[GloriousLettuce]

And how the pro audio gear often beats hi-fi audio.

"Get outta here, kid" many would say.

So.
This might be the case for a lot of other mixers, but right now I'm talking about Behringer Xenyx 502.

I have an ifi iDSD Black Label and a few other amps, and I have tried a lot of headphones for a normy, a very outdated thread of what I tried is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...0-fidelio-x2-hd598-hp150-any-many-more.853475/

So why I think this 50$ mixer beats most amplifiers, let's say under 200$ or more:

-It has a crystal clean sound across the volume range. Whenever I crank it up, it screams "studio sound". Nothing offends me, everything sounds as it should.

-It has an infinite amout of power almost no quality loss upon gaining. This device has literally, an infinite amount of power. If you plug a damn 600ohm headphone, this mixer will still greatly overpower it with ease. Although I have not tested this but seeing the HD600 at unbearable volume levels utilizing, like, 40% of this mixer's capacity for volume while staying clean, that's my conclusion. K712, SRH 1540, HD600, HD650, HD660, HD598, HD599, ALL did AMAZINGLY well without distortion. (Yes, even the HD598 which rattles on so many amps - bad driver excursion or something someone mentioned in one of the threads)

-It's built to last. It's a mixer. And it's a pretty simple device. You can expect these to last for 20 years if you don't fry them by having them plugged in 24/7. They're extremely robust, durable, and built like tanks.

-If you get the Xenyx 802 for 90$, you get the EQ settings for each channel (and more inputs and outputs). Many mixers have eq settings. The as louder you go, the treble and bass are more fatiguing. So instead of finnicking around the software whenever I wanna crank up the volume I gently tone down the treble and bass on the mixer, it''s very easy and takes about a second. I don't have to open any apps and pull the sliders up and down. The knob settings do distribute frequency changes nicely so that the changes don't sound unnatural. I don't know how this works or if I'm right, this was my experience.

-You can balance panning as you like for each side - left, right. Combined with the EQ settings above you can actually play with the soundstage.

-It's almost dead flat. These things are designed to be pro audio, and pro audio they are. It's simply a transparent sound without distortion. It doesn't sound cheap. It can't sound cheap. It doesn't color the sound in any way trying to be "hifi". It's a great balanced loudbox.

-It's a mixer. It can be used for a lot of things, and I use it for a lot of other stuff. I jam along tracks with my guitar by plugging in my Digitech DF-7 distortion factory and I can pan it around, eq it up to sound almost as if my guitar is a part of the track. I can use the device for rehersals, plug a mic in it, do a lot of different cool stuff. Mixers have plenty of inputs and outputs, the possibilities are very useful.

Cons:
-For me this is a pro, but here it is: It's not a "charming", or a "lush", or a "warm" sound. It's dead brutal. It's crystal clear, flat, damn rocking sound. Guys if you like metal, rock, or electronic music, just get it. It will bang your head and the sound just won't offend.
-There's a tiny amount of noticible hiss between tracks.
-Proprietary power cable. (not a thing with all mixer brands, of course)
-Nothing else in my book.

Now I'm not talking about these 1000$+ amps, these huge tube monsters, for the purists - chill out. I have not even tried these.

But what I'm saying here is. Everybody's tossing around these audio brands and wasting their money, especially those who want bang for their bug or are starting out. They're getting these Fiio amplifiers which are RIDDICULOUSLY low quality, shorter lasting products compared to this damn cheapo mixer I'm talking about above. They are cheap plastic toys. Rip-off. How much money does it really take to amplify audio signal without sounding wrong? This is super old tried and true technology already, come on.

Same thing with speakers. Do you buy 200$ hifi speakers or studio monitors? Studio monitors are almost no-brainer, you'll just get so much more detailed, flatter, cleaner sound and you won't even need an amp cause they're mostly active speakers.

The point is: consider pro audio for audio enjoyment. I know some people here do and some mention this exact mixer, but this is so understated in my opinion. These is so much wasted money if you don't give this a try.

You toss 50$, you get:

-Crystal clear flat sound
-Pan control
-Multiple inputs and outputs
-Infinite amout of power
-Ultra durable device
-Multi-use device, you can use it for music work, for jamming along with a guitar or singing over with a microphone

So what are you waiting for? Just try it.
Why are we not recommending these things and putting them on a bang for buck lists? I just don't get it.

As much as I like the 10% increase in clarity of the ifi Micro iDSD BL DAC, I literally sold it for my LG V30 headphone out + Xenyx 802 setup. It is so modular, and I can extract a lot better tonal balance to my ears that I find the old iFi Micro iDSD too complicated to keep plugging in on the phone, the battery problem, the headphone output is strangely colored and overly V shaped and I have to EQ that out in many ways, and it's so damn expensive selling it used is literally a profit for me right now.

There goes my rant. Sorry for the rant a slight clickbait, I wanted to write this a few times, but I haven't been active on this forum much as I was not interested in the pursuit anymore. I got my Focusrite, my LG V30, SRH1540, K712, Pinnacle P1 and I wanna get another HD650 as I sold it and now regret it. I'm not accurate with the technicals and I'm not a guru but I just had to share this opinion and enthusiasm. I'm happy with what I have and this gratitude for having found what I like made me want to inspire someone to try other stuff other than what is generally recommended cause the reward can be so great.

Peace.

 

[Magic77]

Looks like it may be worth trying. Amazon has it for $58.99. I assume I could connect my CD Player into the rca inputs, plug in my headphones and then that’s it. But you also have EQ, Gain, balance etc.

 

[Audi5000]

you're absolutely right.. i used to run a 16 channel mixing board in my old studio... it was the only thing that powered my old akg k240's... however,
as with most pro-audio, correct wiring etiquette is crucial, alot of power is going through these things, and shielded cabling and crossing power lines are a must at 90* if absolutely necessary. not so much with the lower powered stuff we see on these boards.

i'm actually using a behringer interface as my 'dac'. however it alone doesn't give enough juice to my sennheisers.. right now i'm running a 4 channel headphone amp to do my A-B-C-D testing (for personal use)... but even with ferrites on all the lines (including usb)... my phone in hotspot mode in the wrong place generates hums and pulses. there is zero noise, even at full volume (minus when i put my phone on it)

 

[GloriousLettuce]

Looks like it may be worth trying. Amazon has it for $58.99. I assume I could connect my CD Player into the rca inputs, plug in my headphones and then that’s it. But you also have EQ, Gain, balance etc.

Lemme know how it goes.

you're absolutely right.. i used to run a 16 channel mixing board in my old studio... it was the only thing that powered my old akg k240's... however,
as with most pro-audio, correct wiring etiquette is crucial, alot of power is going through these things, and shielded cabling and crossing power lines are a must at 90* if absolutely necessary. not so much with the lower powered stuff we see on these boards.

i'm actually using a behringer interface as my 'dac'. however it alone doesn't give enough juice to my sennheisers.. right now i'm running a 4 channel headphone amp to do my A-B-C-D testing (for personal use)... but even with ferrites on all the lines (including usb)... my phone in hotspot mode in the wrong place generates hums and pulses. there is zero noise, even at full volume (minus when i put my phone on it)

Yea interfaces are already overloaded with features as to give so much emphasis on headphone output quality. I mean it's good and clean but often times not balanced or powerful.

 

[GloriousLettuce]

you're absolutely right.. i used to run a 16 channel mixing board in my old studio... it was the only thing that powered my old akg k240's... however,
as with most pro-audio, correct wiring etiquette is crucial, alot of power is going through these things, and shielded cabling and crossing power lines are a must at 90* if absolutely necessary. not so much with the lower powered stuff we see on these boards.

i'm actually using a behringer interface as my 'dac'. however it alone doesn't give enough juice to my sennheisers.. right now i'm running a 4 channel headphone amp to do my A-B-C-D testing (for personal use)... but even with ferrites on all the lines (including usb)... my phone in hotspot mode in the wrong place generates hums and pulses. there is zero noise, even at full volume (minus when i put my phone on it)

Oh and my focusrite > behringer produces pristine sound.

Phone into behringer is just my bedroom setup when I'm not at the pc cuz I have two behringers and I get to use one for this.

 

[Audi5000]

i dont think this post got the love it deserved .. shame.. i think im going to get this for my other laptop.. or if i can find good enough reviews, the rockville rockmix2..very similar layout, but i like the design better. regardless, i need the rca input, it seems as u go up any usb mixer line, the rca inputs turns into 1/4" line level ts monos.. then that just ends up being more cables to upgrade wbc has already taken enough of my money lolol

 

[earmonger]

The 502 is $40 at Sweetwater.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/502--behringer-xenyx-502-mixer

802 is $60. Hmmm....

 

[kingoftown1]

I don't think anyone can take this seriously because it's so sensational and unfounded. There's nothing in the first post that lends any credibility, and the op provides such limited comparison points that the only conclusion you can draw is "eh, it might be better than a Fiio if you don't mind a higher noise floor".

 

[Audi5000]

I don't think anyone can take this seriously because it's so sensational and unfounded. There's nothing in the first post that lends any credibility, and the op provides such limited comparison points that the only conclusion you can draw is "eh, it might be better than a Fiio if you don't mind a higher noise floor".

why not? sound engineers and studio professionals make a living off creating pure sounds with as little artifacts and equipment generated frequencies as possible... you can't effectively reduce noise if what you are using creates noise under the recording. the listening audience wont be able to enjoy noise free audio if the creators dont master it that way to begin with. between microphones, tube amps, DSP's, ADATs, reel to reels, hard drives, fans, lighting, mixing boards, and a dozen other peripherals, signals 'can' be picked up anywhere, and studio equipment, even low budget equipment is meant to avoid that as much possible.

i think there is a breakdown in communication in the audio world between professional creators and those who just want to sit back and enjoy the nicest sound possible.

your hi end dacs and amps relies on recordings made with baseline standards in the recording industry. if they didnt make it pure, you wont get it pure.

(and almost all of them rely on premium cables.. if you see a studio using walmart brand cables, run ! . . . LOL)

 

[539465]

this is hilarious I have been saying for a long time 2 things
1. not having bass boost or other features on your AMP is stupidity for the prices we pay
2. this board loves buying a bunch of AMPs I think are unnecessary and overpriced.... does it real take $500+ for clean power and good internals?

fantastic post keep it coming I want more

 

[nangJuice]

I’m just gonna chime in here with my own story.

Got into audio gear via my interest in DJing. I play psytrance tunes. Nothing else truly does it for me
The first port of call was to get a mixer, headphones and studio monitors (and all the necessary cabling of course) so that I could start spinning tunes.

And then I naturally progressed down the rabbit hole of chasing better and “cleaner” sound. I did a LOT of reading and watched a LOT of YouTube reviews and pretty much dove into everything HiFi. I was interested in all these different brands and floorstanders vs stand mounts and separate components and oh my the cables…what a terrific hobby! But I got a real wake up call when I visited HiFi stores and tried out my test tracks on several tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear and…holy cow, why are people spending all this money??

Now I won’t go as far as the OP and say that people are wasting their money since we’re talking about subjectivity here. BUT, you might find yourself questioning whether you MAY have overspent when you listen to a bit of pro audio gear. Since discovering that my Traktor DJ controller’s DAC outputting to my Rokit 5 studio monitors was pretty much an identical experience to a lot of HiFi setups, and certainly a cut above anything in the HiFi gear that I could actually afford, I’ve decided to investigate whether the pro audio world really does offer better bang for buck.

My most recent upgrade was to a Motu M2 audio interface. It offers a pro level Sabre DAC chip, inputs for multiple instruments/microphones and balanced and unbalanced RCA outputs for your studio monitors. There’s a pretty decent headphone output too if you’re not looking to drive power hungry cans. This thing just gives me the cleanest, most uncoloured listening experience I’ve ever had. They made my Rokits sound like totally different speakers. Over the balanced TRS output, the bass has tightened and is audibly faster and more engaging. Prior to this DAC change, I had really been feeling like upgrading my monitors to less warm speakers - Rokits are great for the money, but definitely lean towards V-shaped. Now I’m quite enjoying them as they are because they’re the good kind of warm now. Still a bit muddy, but not offensively so. That’s 5 year old studio monitors that cost me $500 AUD when they were new, mated to a less than $300 AUD audio interface. The bang for buck is pretty insane!

I’m posting here because I agree with the thread starter that pro audio is in fact HiFi. My experience with pro audio gear so far has shown me that these are high quality, well built, multipurpose tools which last for years and years. Check out the used market, grab a deal on a mixer/audio interface, and see what the fuss is all about. If you’re into HiFi, you owe it to yourself to at least give the pro gear a go. Best case, you’ll save money. Worst case, you’ll have had an experience listening to the music you always listen to, but through some totally unfamiliar gear.

 

[Fegefeuer]

Motu really makes good stuff, no reason to look past pro audio in general anyway other than believing boutique manufacturing weaves your audio experience with "magic" that pro audio never found out or was ever able to experience and explore despite actually making all the devices that your music is recorded on. Motu, Cranesong, Prism, Violectric, Burl, Dangerous Music etc etc.. All these guys know their stuff and they know about sounding, timbre, tonality, bass lines, detail bal bla bla bla way before anyone felt comfortable enough to speak about "muh headphone detail" on the internet.

The things I have seen audiophiles accept which pro audio "solved" many years ago (member headphones dying when unplugged from amps? still happens here and there) is also amazing. It's an endless list, especially the "Less is more" dogma (that almost nobody can properly explain other than in esoteric terms). They look at all these buttons and think: wow, this definitely makes all my music muddy and less traaansssssparent.

I am also guilty of a few boutique things and longings and it's fine to desire it but it's also important to reseat the experience once in a while and think a bit harder about the "magic" part and its supposed exclusiveness to boutique or "audiophile" manufacturers.

 

[GloriousLettuce]

1. What credibility do you expect?
2. Noise floor looks good on paper, but I doubt most of the "bad audio experience" is ever related to minor hiss and noises. Hell, vinyl enthusiasts welcome it. Good audio isn't about if you hear tiny noises or not (unless they're offensive to the ear, which right from the getgo pro audio never is unless it's broken.

Good audio means good power, great detail, and great tonality, and as lowest noise as possible being just one factor that really isn't as relevant as great as it sounds on paper.

Sorry, I don't need credibility to know something sounds right. Nor I need to show off my lifelong experience in music listening or playing to make a point. A valid point is a valid point.

Again, I'm not saying this sounds as fine and refined like a 500$ amp. But sure again beats Fiio. Sorry it does. Fiio is cheap. Fiio is flimsy and plastic. And it sounds like it.

So my point is, and intentionally provocatively so because of my frustration with overpriced "shiny" products, go buy a 1/3 or half the price of what you pay for in hifi audio and you will get the same value from pro audio. Sorry not sorry.

 

[LucasKA]

I want to also chip in, that I had been using my Q502 USB as my DAC/Headphone amp for my work laptop and it is actually quite adequate, the headphone socket even drives my Susvara....!

(My Susvara 2.5mm maybe a special unit with slightly higher sensitivity, according to the seller, but it is still not easy to drive compare to others like Diana Phi, Final Audio D8000. And to my surprise, the under £100 DAC/AMP drives Susvara well at 12' o'clock volume!)

I bought the Q502USB as a mixer for my amateur synth hobby to mix the two input together, and out of curiosity I plug in my HD800 and boom, it sounds really good, clean, loud enough. It doesn't beat the DAC I have (custom made valve output DAC/Preamp over £3k) or the Headphone Amp (Mass Kobo 394II, also close to my DAC/Preamp), but its good enough, sounds neutral and reference like.

I am not saying that this unit beats everything that I have, but just surprised that you CAN get a good unit for a very cheap price. I don't regret all other purchases I had done.

 

[drummerman1]

And how the pro audio gear often beats hi-fi audio.

"Get outta here, kid" many would say.

So.
This might be the case for a lot of other mixers, but right now I'm talking about Behringer Xenyx 502.

I have an ifi iDSD Black Label and a few other amps, and I have tried a lot of headphones for a normy, a very outdated thread of what I tried is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...0-fidelio-x2-hd598-hp150-any-many-more.853475/

So why I think this 50$ mixer beats most amplifiers, let's say under 200$ or more:

-It has a crystal clean sound across the volume range. Whenever I crank it up, it screams "studio sound". Nothing offends me, everything sounds as it should.

-It has an infinite amout of power almost no quality loss upon gaining. This device has literally, an infinite amount of power. If you plug a damn 600ohm headphone, this mixer will still greatly overpower it with ease. Although I have not tested this but seeing the HD600 at unbearable volume levels utilizing, like, 40% of this mixer's capacity for volume while staying clean, that's my conclusion. K712, SRH 1540, HD600, HD650, HD660, HD598, HD599, ALL did AMAZINGLY well without distortion. (Yes, even the HD598 which rattles on so many amps - bad driver excursion or something someone mentioned in one of the threads)

-It's built to last. It's a mixer. And it's a pretty simple device. You can expect these to last for 20 years if you don't fry them by having them plugged in 24/7. They're extremely robust, durable, and built like tanks.

-If you get the Xenyx 802 for 90$, you get the EQ settings for each channel (and more inputs and outputs). Many mixers have eq settings. The as louder you go, the treble and bass are more fatiguing. So instead of finnicking around the software whenever I wanna crank up the volume I gently tone down the treble and bass on the mixer, it''s very easy and takes about a second. I don't have to open any apps and pull the sliders up and down. The knob settings do distribute frequency changes nicely so that the changes don't sound unnatural. I don't know how this works or if I'm right, this was my experience.

-You can balance panning as you like for each side - left, right. Combined with the EQ settings above you can actually play with the soundstage.

-It's almost dead flat. These things are designed to be pro audio, and pro audio they are. It's simply a transparent sound without distortion. It doesn't sound cheap. It can't sound cheap. It doesn't color the sound in any way trying to be "hifi". It's a great balanced loudbox.

-It's a mixer. It can be used for a lot of things, and I use it for a lot of other stuff. I jam along tracks with my guitar by plugging in my Digitech DF-7 distortion factory and I can pan it around, eq it up to sound almost as if my guitar is a part of the track. I can use the device for rehersals, plug a mic in it, do a lot of different cool stuff. Mixers have plenty of inputs and outputs, the possibilities are very useful.

Cons:
-For me this is a pro, but here it is: It's not a "charming", or a "lush", or a "warm" sound. It's dead brutal. It's crystal clear, flat, damn rocking sound. Guys if you like metal, rock, or electronic music, just get it. It will bang your head and the sound just won't offend.
-There's a tiny amount of noticible hiss between tracks.
-Proprietary power cable. (not a thing with all mixer brands, of course)
-Nothing else in my book.

Now I'm not talking about these 1000$+ amps, these huge tube monsters, for the purists - chill out. I have not even tried these.

But what I'm saying here is. Everybody's tossing around these audio brands and wasting their money, especially those who want bang for their bug or are starting out. They're getting these Fiio amplifiers which are RIDDICULOUSLY low quality, shorter lasting products compared to this damn cheapo mixer I'm talking about above. They are cheap plastic toys. Rip-off. How much money does it really take to amplify audio signal without sounding wrong? This is super old tried and true technology already, come on.

Same thing with speakers. Do you buy 200$ hifi speakers or studio monitors? Studio monitors are almost no-brainer, you'll just get so much more detailed, flatter, cleaner sound and you won't even need an amp cause they're mostly active speakers.

The point is: consider pro audio for audio enjoyment. I know some people here do and some mention this exact mixer, but this is so understated in my opinion. These is so much wasted money if you don't give this a try.

You toss 50$, you get:

-Crystal clear flat sound
-Pan control
-Multiple inputs and outputs
-Infinite amout of power
-Ultra durable device
-Multi-use device, you can use it for music work, for jamming along with a guitar or singing over with a microphone

So what are you waiting for? Just try it.
Why are we not recommending these things and putting them on a bang for buck lists? I just don't get it.

As much as I like the 10% increase in clarity of the ifi Micro iDSD BL DAC, I literally sold it for my LG V30 headphone out + Xenyx 802 setup. It is so modular, and I can extract a lot better tonal balance to my ears that I find the old iFi Micro iDSD too complicated to keep plugging in on the phone, the battery problem, the headphone output is strangely colored and overly V shaped and I have to EQ that out in many ways, and it's so damn expensive selling it used is literally a profit for me right now.

There goes my rant. Sorry for the rant a slight clickbait, I wanted to write this a few times, but I haven't been active on this forum much as I was not interested in the pursuit anymore. I got my Focusrite, my LG V30, SRH1540, K712, Pinnacle P1 and I wanna get another HD650 as I sold it and now regret it. I'm not accurate with the technicals and I'm not a guru but I just had to share this opinion and enthusiasm. I'm happy with what I have and this gratitude for having found what I like made me want to inspire someone to try other stuff other than what is generally recommended cause the reward can be so great.

Peace.

I get what you're saying but the sad truth is that no self respecting pro studio is using $200 active speakers or mixers or ... pretty much anything else other than perhaps relatively affordable headphones and studio cabling. I believe Abbey Road are using predominantly VanDamme for their miles of cabling.

As for cheap active stuff, mixers etc., this is bedroom DJ territory. Cheaply made in in the PRC with the lowest cost/quality materials and often dubious reliability.

I was looking at active 'studio' speakers for home use before my move to Spain and visited my local Pro music store several times. Luckily they have superb facilities with direct comparison of monitors in treated studio rooms.

Let me tell you, your usual cheap Adam's, Yamaha's, Rokkits, JBL's etc sound like absolute s***.

Get to perhaps $700/800 piece (1 speaker) and it starts to get interesting. There you start to find your Genelecs, Focals, semi 'pro' Adams etc. Still nowhere 'professional' level, still bedroom/small home studio stuff but now decent enough for folks that appreciate decent sound for home use. From thereon it gets better and more expensive.

As an aside note, they use RME ADI-2 PRO Dac's in their monitor rooms with computer switching.