[lini]

MacDEF: "They would complement each other nicely, I think." - <grin> Oh yeah, just like a no-highs-phone and a no-bass-phone! <runs and ducks for cover>

Anyway, I'm not much a friend of the normalized graphs, either, because these don't reflect what I hear. Actually these do not reflect anything anyone can hear - only something one might be able to blend together mentally. Not really useful in my opinion...

Greetings & grinnings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Beagle]

OK forget the gawdang graphs, the apparent bass rolloff or
apparent lack of whatever and go listen to some phones that actually do lack bass, like an inexpensive pair of small portable plastic JVC or Panasonic phones.

Listen to them for a few days until your ear adjusts to the sound. Note how the bass stays out of the way and lets the midrange strut it's stuff.

Now, go back and listen to the K501 for a while.

Are they lacking bass? I thought not.

 

[TimSchirmer]

Okay, for the record,

I heared K-501's again at jopi's house, out of a headroom max. They sound *&^$ awesome.

I don't care what anyone says... listen to these with a good amp, they do NOT lack bass at all.

 

[The Quality Guru]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Right on schedule...

That deserves a big fat LOL!

 

[BenG]

Has anyone else compared the 240S (newest version) vs. 501, directly? Tim D?

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D ....and I still truly appreciate my AKGK240S (which I still like more than the 501's)....

(found brief comment from LA HR thread)

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF However, I don't find a measureable rolloff in the low bass to be a "myth." Nor do I find it a "myth" that, empirically, the K501 lack bass in comparision to other headphones that are universally considered to be pretty flat in the bass...

*SNORE* I do not disagree that your K501's out of your amp lack bass. I disagree with the pair that I heard (dcg's) out of my amp lack bass. I do not disagree with the "measureable" rolloff -- depending on your use of the term, "measureable" (and method). All headphones have some sort of rolloff...eventually. That's some nice back-pedaling you got going there, MacDEF.

What I disagree with, is that it is "overt", "glaring", or whatever else you want to call it, that you feel so obliged to point it out as a fault every time this discussion comes up. It's not that bad.

Maybe it was the amp. Maybe it was burn-in (you ever heard a pair of under-burned-in W100's?). Maybe it was quality control. I don't know. All I know is what I heard. And I wasn't the only one:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...958#post176339

I am going to have to buy these and have them sent to you, along with my Kenwood RD-VH7, just so that you can know what I am talking about.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dusty Chalk That's some nice back-pedaling you got going there, MacDEF.

Now instead of rational discussion, we're resorting to accusations of "back-pedaling" where none exists?


Quote:

I am going to have to buy these and have them sent to you, along with my Kenwood RD-VH7, just so that you can know what I am talking about.

Could it be that your Kenwood makes them sound like they have better bass? If you're in the mood to send out the K501 and your Kenwood, you whould probably send them to all other people who share my view first, since I've already heard them with several different sources and at least six different amps. Give someone else a shot.


Quote:

you feel so obliged to point it out as a fault every time this discussion comes up.

I guess another thread goes down to personal attacks

Funny, it must be me, not the K501 posse that immediately jumps in whenever someone criticizes the K501's bass in any way. (Your post in this thread appears to have come before mine, Dusty.)



Count how many people in this thread posted that they think the K501 are missing something in the bass.

Now, count how many people in this thread are being mocked or ridiculed for that position. Ironically, the one who has actually done some sort of objective experiment (even though doing so might have proved my opinion wrong).

I guess being an "old-timer" or having a lot of posts just makes me an easy target. Funny, but I wasn't the first, second, or even third person to bring up the K501's lack of bass. I was even WAY more generous to the K501 than some of the others were, because I think they're still great headphones that are worth having. I also tried to back up my position with measurements, and empirical observations, including comparisons with other headphones -- because I think such a position is more objective and meaningful than just "I think/don't think they lack bass." Yet people just jump all over me for trying to be too "factual." It just goes to show you that in audio, trying to "prove" anything will only bring you grief. Fine, you win. The mocking and personal attacks were successful. The K501 have perfect bass, and no one who buys them on that recommendation will be disappointed. I'll stay out of these pissing contests, and never post on this topic again. Congratulations. Go have a beer and celebrate.

I'm tired of all the personal attacks that seem to be the norm on Head-Fi over the last few months. It's especially frustrating when you try to be fair. It's just not worth visiting here any more.

 

[Tom M]

I've started battle. come one guys this is suppose to be fun. Macdef are you leaving the site? I've noticed you took all your headphones listed in your profile and removed them. I've looked forward to hearing the opinions of head-fiers like you who have a fairly large collection of phones. I've always figured that a person with that many headphones and over a thousand post must have a lot of imformation to share about headphones and audio in general. So if you are leaving don't? It would be a shame to start loosing people from this site because of silly arguments.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF I'm tired of all the personal attacks that seem to be the norm on Head-Fi over the last few months. It's especially frustrating when you try to be fair. It's just not worth visiting here any more.

I find the countless dumb thread topics to be much more annoying than K501 debates.

All these stupid subject like "Which bass player has the best haircut?" or "Which record makes you want to order a pizza or want to strangle your budgie?"

MacDEF, maybe people like you and I should just resolve to stay out of these AKG threads. For me, I always considered the K501 an underrated underdog and consequently always tried to give it props for what I feel it does right.

But I also always maintained that the best proof is in the listening and people will ultimately have to decide for themselves.

Please stay aboard, you are too valuable around here.

 

[Steve999]

I got to hear the 501s at Hirsch's headphone meet, and the bass sounded fine, it didn't seem to be missing. It wasn't strong, it was more along the lines of the Grado SR60s. Listen awhile without A/Bing with other headphones and it could satisfy, but it certainly wasn't visceral. But overall, I do recall thinking to myself, that's a really nice sounding pair of headphones. I'm beginning to believe that it's the overall presentation, the whole package, that determines whether a headphone sound is pleasing and compelling... not whether one segment of the frequency response (such as low bass) is accurate or strong or not. I also think if you listen to a certain headphone enough, and the response is there, but a little weak, you can still enjoy it, with perhaps the exception of peaks and valleys in the midrange frequencies that we are most sensitive to (this is where the cheapies fall apart, imho).

I once left an audio-related forum because I was personally attacked by people who didn't agree with me on certain issues. Was I right? Yes. Did I handle the situation right? No. And so I ended up leaving something that I really liked. And what I have learned since then, in many many ways, is, to be very trite, it's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. Or to use another cliche, I have tried being smart, and I have tried being kind, and kind is better. (Especially since I'm not that good at being smart.)

My adjustment has been not to direct my disagreements to others personally, but to just state my differing opinion without confrontation or reference to anyone else and if I get a little personal barb from someone just ignore it or laugh.

Or if I feel a little more strongly about something, I'll use satire but carefully devoid of personal attacks. If someone takes it seriously and comes after me I laugh my head off, and believe me I REALLY laugh, and leave it alone. I've made my point.

Some people will always be a target because their opinions here hold a lot of credibility, and if someone disagrees, they have to persuade others that yes, believe it or not, this well-known person's opinion is wrong on this particular occasion, to get their opinion across the way they want to. And when that well-known person responds in kind and with a well-supported argument, well, let the flame wars begin. Let's face it, we're all a little nutty here and we do get emotionally attached to our headphone opinions and preferences.

But anyway, well-known-person, your bottom-line opinions are among the very best at head-fi. No doubt about it. I always get a strong flash of interest and being entertained when I see there's a well-known-person posting on some subject.

So I'd be genuinely disappointed if you left.

You're so vain, you probably think this post is about you.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve999 I also think if you listen to a certain headphone enough, and the response is there, but a little weak, you can still enjoy it, with perhaps the exception of peaks and valleys in the midrange frequencies that we are most sensitive to (this is where the cheapies fall apart, imho).

That's the truth. No component does everything right (whatever that may be), but the better ones all have their own strengths. The 501 has a very sweet midrange that tends to bring vocals and violins etc. to the fore. It is a trait that some might find pleasing.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

The 501 has a very sweet midrange that tends to bring vocals and violins etc. to the fore

And therein lies a problem I had with them: the vocals were so real that I kept turning my head left or right to check if someone was behind me.

I had to sell them before I needed a neckbrace!

 

[legoman]

i personally enjoy the fatigue-free akg 501 sound
there are headphones with more bass

that's all i have to say on this one

 

[sTaTIx]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF I'll stay out of these pissing contests, and never post on this topic again. Congratulations. Go have a beer and celebrate.

Hip-hip-hooray!

 

[elrod-tom]

I've been very happy with mine...so far it's the best value I've seen in an audiophile-grade headphone.

Yeah...I hear a LOT of fussing about bass. I'm becoming more and more convinced that a lot of these complaints are source related (oh...gonna get it for THAT!!). Once I upgraded the power supplies to my source components, I had plenty of bass.

I would recommend them highly...

Four cans on a five can scale for overall sonics

Five cans for value