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Home-Made IEMs
Mar 8, 2017 at 8:55 AM Post #6,155 of 15,989
Dear DIY CIEM Community,

after getting into all these things the last 2 weeks, I'm really excited to getting started into this project by practising it in the next few days. Reading all the informations here in this thread with over 400 pages and getting through the very nice made Google Docs Wiki, I think I know now a lot of things making shells, faceplates, designs and ear molds, but the biggest part for me is still making the CIEMs sound good from the scratch. 

I know, it's completely a trial and error / measurement and especially experimental thing because the possibilities are endless! 

But after reading all this, I found a few different driver setups here (that has been metioned a lot) that maybe are good to start for "beginners". Maybe some of you can give me your advice - or better to say - your experience to the following setups. 

The thing is, at the end of the day it's a very cost intensiv thing getting the first good sounding IEM just when you had to build 20 difference combinations before. I also want to fill the complete shell out with Fotoplast, so changing components after that is hard to do. 
 
SINGLE DRIVER FULLRANGE SETUP
 
  1. BK-28507 + Grey Damper  / SingleTube
  2. ED29689 + ? Damper / SingleTube
  3. CI + ? Damper / SingleTube

GK/GQ COMBINATIONS
 
  1. GQ + Brown Damper
  2. GQ (No Damper) + CI (Red Damper) - No Crossover
  3. GK: CI (No Damper) + TWFK (White Damper) / Dual Tube
  4. GK: CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (Green Damper)  / Dual Tube
  5. GK: CI (Brown Damper) + TWFK (Grey Damper)  / Dual Tube
  6. GK: CI (Brown Damper) + TWFK (No Damper)  / Dual Tube
  7. GK: CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (No Damper)  / Dual Tube
  8. GK (Grey Damper) / SingleTube
 
CI/TWFK COMBINATIONS
 
  1. 5Ohm on the CI + TWFK (22uF) - No Dampers
  2. CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (Grey Damper) - No Crossover
  3. 10Ohm on the CI + TWFK [0,47uF on the WBFK / 39Ohm inline with cap on the FK side]
 
CI/ED COMBINATIONS
 
  1. 10Ohm on the CI + ED-23619 (2,2uF+2,2uF) - (No Dampers) 
 
 
So the main questions are:
  • Which single fullrange driver setup will sound best from the above.
  • Which dampers are the best of the single ED29689 and CI setup?
  • Will the GQ just with the brown damper sound good enough? How will it work with a CI (Red Damper) without a crossover.
  • Which GK Damper combination will sound best? Dual or Single tube 
  • Will the CI/TWFK Combination make sense, or is it better to start directly with a GQ or GK setup?
  • What do you think about the CI/ED combination. 
  • Which tube lenght's will you suggest for all of this examples to start? 14-20mm?
     

As I mentioned above, maybe you can give just an addive for 1x Good Single Driver, 1x Good GQ, 1x Good GK and 1x CI/TWFK setup or the best combination of driver and dampers of each "category" of this list to start to beginn. I think this and your answers will help new beginners also to get faster into this.
 
Much appreciate it! - Thank you!
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 9:29 AM Post #6,157 of 15,989
senor ciem said:
Dear DIY CIEM Community,


after getting into all these things the last 2 weeks, I'm really excited to getting started into this project by practising it in the next few days. Reading all the informations here in this thread with over 400 pages and getting through the very nice made Google Docs Wiki, I think I know now a lot of things making shells, faceplates, designs and ear molds, but the biggest part for me is still making the CIEMs sound good from the scratch. 


I know, it's completely a trial and error / measurement and especially experimental thing because the possibilities are endless! 


But after reading all this, I found a few different driver setups here (that has been metioned a lot) that maybe are good to start for "beginners". Maybe some of you can give me your advice - or better to say - your experience to the following setups. 


The thing is, at the end of the day it's a very cost intensiv thing getting the first good sounding IEM just when you had to build 20 difference combinations before. I also want to fill the complete shell out with Fotoplast, so changing components after that is hard to do. 

SINGLE DRIVER FULLRANGE SETUP

  • BK-28507 + Grey Damper  / SingleTube
  • ED29689 + ? Damper / SingleTube
  • CI + ? Damper / SingleTube

GK/GQ COMBINATIONS

  • GQ + Brown Damper
  • GQ (No Damper) + CI (Red Damper) - No Crossover
  • GK: CI (No Damper) + TWFK (White Damper) / Dual Tube
  • GK: CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (Green Damper)  / Dual Tube
  • GK: CI (Brown Damper) + TWFK (Grey Damper)  / Dual Tube
  • GK: CI (Brown Damper) + TWFK (No Damper)  / Dual Tube
  • GK: CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (No Damper)  / Dual Tube
  • GK (Grey Damper) / SingleTube

CI/TWFK COMBINATIONS

  • 5Ohm on the CI + TWFK (22uF) - No Dampers
  • CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (Grey Damper) - No Crossover
  • 10Ohm on the CI + TWFK [0,47uF on the WBFK / 39Ohm inline with cap on the FK side]

CI/ED COMBINATIONS

  • 10Ohm on the CI + ED-23619 (2,2uF+2,2uF) - (No Dampers) 


So the main questions are:
  1. Which single fullrange driver setup will sound best from the above.
  2. Which dampers are the best of the single ED29689 and CI setup?
  3. Will the GQ just with the brown damper sound good enough? How will it work with a CI (Red Damper) without a crossover.
  4. Which GK Damper combination will sound best? Dual or Single tube 
  5. Will the CI/TWFK Combination make sense, or is it better to start directly with a GQ or GK setup?
  6. What do you think about the CI/ED combination. 
  7. Which tube lenght's will you suggest for all of this examples to start? 14-20mm?

     


As I mentioned above, maybe you can give just an addive for 1x Good Single Driver, 1x Good GQ, 1x Good GK and 1x CI/TWFK setup or the best combination of driver and dampers of each "category" of this list to start to beginn. I think this and your answers will help new beginners also to get faster into this.

Much appreciate it! - Thank you!
Click to expand...


I'm doing my first build as well and from my research GK would be way to go with just few dampers to find what signature you like best. For combinations your are not going to get much better with those listed here than GK since GK is same drivers with proper cross over already.
If your going to do combination why not do HODVTEC + TWFK? that is suppose to be better than GK. Hopefully in near future we can all get our hands on the new GV which is HODVTEC + TWFK and crossover in one. Soon as you see the GV on digikey get that if your not done with your build by then.

I would probably recommend people request GV from mouser and digikey. GV-32830
Possibly more demand sooner you will see it.
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 9:46 AM Post #6,158 of 15,989
I am thinking of putting together a 5 driver setup of a HODVTEC + ED + SWFK. With the ED being pretty good at mids and the SWFK having good extension (from what I've read. Never actually used an ED or SWFK). I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what resistors and capacitor values might be needed? At least for some starting points.

Also, I think most people here actually use individual resistors and capacitors right? That's what I've always done. But just wondering if anyone has found any circuit boards like the ones used on Knowles GQ and GK type builds? Would be cool to get circuit boards made with the values you want then just wire it all to the board.

Thanks
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 10:48 AM Post #6,159 of 15,989
mofiddler said:
I'm new to Head-fi. Like many noob's, I have been reading for a while before officially joining and starting to ask questions.

I have not run across this question in my reading, or via a keyword search. I apologize in advance if I am revisiting a pre-existing discussion.

I have a set of impressions, made by an audiologist. They are still "unmodified" in any way. Is it possible/advisable to make a silicone mold of the "original" impressions? My thought process was simply to do this as a fail safe. If I should screw something up while trying to modify to the final casting shape ... I would have a mold to re-create a new "unmodified" set of impressions. Or, I could just use it to create more copies to practice the trimming and modification process.

Any input would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

You definitely could make more impressions from your original.
Just put them in the investment cups, pour over them the hydrocolloid let it cool down and take them out of the molds.
Now you only have to use the AB silicone material used to make the impressions, but instead of using it into your ears, use it into the investments.
You could repeat the process a few times so you'll have a few sets of ear impressions to work on.
 
Usually what people do is once they did the whole process (trimmed their impressions and had a good fitting shells out of them). They simply make a solid acrylic dummy out of those good shells or even keep the original shells and use these shells for every future build (pour the hydrocolloid on them and remove the dummy shells).
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 10:52 AM Post #6,160 of 15,989
forcemajeure said:
  You definitely could make more impressions from your original.
Just put them in the investment cups, pour over them the hydrocolloid let it cool down and take them out of the molds.
Now you only have to use the AB silicone material used to make the impressions, but instead of using it into your ears, use it into the investments.
You could repeat the process a few times so you'll have a few sets of ear impressions to work on.
 
Usually what people do is once they did the whole process (trimmed their impressions and had a good fitting shells out of them). They simply make a solid acrylic dummy out of those good shells or even keep the original shells and use these shells for every future build (pour the hydrocolloid on them and remove the dummy shells).
Click to expand...

AB silicone material have a shelf live of few weeks to months. I think second method works out well & this is how some companies preserve customer impressions.
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 10:55 AM Post #6,161 of 15,989
He wants to have a few ear impressions so he could have a few on hand to experiment trimming them.
Unless he plans to trim them one at the time every 6 months...
Once he'll get things right he could either use a good fitting shell or make an acrylic copy of his good trimmed  and waxed ear impressions.
 
Also you are right companies pour acrylic into emptied trimmed and waxed ear impressions investments to keep.
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 11:20 AM Post #6,162 of 15,989
Originally Posted by Senor CIEM /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Dear DIY CIEM Community,

after getting into all these things the last 2 weeks, I'm really excited to getting started into this project by practising it in the next few days. Reading all the informations here in this thread with over 400 pages and getting through the very nice made Google Docs Wiki, I think I know now a lot of things making shells, faceplates, designs and ear molds, but the biggest part for me is still making the CIEMs sound good from the scratch. 

I know, it's completely a trial and error / measurement and especially experimental thing because the possibilities are endless! 

But after reading all this, I found a few different driver setups here (that has been metioned a lot) that maybe are good to start for "beginners". Maybe some of you can give me your advice - or better to say - your experience to the following setups. 

The thing is, at the end of the day it's a very cost intensiv thing getting the first good sounding IEM just when you had to build 20 difference combinations before. I also want to fill the complete shell out with Fotoplast, so changing components after that is hard to do. 
 
SINGLE DRIVER FULLRANGE SETUP
 
  1. BK-28507 + Grey Damper  / SingleTube
  2. ED29689 + ? Damper / SingleTube
  3. CI + ? Damper / SingleTube

GK/GQ COMBINATIONS
 
  1. GQ + Brown Damper
  2. GQ (No Damper) + CI (Red Damper) - No Crossover
  3. GK: CI (No Damper) + TWFK (White Damper) / Dual Tube
  4. GK: CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (Green Damper)  / Dual Tube
  5. GK: CI (Brown Damper) + TWFK (Grey Damper)  / Dual Tube
  6. GK: CI (Brown Damper) + TWFK (No Damper)  / Dual Tube
  7. GK: CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (No Damper)  / Dual Tube
  8. GK (Grey Damper) / SingleTube
 
CI/TWFK COMBINATIONS
 
  1. 5Ohm on the CI + TWFK (22uF) - No Dampers
  2. CI (Red Damper) + TWFK (Grey Damper) - No Crossover
  3. 10Ohm on the CI + TWFK [0,47uF on the WBFK / 39Ohm inline with cap on the FK side]
 
CI/ED COMBINATIONS
 
  1. 10Ohm on the CI + ED-23619 (2,2uF+2,2uF) - (No Dampers) 
 
 
So the main questions are:
 
  •  

As I mentioned above, maybe you can give just an addive for 1x Good Single Driver, 1x Good GQ, 1x Good GK and 1x CI/TWFK setup or the best combination of driver and dampers of each "category" of this list to start to beginn. I think this and your answers will help new beginners also to get faster into this.
 
Much appreciate it! - Thank you!
Click to expand...

  • Which single fullrange driver setup will sound best from the above.  RAB-32257 is a good single range driver also use it with a green damper. (used in the ety er4xr)
  • Which dampers are the best of the single ED29689 and CI setup? Usually a green on the ED and a orange or yellow on the CI if you plan to use the ED for the mids (you should)...you'll have to use a resistor on the CI so it get's to the level of the ED...trial and error
  • Will the GQ just with the brown damper sound good enough? How will it work with a CI (Red Damper) without a crossover. GQ is used in the ath im02 afaik they don't have a 2 different damping solutions with 2 tubes. A brown or a green should be good, or even white. again you'll have to test.
  • Which GK Damper combination will sound best? Dual or Single tube  Many like a yellow on the CI and green damper on the twfk with 2 separate tubes, although I heard some like using one tube with only green. you'll have to test.
  • Will the CI/TWFK Combination make sense, or is it better to start directly with a GQ or GK setup? GK crossover value have been posted a few times here if I am not mistaken it's 4.7ohm in series with the CI and a High pass filter using only a 22uf cap to the TWFK. IMO the resistor value is a bit low as the GK is a quite warm sounding combination. so you could use a higher value resistor on it. Or you could ditch the GK crossover design and just use a resistor for the CI until it gets to the "right level" with the twfk using only dampers for both of them (I would use yellow on the CI and green/brown or white on the twfk)
  • What do you think about the CI/ED combination. can be very good if you use the right attenuation so both drivers are in unison.
  • Which tube lenght's will you suggest for all of this examples to start? 14-20mm? 10 to 20mm dampers at 5 to 7mm from the spout is the usual recommendation
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 11:24 AM Post #6,163 of 15,989
For me I recommend using the CI as mid-bass. ED as highs. (The ED mids don't sound nice to me)
 
Tubing I'd use 10mm or 15mm length, 1.5mm diameter. 
 
Mar 8, 2017 at 11:05 PM Post #6,165 of 15,989
shilohsjustice said:
I just got these fun little things in the mail today.

TWFK's and HODVTEC's - I'm going to try some different crossover configs.

Click to expand...

BTW the Knowles GV have 2 ports taped and 2 ports meshed filtered. You could use some semipermeable material to control the meshed ports like teabag paper or even earbuds foams for example.
Obstructing the ports will give you less spl by a few db and less of the 1khz bump and probably less distortion also.
 
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