less than 10 years ago. IEM makers have found that it was beneficial for them to have drivers in parallel, and as the transducer is still what limits fidelity, it seems like a logical move to do whatever improves them. But some really didn't stop to wonder how many amplifiers would choke on something like a 4ohm load. Now, everything is fluid and changing in tech, and more portable gear is designed to handle that in a more or less transparent way. But the change in trends did allow for a magnifying of the existing differences between cables. It's just sad that people are being sold almost anything with fancy concepts when, in my personal experience, the plugs tend to have the biggest impact(of course I don't purchase wires with anything but basic usual specs as I'm not seeking sound changes from weird electrical specs in a passive conductor).

 

[audiobomber]

...the difference in resistance between a single 5ft headphone cable (200 milliohms) and a 1/4"-3.5mm adapter + 12" 3.5mm-3.5mm + 3ft 3.5mm-3.5mm + 4" 3.5mm-4.4mm + 4" 4.4mm-2.5mm + 5" 2.5mm-4.4mm + 5ft headphone cable is only 800 milliohms (1 ohm total)? These are the values I measured.

Whether a high end $2000 multi-strand 24AWG cable or $5 single-strand 26AWG Wal-Mart cable, both will use conductors with total resistances in the milliohms. For a 4ft cable you would need a single strand of 34AWG to even reach the point where the resistance changes by 1 ohm. Even increasing a single 24AWG from 4ft to 20ft only changes it by 0.4 ohms. The resistance change is far less when using stranded conductors. Besides a less "microphonic" cable material, aren't you mainly paying for things that don't affect sound like thick insulation, pretty sheath, pretty connectors, hand soldering, etc? Look at how little the whopping 10 ohm adapter changed the sound for the Truthear Red, which is a tiny 17.5 ohm load: Truthear Red graph

Every cable in an audio system is a filter, with its particular combination of capacitance, inductance and resistance combining to determine the parameters of the filter (i.e. hinge frequency and phase). Conductor material, dimensions and connectors affect the filter characteristics. Shielding protects the audio signal from outside interference from EMI/RFI, but shielding affects capacitance in the cable, and anything that impacts capacitance must also affect inductance, which combine with resistance to determine the filter characteristic of the cable. The filter characteristic affects the signal in the cable but can also affect the receiving device, and not just in the audio band. Some downstream devices are more sensitive than others, and some listeners are more sensitive to sound quality than others.

The audiophile cable debate has raged for more than six decades, and is looking like it will never be resolved, which to me means it is not a simple thing. Use whichever cables make you happy, and don't expect you're going to convince the world you have the one true answer.

 

[bigshot]

If it isn’t audible, it doesn’t matter.

 

[gregorio]

Every cable in an audio system is a filter, with its particular combination of capacitance, inductance and resistance combining to determine the parameters of the filter (i.e. hinge frequency and phase).

True in a sense, as no cable (or anything else) has an infinite bandwidth. However, we don’t have any infinite bandwidth signals we need cables to transport, cables are designed according to the bandwidth and power of the signals they transfer. So if a cable designed for audio signals affects anything anywhere near audibility then by definition either the cable is broken or is obviously entirely the wrong cable for the job.

Conductor material, dimensions and connectors affect the filter characteristics.

Sure but then no one makes or uses cables made of steel, aluminium or some other inappropriate material for audio cables or connectors, do they? And, rather ironically, it tends to be audiophiles who most commonly use inappropriate cable dimensions!

The filter characteristic affects the signal in the cable but can also affect the receiving device, and not just in the audio band.

Obviously that cannot be true to any appreciable extent otherwise there would be no internet or pretty much any medium or long distance analogue telecommunications for decades before that. You’re not really claiming that are you?

Some downstream devices are more sensitive than others, and some listeners are more sensitive to sound quality than others.

If a downstream audio device is somehow insensitive (or less sensitive) to an audio signal then obviously it is defective, as by definition, that is the one thing an audio device is designed to be sensitive to! And, although some listeners are clearly more sensitive than others, that’s obviously only up to the limits of human audibility! And again rather ironically, those who are “more sensitive than others” are generally not audiophiles!

The audiophile cable debate has raged for more than six decades, and is looking like it will never be resolved, which to me means it is not a simple thing.

Oh dear, the audiophile cable debate started with the introduction of audiophile cables in the 1970’s and was resolved almost immediately! So, it‘s not even a topic for serious debate and hasn’t been since almost the introduction of audiophile cables, let alone is a debate that “has raged for more than six decades”!

Use whichever cables make you happy, and don't expect you're going to convince the world you have the one true answer.

Of course no one is going ”to convince the world you have the one true answer” because obviously the whole world doesn’t want “the one true answer”. There will always be a relatively tiny number who do not want and will not accept a “one true answer” because the only answer they want is a false answer that justifies some incorrect belief. We see this all the time, across numerous different areas. A similar example: Would it be accurate to assert that the debate about whether the Earth is flat “has raged for six decades (or more)”? Obviously not, that debate was settled many centuries ago, although there’s obviously a relatively small number of (ignorant) people for whom that nonsense debate still “rages” but pretty much only within their “flat earth” community. For science, engineering and most of the rest of humanity, that’s not even a topic of serious debate, let alone a “raging debate”. As this: “to me means it is not a simple thing”, you must therefore also believe that the Earth being spherical/flat is “not a simple thing” and that the Earth is/might be flat?

To continue the analogy; taking your quoted assertion as true, why then does your post attempt “to convince the world” that the one true answer is that the Earth is flat and why would you do that ANYWHERE outside the “flat earth community”, let alone in pretty much the very last place such an attempt would be accepted (a science discussion forum)?!

G

 

[gregorio]

What am I missing here?

Three things:
1. False audiophile cable marketing.
2. Audiophiles’ susceptibility to believing it.
3. The biasing of listening perception that is likely to result from 1 and 2.

G

 

[bigshot]

Ears definitely don’t have infinite bandwidth!

 

[TYATYA]

Im so lazy so here is result I input to a web.
Care for capacitance much more than (regular) resistance of a wire.
Cable comes with hd800s: 0.6nano
My cable 0.048nano.
Not same as resistor which acts linear way, capacitance affect level depending on frequency. Higher the frequency, higher the affection is.

 

[gregorio]

Higher the frequency, higher the affection is.

Then please show us the magnitude of this “affection” on an analogue signal (or the resultant sound waves) within the audible spectrum. No one is arguing that different analogue cables don’t have different electrical properties or don’t affect the analogue signal, the argument is that given the correct cable for the job, that is functioning correctly, the magnitude of ANY affect is well below audibility.

G