[Redcarmoose]

As both ChavaC and I pointed out to you, they are not superior if someone prefers the sound signature of the headphones they have.

The one factor though is the members in question don't normally end up with a long term relationship but continue to make purchases in a never ending treadmill effect. This we see daily here.

 

[shockdoc]

I'll bite. First of all we ALL hear things at least slightly differently. Witness the endless threads debating the supposed sonic qualities (or lack thereof) of expensive wires or more bits of information on a digital file. Don't discount the placebo effect. Often we hear what we want to hear. For me personally a great headphone brings out all the sonic details of a great recording and makes it very easy for me to close my eyes and imagine I'm in the front row of a concert listening to a musician or perhaps even sitting in the middle of a recording studio while musicians play. Also, unless you listen to a lot of live music, in a place designed for optimal acoustics (symphony hall, etc.) you may not know or remember what live instruments even sound like. Of course that's moot if most of what you listen to is electronic and/or heavily processed or altered music. JMO

 

[limpidglitch]

The one factor though is the members in question don't normally end up with a long term relationship but continue to make purchases in a never ending treadmill effect. This we see daily here.

 
They probably couldn't have done that with really expensive headphones, so maybe they're just enjoying the chase?

 

[Redcarmoose]

They probably couldn't have done that with really expensive headphones, so maybe they're just enjoying the chase?

Part of consumerism is just that, a chemical response the brain puts out after the purchase of a new material item. Also it seems to be in direct relationship to purchase price.


Many of us actually have to wait for the dust to settle, being influenced by the new toy emotions, which hinder the ability to see things for how they really are. Many are telling themselves that this purchase is the last for awhile.


Still there is nothing wrong with enjoying lesser headphones for what they are and what they are not. If anything they help us hear what improvements can do to listening signature.


Somehow we have a hard time quantifying the sound of headphones. If it was easy no one would go into a listening process of changing one headphone to another in minutes trying to understand the differences. We also all have found how much we like one single headphone out of a collection, when only one is brought out on vacation.

 

[castleofargh]

#my-life
when I first wished to get something that would sound good, I needed it portable, if not I guess I would probably have bought a stax because that's what I had heard of as being "the top". and the price of those stuff is nothing in regard to expensive home systems so I wasn't really restricted by money in my mind. 
looking at headfi for portable gears, I fell into a full blown FOTM with RSA amps, stupid silver balanced cables and JH13. I had the money I bought that. if you guys had been talking about skullcandy IEMs into a clip+ instead, I would have spent there. it wasn't an educated choice at all and had nothing to do with taste or expertise. pretty much the opposite, because I knew nothing, I went for the famous and/or expensive as a way to "minimize the risks" or so I thought. when I looked for a graphic tablet I bought a wacom for the same reason, when I looked for a portrait lens I bought a 85mm 1.2L because that was said to be the "ultimate portrait lens"...
 
I'm sure a few people actually know enough to understand the pros and cons of products and still end up with the TOTL, but I wouldn't bet that's most of the buyers. what makes me go for the TOTL of anything is mostly my own ignorance in the matter.
 
 
for dynamic headphones, I already knew most of the old guns, I had fond memories of the hd650, I bought that one day for no real reason, just because the price was right. and nothing else since(in fullsize, I'm still a stupid buyer for other stuff ^_^).
again to me audio is portable or speakers, so I have very limited use of a fullsize headphones, that can explain in part why I don't feel the need to look anywhere else. I didn't get a lcd2 because it's too heavy. I didn't get a hd800 because the signature is horrible to my ears, and I would need too much EQ to make it my own. most other TOTL are too bright for me or just plain uncomfortable, problem solved. so in that instance it's my experience that stops me from going for the "best".
 
I won't pretend like everybody's like me, but I know I'm not alone behaving like that. reading a hifiman, LCD, or stax topic clearly shows that many people have no clue why they bought one apart from "I'm worth it", and end up changing everything else just with the hope to alter the sound enough to kind of like it.

 

[superjawes]

Well shouldn't there naturally be a higher distribution of users on more affordable models? Sure, the HD800 might sound better than my HD600, but that's a $1,500 headphone, and I would have a strong urge to upgrade to a better Amp and/or DAC to maximize the audible goodness.

But even then, you have to consider value. I have a limited budget for all of my hobbies, and while a HD800 might make my audio better, is it really going to make things $1,500 better?

 

[Redcarmoose]

#my-life
when I first wished to get something that would sound good, I needed it portable, if not I guess I would probably have bought a stax because that's what I had heard of as being "the top". and the price of those stuff is nothing in regard to expensive home systems so I wasn't really restricted by money in my mind. 
looking at headfi for portable gears, I fell into a full blown FOTM with RSA amps, stupid silver balanced cables and JH13. I had the money I bought that. if you guys had been talking about skullcandy IEMs into a clip+ instead, I would have spent there. it wasn't an educated choice at all and had nothing to do with taste or expertise. pretty much the opposite, because I knew nothing, I went for the famous and/or expensive as a way to "minimize the risks" or so I thought. when I looked for a graphic tablet I bought a wacom for the same reason, when I looked for a portrait lens I bought a 85mm 1.2L because that was said to be the "ultimate portrait lens"...

I'm sure a few people actually know enough to understand the pros and cons of products and still end up with the TOTL, but I wouldn't bet that's most of the buyers. what makes me go for the TOTL of anything is mostly my own ignorance in the matter.


for dynamic headphones, I already knew most of the old guns, I had fond memories of the hd650, I bought that one day for no real reason, just because the price was right. and nothing else since(in fullsize, I'm still a stupid buyer for other stuff ^_^).
again to me audio is portable or speakers, so I have very limited use of a fullsize headphones, that can explain in part why I don't feel the need to look anywhere else. I didn't get a lcd2 because it's too heavy. I didn't get a hd800 because the signature is horrible to my ears, and I would need too much EQ to make it my own. most other TOTL are too bright for me or just plain uncomfortable, problem solved. so in that instance it's my experience that stops me from going for the "best".

I won't pretend like everybody's like me, but I know I'm not alone behaving like that. reading a hifiman, LCD, or stax topic clearly shows that many people have no clue why they bought one apart from "I'm worth it", and end up changing everything else just with the hope to alter the sound enough to kind of like it.

It is haphazardness on early purchases and late purchases. Early because we just didn't have enough experience to know what really to buy. We made a purchase found out it didn't match with our amp then found an amp and another set of headphones (as you say) because the price was right.

Your listening style dictates that either speakers or IEMs are the way to go.


Still there seems to be a phenomena of folks loving mid priced headphones. Yes, the price of a flagship changed from $450 in 2008 to $1500 + by the year 2012. That was only four short years.

And like you say, due to sound quality factors changing by 1/10th after 3x the price, many scoffed at more expensive headphones.

But your story is exactly like I would guess many others are. In the end no matter what you buy, it's not worth anything unless it fits your lifestyle and after the month long "honeymoon" is over the owner still loves and understands the headphone sound.

Here we have so many buying gear and selling it soon after, as they just needed a month to really figure stuff out.


This is in the Sound Science thread and I guess I'm wondering if there will ever be a scientific way to reduce the general haphazardness we have all experienced in the Head-Fi learning curve of purchases?

 

[Redcarmoose]

Well shouldn't there naturally be a higher distribution of users on more affordable models? Sure, the HD800 might sound better than my HD600, but that's a $1,500 headphone, and I would have a strong urge to upgrade to a better Amp and/or DAC to maximize the audible goodness.

But even then, you have to consider value. I have a limited budget for all of my hobbies, and while a HD800 might make my audio better, is it really going to make things $1,500 better?

The Somic headphone corporation of China produces three million pairs of headphones every month and very few leave mainland China. We can guess with their flagship being $65 that the majority are $5 headphones. Still even in most countries I will guess there are less $1500 headphones sold.

Here I think is another part of the answer.



Even if $1000 extra got the listener into perfection territory, there is a buying group just not willing or able to justify the expense.


Thus, more middle of the road headphones sold (and loved) as maybe that is where audiophile value is. ( If there truly is audiophile value?)

 

[excolatur]

#my-life
when I first wished to get something that would sound good, I needed it portable, if not I guess I would probably have bought a stax because that's what I had heard of as being "the top". and the price of those stuff is nothing in regard to expensive home systems so I wasn't really restricted by money in my mind. 
looking at headfi for portable gears, I fell into a full blown FOTM with RSA amps, stupid silver balanced cables and JH13. I had the money I bought that. if you guys had been talking about skullcandy IEMs into a clip+ instead, I would have spent there. it wasn't an educated choice at all and had nothing to do with taste or expertise. pretty much the opposite, because I knew nothing, I went for the famous and/or expensive as a way to "minimize the risks" or so I thought. when I looked for a graphic tablet I bought a wacom for the same reason, when I looked for a portrait lens I bought a 85mm 1.2L because that was said to be the "ultimate portrait lens"...

I'm sure a few people actually know enough to understand the pros and cons of products and still end up with the TOTL, but I wouldn't bet that's most of the buyers. what makes me go for the TOTL of anything is mostly my own ignorance in the matter.


for dynamic headphones, I already knew most of the old guns, I had fond memories of the hd650, I bought that one day for no real reason, just because the price was right. and nothing else since(in fullsize, I'm still a stupid buyer for other stuff ^_^).
again to me audio is portable or speakers, so I have very limited use of a fullsize headphones, that can explain in part why I don't feel the need to look anywhere else. I didn't get a lcd2 because it's too heavy. I didn't get a hd800 because the signature is horrible to my ears, and I would need too much EQ to make it my own. most other TOTL are too bright for me or just plain uncomfortable, problem solved. so in that instance it's my experience that stops me from going for the "best".

I won't pretend like everybody's like me, but I know I'm not alone behaving like that. reading a hifiman, LCD, or stax topic clearly shows that many people have no clue why they bought one apart from "I'm worth it", and end up changing everything else just with the hope to alter the sound enough to kind of like it.

I'm in the same boat with an amp for my HD650. It's my first real hifi headphones and I know it requires a decent amp but I have zero experience w amps so I'm leaning towards spending a lot of money without really knowing what it will sound like just so that I'm not "wasting" money on an inferior product that I may need to replace in the future.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I'm in the same boat with an amp for my HD650. It's my first real hifi headphones and I know it requires a decent amp but I have zero experience w amps so I'm leaning towards spending a lot of money without really knowing what it will sound like just so that I'm not "wasting" money on an inferior product that I may need to replace in the future.

Bringing your equipment to a Head-Fi meet seems like a way to reduce wrong purchases. You may find folks are pretty cool and will let you plug in. This gives you an idea of what ownership may be like down the road.


The other amazing concept not mentioned yet is synergy. Nice synergy can let gear rise above it's price class. If that synergy sound is also by luck what you are looking for, then it's a match made in heaven.

 

[excolatur]

Bringing your equipment to a Head-Fi meet seems like a way to reduce wrong purchases. You may find folks are pretty cool and will let you plug in. This gives you an idea of what ownership may be like down the road.


The other amazing concept not mentioned yet is synergy. Nice synergy can let gear rise above it's price class. If that synergy sound is also by luck what you are looking for, then it's a match made in heaven.

Oh man, there's one next Saturday in Chicago at AXPONA! I'm in Chicago so I'll definitely go check it out. And it looks like most of the companies that make the amps I'm interested will be there too.
 
Thank you for bringing my attention to this! 

 

[RazorJack]

Nope, this doesn't apply to me at all.
 
I enjoy my beyerdynamic T1 way more any day than the DT990, and don't see how or why this will change in the future.

 

[kramer5150]

For me its the mastering, re-mastering and quality level of the recording.  There are times I don't want to be force-fed every nuance and micro detail... because frankly it sounds bad.  For those times I use my SR60e, SennGrado, HF1 or HD558.  These are all great www radio cans.
 
In the case of the 60e, SG and HD558, its nice that I can take them on a plane or trip and not worry about them getting damaged or lost.
 
I wouldn't say I have fallen love with them.  But they do have their place in my rotation.

 

[Gr8Desire]

For many, it is the satisfaction of getting a bargain. A minimal incremental improvement for $1000+ does not hold universal appeal.  Economists call it: diminishing marginal returns. I call it: value.
 
I will argue that members also gravitate toward tube amps that represent a similar form of value. Tubes cover up many ills - particularly when one or more device in the audio chain is lacking.   
 

 

[Stereocilia]

Search and learn the "McGurk Effect" and the "Rubber Hand Illusion"
 
♫ Hey, kid, rock 'n' roll, rock on, Ooh, my soul. Hey kid, boogie, too, did ya? ♫
 
Check "VALVE BASICS" by Harry Lythall
 

 
This is a very basic depiction of electron flow in a triode tube...
 
Now search and check out the "Dr Quantum: Wave particle duality and the observer!" cartoon
 
♫ And where do we go from here? Which is the way that's clear? ♫
 
First tier, second tier what does it all mean anyway? If I think one set cans has too much bass, the next guy might say there's not enough bass in those same cans, I think blind listening tests are the way to go, is first tier a price tag or a preference for certain qualities sometimes intangible ??
 
♫ Still looking for that blue jean baby queen Prettiest girl I ever seen See her shake on the movie screen, Jimmy Dean ♪