[gerelmx1986]

Hi guys I have a big question since in my next digital audio player purchase (a sony walkman A17) i want to pair it with a portable headphone amp/DAC possible the Oppo HA-2
 
But as you know those things (the amps in general) can have two inputs either ANALON (AUX) IN or DIGITAL IN, some DAPs support also DIGITAL OUT but most offer ANALOGUE LIne OUT.
 
So i've made a little diagram with diffrent lines of colours of HOW I THINK the SOUND SIGNAL FOLLOWS ITS PATH TO THE HEADPHONES CONENCTED TO THE AMP/DAC, they're colored in different colors.
 
so based on the descriptions below and the IMAGE i did in paint

 haha, excuse my drawing skills lolz, which of the possible 5 scenarios I imagine apply to a DAC7AMP that has ANALOG and DIGITAL IN (operated by a switch)
 
A) The player retrieves a song file from storage, the cpu processes it, then the cpu handles it to the player's DAC, the PCM data goes to the ANALOG OUT via a LOD, enters the AMP/DAC via it's 3.5mm jack, gets amplified by the portable amp/Dac amplification circuit and this goes to the headphones.
 
B) The player retrieves a file from storage, the CPU processes it, then it handles the data to the DAC of the player, this goes to the ANALOG OUT via a LOD, the signal enters the portable amp via the 3.5mm jack, signal goes to a ADC to convert it to digital, the next step can either go to the portable amp DAC or to an optional (if exists) DSP CPU (to do fancy stuff with digital siganl processing) and into the DAC, then this gets amplified and into the headphones.
 
C) The player retrieves a file from storage, cpu processes the data, sends the data stream to the DIGITAL OUT of the player, this datastream eneters the portable amp, DIGITAL IN port(s), then it can pass either directly to DAC or to an optional DSP CPU (the cpu then passes this to the DAC) and then gets amplified and into the headphones.
 
D) Player retreieves song from storage, cpu processes it, DAC passes it to player amp circuit, goes from Headphone jack to the amp's Line IN 3.5mm, gets amplified also by the headphone amp amplification circuit.
 
E) Same as case D but instead of getting amplified it gets passed to the ADC and to the DAC or to the DSP CPU & DAC and then gets amplified to the headphones..
 

 
 
If you can help answer my doubts i appreciate it, because i am confused with the amps analogue input, i fear it will be made into a daisy chain like DAC-->ADC-->DAC-->Headphones and as i far i know converting from digital to ananlogue and back again to digital and so on can degrade the sound quality a lot
 
and if you use digital OUT you bypass the DAP's DAC and Amplification section  entirely

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Hi guys I have a big question since in my next digital audio player purchase (a sony walkman A17) i want to pair it with a portable headphone amp/DAC possible the Oppo HA-2
 
But as you know those things (the amps in general) can have two inputs either ANALON (AUX) IN or DIGITAL IN, some DAPs support also DIGITAL OUT but most offer ANALOGUE LIne OUT.
 
So i've made a little diagram with diffrent lines of colours of HOW I THINK the SOUND SIGNAL FOLLOWS ITS PATH TO THE HEADPHONES CONENCTED TO THE AMP/DAC, they're colored in different colors.
 
so based on the descriptions below and the IMAGE i did in paint

 haha, excuse my drawing skills lolz, which of the possible 5 scenarios I imagine apply to a DAC7AMP that has ANALOG and DIGITAL IN (operated by a switch)
 
A) The player retrieves a song file from storage, the cpu processes it, then the cpu handles it to the player's DAC, the PCM data goes to the ANALOG OUT via a LOD, enters the AMP/DAC via it's 3.5mm jack, gets amplified by the portable amp/Dac amplification circuit and this goes to the headphones.
 
B) The player retrieves a file from storage, the CPU processes it, then it handles the data to the DAC of the player, this goes to the ANALOG OUT via a LOD, the signal enters the portable amp via the 3.5mm jack, signal goes to a ADC to convert it to digital, the next step can either go to the portable amp DAC or to an optional (if exists) DSP CPU (to do fancy stuff with digital siganl processing) and into the DAC, then this gets amplified and into the headphones.
 
C) The player retrieves a file from storage, cpu processes the data, sends the data stream to the DIGITAL OUT of the player, this datastream eneters the portable amp, DIGITAL IN port(s), then it can pass either directly to DAC or to an optional DSP CPU (the cpu then passes this to the DAC) and then gets amplified and into the headphones.
 
D) Player retreieves song from storage, cpu processes it, DAC passes it to player amp circuit, goes from Headphone jack to the amp's Line IN 3.5mm, gets amplified also by the headphone amp amplification circuit.
 
E) Same as case D but instead of getting amplified it gets passed to the ADC and to the DAC or to the DSP CPU & DAC and then gets amplified to the headphones..
 

 
 
If you can help answer my doubts i appreciate it, because i am confused with the amps analogue input, i fear it will be made into a daisy chain like DAC-->ADC-->DAC-->Headphones and as i far i know converting from digital to ananlogue and back again to digital and so on can degrade the sound quality a lot
 
and if you use digital OUT you bypass the DAP's DAC and Amplification section  entirely

 
Just because you are using a DAC-HPamp unit does not mean that you are using both DAC and amp at the same time. If it has a 3.5mm analogue input then it will not go through the DAC anymore - that goes directly into the HPamp part of the DAC-HPamp. In the same manner, if your DAC-HPamp unit has an output labelled as (analogue) line out then the signal goes out from the DAC part, bypassing the HPamp section.
 
You are confusing DAC-HPamps with HT receivers for example, many of which tend to use an ADC, not simply because it wants to send out the signal through its own DAC but because it needs to get it through its DSP chip where it can apply crossovers or (room) EQ.

 

[gerelmx1986]

   
Just because you are using a DAC-HPamp unit does not mean that you are using both DAC and amp at the same time. If it has a 3.5mm analogue input then it will not go through the DAC anymore - that goes directly into the HPamp part of the DAC-HPamp. In the same manner, if your DAC-HPamp unit has an output labelled as (analogue) line out then the signal goes out from the DAC part, bypassing the HPamp section.
 
You are confusing DAC-HPamps with HT receivers for example, many of which tend to use an ADC, not simply because it wants to send out the signal through its own DAC but because it needs to get it through its DSP chip where it can apply crossovers or (room) EQ.

so the only scenarios that apply are A) and C) i guess and possibly D) if you use the HP out of the player
 
So as i understood you, the headphoness amps/dacs don't feature ADC

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
so the only scenarios that apply are A) and C) i guess and possibly D) if you use the HP out of the player
 
So as i understood you, the headphoness amps/dacs don't feature ADC

 
That's correct. Unless specifically stated otherwise there is no ADC involved.

 

[gerelmx1986]

   
That's correct. Unless specifically stated otherwise there is no ADC involved.

Thank you very much for clearing my questions out, BTW Happy New Year
 
now will be my own decision to choose between a Fiio AMP like E11 E17 or the soon-to.be-released Oppo Ha-2, the latter one looks so classy and i think it will match the new walkman A-10 series
 
PS: there is no way of marking a thread as closed here on HF?

 

[castleofargh]

see I wasn't lying

 
also be careful when you say amp, you seem to account that there will always also be a DAC inside it. that might be the case for the DAC/amp that you're planning to buy, but you also can buy a lot of portable amps that can only deal with the amp part. so they can only receive analog signal and can only add some gain to it.
 
anyway it may look complicated on your impressive diagram, but most of the time it's only about using the right cable with the right plugs, and as far as portable go (as this discussion started on the A15's topic), there are really very few DAPs that can output digital signal. and those who do often have compatibility limitations(at least the USB ones). you will find many more DAPs that only have headphone out and analog line output. and even more that simply only have a headphone out.
 
 
 
and don't worry for the topic. it will die of natural cause by itself if we let it go. and then some day and archaeologist forumer might have the same question and be happy to do some grave digging and give a second life to it by posting a question ^_^.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
now will be my own decision to choose between a Fiio AMP like E11 E17 or the soon-to.be-released Oppo Ha-2, the latter one looks so classy and i think it will match the new walkman A-10 series

 

If you use an Android phone, go with the Fiio E18. It works with all newer Androids, comes with the right cable (unless you use a Sony, in which case it might be too short), and charges the phone when hooked up.
 

 
PS: there is no way of marking a thread as closed here on HF?

 
Nope, it remains open then when someone wants to ask even a related follow-up question (as opposed to starting a new thread) some forumer will then proceed to make sarcastic comments about necromancy.

 

[gerelmx1986]

  see I wasn't lying

 
also be careful when you say amp, you seem to account that there will always also be a DAC inside it. that might be the case for the DAC/amp that you're planning to buy, but you also can buy a lot of portable amps that can only deal with the amp part. so they can only receive analog signal and can only add some gain to it.
 
anyway it may look complicated on your impressive diagram, but most of the time it's only about using the right cable with the right plugs, and as far as portable go (as this discussion started on the A15's topic), there are really very few DAPs that can output digital signal. and those who do often have compatibility limitations(at least the USB ones). you will find many more DAPs that only have headphone out and analog line output. and even more that simply only have a headphone out.

haha, I knew my diagram would look a little bit complicated

 
 
Thanks to you too for clearing my doubts