[kingoftown1]

I see some mention of PSU's/power conditioners and power cables in this thread. Are there any that are actually worth it? Or is it mostly snake oil? I gotta imagine high end DAC's and amp's already have sufficient power implementations, no?

There will be plenty of people lining up to tell you both sides of that never-ending argument. The best way to get your answer is to buy one (not a $30 amazon special-- the real thing) from somewhere with a good return policy and find out for yourself.

 

[soulrider4ever]

I demo’d both a PS Audio Dectet and a P5 power wave at the same time - kept the Dectet. Both of them made a difference to me for the better. I sold the P5 mainly because when the fans kicked on it drove me crazy and defeated the purpose IMO for a listening environment.

I will probably get a P12 one day but I still think money is spent better upstream. I’d rather spend $4k on a preamp than a power conditioner. Just my .02c but like others say best way to find out is to just demo for yourself.

Laws of diminishing returns definitely in effect when it comes to power conditioners, cables, etc.

 

[soulrider4ever]

Ok Lumin U2 input initial impressions: PLL On for all.

Coaxial - For me this was one of the best outputs from the Lumin. Very natural, lifelike presentation. Good PRAT and just sounded really great.

AES - Tied with Coax, I couldn’t discern much if any difference between these two inputs. Clearly the Holo PLL just does a great job at being consistent across the spdif receivers. This is my input of choice just because I have a better AES cable than Coax.

USB - This is where I really paid the most attention and would say I really enjoyed the USB from the Lumin but no matter how many times I A/B AES vs USB I kept hearing the same things. Now if usb was all I ever heard I would be more than content, but hearing AES for me to my ears it was superior. USB was slightly sharper sounding, slightly smaller soundstage - in these 2 areas it’s splitting hairs. But the biggest difference for me is PRAT - USB was definitely slower. Tonally it’s the same but the beginning transients of say a guitar via AES just sounds more accurate and that timing causes a ripple effect of a more natural / ease sounding music that increases realism. I was rooting for USB here too hoping that somehow the Auralic was what held it back. Overall I still think USB is very good, just not the best.

USB w/ iGalvanic - This was the least eventful as the audio consistently dropped off within a minute repeatedly. Not sure what’s up with this but the Lumin usb output through this iGalvanic just didn’t get along. Open to ideas to try and get this working.

I get that stating AES sounding superior to USB isn’t a popular opinion but in my system to my ears it just has that extra level of naturalness and realism.

With that being said - I totally concur that each system is different and everyone has different ears, so by all means use whatever input sounds best to you!

I would say the Holo has been one of those major leap forward pieces of gear and all the inputs sound great. The Auralic to the Lumin I would say was a step up (vs leap) and the Aries will be getting listed for sale soon.

I am always of the mindset of don’t worry about what random people say on the internet and try it for yourself. Nothing can replace in home demo with your gear, equipment and ears.

However, so far I agree with the consensus about DDC as the Singer SU1 for example will be collecting dust. But that didn’t stop me from buying a SU6, because I want to hear it for myself and come to my own conclusions. That should be here tomorrow

 

[jerryandme]

I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac. Because of Goldensound's video, I decided to try my Spring 3 KTE by going directly into the USB input from my Mac. I didn't compare it any other way.
Is anyone using an external ddc? If so, how does it compare with other inputs you may have tried?

I ask because I'm looking to upgrade my audio signal NORTH of the Holo.
Trying to find a better solution to get the music from my network to the dac. I don't have Roon.

If you haven't heard the little iFi Zen Stream, for $500 (that includes upgraded power supply, it betters the performance of anything under 2 grand (I've had Lumin in house). I go from the USB with a Supra Excalibur USB (this cable bests the typical overpriced audioquest stuff...I do use an audioquest Niagra conditioner, I just think their cables are poor bargain compared to some boutique outfits). I also use Supra Ethernet into the Zen Stream. Try the Zen Stream. I doubt you'll think an upgrade afterwards is necessary.

 

[Rantenti]

If you haven't heard the little iFi Zen Stream, for $500 (that includes upgraded power supply, it betters the performance of anything under 2 grand (I've had Lumin in house). I go from the USB with a Supra Excalibur USB (this cable bests the typical overpriced audioquest stuff...I do use an audioquest Niagra conditioner, I just think their cables are poor bargain compared to some boutique outfits). I also use Supra Ethernet into the Zen Stream. Try the Zen Stream. I doubt you'll think an upgrade afterwards is necessary.

Thanks for your sharing.

May I ask how the ifi ZS is better than the LUMIN? (I am considering to buy one of them and the ZS is a bargain).

Since the Spring 3 DAC has zero MQA ability, does the ZS do all the hardware decoding and unfolding and send the PCM via USB to the DAC?

So the quality is better than Tidal software-only unfolding as in the case with the computer USB plugged directly to the Spring DAC?

 

[chesebert]

I see some mention of PSU's/power conditioners and power cables in this thread. Are there any that are actually worth it? Or is it mostly snake oil? I gotta imagine high end DAC's and amp's already have sufficient power implementations, no?

Yes and no. Actually the more expensive and the more resolving the gear, the greater the effect of different power cables. They all sound a bit different, just need to try a bunch and find the one that suits your taste.

 

[jerryandme]

Really probably equal in streaming function to the Lumin (we're talking the T2 with moded power supply, which has a DAC, but I also experimented with it as a streamer into other DACs and it's about 10x the Zen cost, so based on that experience, considering I only stream Qobuz via the MCconect app and don't need capabilities beyond that, I see it as a low cost/risk no brainer.

 

[jerryandme]

Yes and no. Actually the more expensive and the more resolving the gear, the greater the effect of different power cables. They all sound a bit different, just need to try a bunch and find the one that suits your taste.

The $1300 Audioquest Niagra (I'm not a fan of their cables) does what it claims in my system. It replaced a $2000 Isotek Aquarius, which I was happy with until I was offered a Niagra audition.

 

[FooFighter]

Thanks for your sharing.

May I ask how the ifi ZS is better than the LUMIN? (I am considering to buy one of them and the ZS is a bargain).

Since the Spring 3 DAC has zero MQA ability, does the ZS do all the hardware decoding and unfolding and send the PCM via USB to the DAC?

So the quality is better than Tidal software-only unfolding as in the case with the computer USB plugged directly to the Spring DAC?

The Zen Stream only does 2x unfolding just like Tidal itself or Roon.
While I confirm the SQ is very good I have to admit that the streaming stability is a catastrophe on all sources I have tried with breakups and complete loss of device connections on Tidal Connect, UPNP from Audirvana and lately also Roon.
The instabilities are commonly reported in the Zen Stream thread.
I wanted to love it but cannot recommend it unfortunately.
My go to streaming solution now is a dedicated industrial Atom Mini PC as NAA for HQPlayer.
Going to put Zen Stream on classifieds.

 

[Rantenti]

The $1300 Audioquest Niagra (I'm not a fan of their cables) does what it claims in my system. It replaced a $2000 Isotek Aquarius, which I was happy with until I was offered a Niagra audition.

Good to know. Does the tight beryllium contacts scratch the prongs of your power cord plugs or do you need to use some cheap plugs to loosen it first? This became the question I always ask before I buy another AC receptacle, since I had once used some AC outlets which were stregthened by a spring system and they defaced my rhodium plated silver plugs with deep bites and scratches... sad...

 

[koso]

I sold off my Denafrips Hermes DDC because the i2s cable I was using had RJ45 connections due to my previous DAC being a Sonnet Morpheus which only accepted rj45. I could have gotten an eye-2s cable but I wanted to rebound a little bit from the purchase of the Holo and the loss I'm taking from selling the Sonnet.

Hi Devilboy,

could you briefly describe sound quality difference between Sonnet Morpheus and Spring 3 KTE? I am just curious.

Anyway, I am very happy with my Spring 3 KTE. I have tested my Spring 3 with Denafrips Gaia and found no significant difference between sound quality of I2S via Gaia (with Siltech Classic Anniversary I2S cable) vs direct USB connection (Aurender streamer directly to USB input).
After that I have experimented with USB reclockers. First attempt: Ideon 3R Master Time USB reclocker. I was not very happy with Ideon. Maybe it is system dependent, but in my setup, it added sort of smoothness to the sound, but it was too smooth and bass was blurred. After that I have tried Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker. And this time it was clear audible improvement! Overall sound character is not altered, but it is better almost in any area. Soundstage is deeper, highs and mids are more refined. Bass is tighter and deeper at the same time, even better (or real) timbre of acoustic instruments. But I must also mention that I use excellent USB cables. Shunyata Alpha (from Aurender to Innuos) and Stealth T-Select V3 (from Innuos to Spring 3). Especially Stealth T-Select V3 usb cable is great. Never heard anything even close to its performance.
I have also tried to remove PhoenixUSB reclocker from audio chain several times and I am sure that in my setup sound is clearly better with PhoenixUSB reclocker.
So yes, Spring 3 KTE has excellent USB input, but you can still benefit from good matched reclocker. It is not cheap solution though (PhoenixUSB + second USB cable) and therefore I recommend trying on your own setup.

 

[devilboy]

Hi Devilboy,

could you briefly describe sound quality difference between Sonnet Morpheus and Spring 3 KTE? I am just curious.

Anyway, I am very happy with my Spring 3 KTE. I have tested my Spring 3 with Denafrips Gaia and found no significant difference between sound quality of I2S via Gaia (with Siltech Classic Anniversary I2S cable) vs direct USB connection (Aurender streamer directly to USB input).
After that I have experimented with USB reclockers. First attempt: Ideon 3R Master Time USB reclocker. I was not very happy with Ideon. Maybe it is system dependent, but in my setup, it added sort of smoothness to the sound, but it was too smooth and bass was blurred. After that I have tried Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker. And this time it was clear audible improvement! Overall sound character is not altered, but it is better almost in any area. Soundstage is deeper, highs and mids are more refined. Bass is tighter and deeper at the same time, even better (or real) timbre of acoustic instruments. But I must also mention that I use excellent USB cables. Shunyata Alpha (from Aurender to Innuos) and Stealth T-Select V3 (from Innuos to Spring 3). Especially Stealth T-Select V3 usb cable is great. Never heard anything even close to its performance.
I have also tried to remove PhoenixUSB reclocker from audio chain several times and I am sure that in my setup sound is clearly better with PhoenixUSB reclocker.
So yes, Spring 3 KTE has excellent USB input, but you can still benefit from good matchedreclocker. It is not cheap solution though (PhoenixUSB + second USB cable) and therefore I recommend trying on your own setup.

Hello koso,

The S3KTE sounds more expansive with better separation of instruments than the Morpheus. And those instruments are more clearly defined within a three dimensional space and have more detail. Attack and speed are exceptional without sounding aggressive at the same time. It still has a natural, organic sound. I don't want to use the old cliche but I'm hearing things I haven't heard before with the S3KTE.
It makes the Morpheus sound softer and rounder... More polite. I'm definitely getting better, more realistic, more enjoyable sound with the S3KTE all via direct USB connection.

That said, it's good to know that you were able to kick it up a notch with the Innuos. Using a USB reclocker is an option I might have to entertain.

Currently, my USB cable is a "split" USB from Triode Wire Labs. I only went with it because my entire system is wired with TWL... XLR interconnects and power cords (Digital American and Seven Plus).

I reduced the number of components in my system and it sounded better at the same time. So I'm very happy with that. If I make any changes, it will only be north of the DAC via reclocker or USB cables or both.

 

[Rantenti]

The Zen Stream only does 2x unfolding just like Tidal itself or Roon.
While I confirm the SQ is very good I have to admit that the streaming stability is a catastrophe on all sources I have tried with breakups and complete loss of device connections on Tidal Connect, UPNP from Audirvana and lately also Roon.
The instabilities are commonly reported in the Zen Stream thread.
I wanted to love it but cannot recommend it unfortunately.
My go to streaming solution now is a dedicated industrial Atom Mini PC as NAA for HQPlayer.
Going to put Zen Stream on classifieds.

Thanks. Just checked the ifi ZS official page. It says it's MQA passthrough only. Maybe it's a license matter? I understand this as the ZS receives and pass the MQA masters data to the DAC without doing anything. If the DAC has MQA rendering ability, then the first unfold should be done by the Tidal App and then the data is sent to the DAC for rendering. If the DAC has zero MQA ability like the Holo Spring, then the Tidal app will do everything and give the ifi ZS a fully unwrapped analogue signal and it is sent to the Spring DAC.

I admit I have VERY little understanding about MQA, but if I am correct above, the only advantage of using an ifi ZS instead of my phone to send Tidal music to the Holo Spring 3 is the USB Active Noise Cancelling / SPDIF Purifier function of the ZS output.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I do wish the ZS does a little more than this, and less of the stability issues other users described, since it could be a very promising product at its price tag.

 

[FooFighter]

Thanks. Just checked the ifi ZS official page. It says it's MQA passthrough only. Maybe it's a license matter? I understand this as the ZS receives and pass the MQA masters data to the DAC without doing anything. If the DAC has MQA rendering ability, then the first unfold should be done by the Tidal App and then the data is sent to the DAC for rendering. If the DAC has zero MQA ability like the Holo Spring, then the Tidal app will do everything and give the ifi ZS a fully unwrapped analogue signal and it is sent to the Spring DAC.

I admit I have VERY little understanding about MQA, but if I am correct above, the only advantage of using an ifi ZS instead of my phone to send Tidal music to the Holo Spring 3 is the USB Active Noise Cancelling / SPDIF Purifier function of the ZS output.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I do wish the ZS does a little more than this, and less of the stability issues other users described, since it could be a very promising product at its price tag.

The discussion about Streamer vs direct phone / tablet is I think a general one as most streamers have some kind of noise filtering / isolation tech built-in.
The general recommendation is to have also a small software footprint with as minimum services running to accomplish the streaming task as possible.
As I stated I have followed the advice about separating source and DAC physically and using some HQPlayer recommended mini PC (UP Gateway) as a Streamer (NAA) which isn't costing more than the Zen Stream but is binding me to HQPlayer as a streaming server software whereas Zen Stream (and other similar PI based streamers) are offering a wide variety of streaming services such as Tidal, DLNA, NAA, UPNP and Roon.
My solution is sounding very good to my ears, I have a large tweaking variety with many PCM and DSD filters with up to 1,5Mhz upsampling rate for the Holo Audio DACs and it is running stable.

 

[Rantenti]

I have never used a mini pc before but I'm interested. Looking at the Atom mini pcs and yes they are really cost effective. I wonder if there is some kind of wireless (like Bluetooth) touch screen that I can put on my lap to control the mini pc from my sofa while the Atom mini PC sits on the hifi rack?

Sorry for my ignorance but I'm completely new to streaming. Been reading and catching up for a few days but the learning curve is steep.