Are you in 110v or 220v region?
Holo Audio Spring R2R DAC
- Thread starter mtoc
- Start date
I'm annoyed, but not angry. I understand these things can happen with any product and I just happened to draw the short straw. Whether I get angry or am satisfied will depend on the customer service I receive. Besides occasional slow response times, I've only heard good things about Kitsune's customer service and hopefully that applies here.
110v (USA)
koso
100+ Head-Fier
I had exactly the same problem with my Spring 3 KTE, right from the beginning.
From very first time I have powered unit ON, there was very audible transformer hum. Initially Magna HiFi (distributor) suggested that it was DC offset problem. After I explained, that I already have decent DC blocker in the power chain (Isotek Syncro uni) and no other transformer has hum issue, Magna HiFi managed to replace my unit for the new one. Very quick swap. Kudos to Magna HiFi.
But anyway it is quite disturbing to hear that this problem affected more units. Hope your unit (or transformer in it) will be repleced ASAP, because this type of issue in this price and quality range is not acceptable at all.
Hi, I noticed that you have the Venus II and Spring KTE, can you give me your impressions on differences and strengths? I’m into progressive rock, electronic/edm and soundtrack music and have both these dacs on my radar. Thanks!
koso
100+ Head-Fier
I can post updated version of my comparison between the two (previously posted in Denafrips thread here at Head-fi):
Everything you will find in the following comparison applies to my own stereo setup (see signature) in my listening area and pair of my own ears. I have not tested these dacs on any other setup and it is possible that the results of the comparison may be different in another setup or/and in another listening space. All comparison was made in NOS mode on both devices (I have to mention I don’t care if Venus II is “true” NOS or not) with same cabling and same input (I2S).
Denafrips Venus II is exactly in the same price and quality range as Spring 3 KTE. You can consider these two as direct competitors. And indeed, in many areas these two DACs are surprisingly close in sound quality. Very close in fact.
Firstly I will name the areas and characteristics which are almost the same on both:
-great dynamics and punch
-rich harmonics
-very good and similar sized soundstage
-great timing
-very good detail retrieval
-VERY realistic rendering of human voices
-universal, great for rock, jazz, electronic or classical
-no sign of brightness or dryness on highs
And now I'll try to explain the differences. And note that all following differences are subtle.
Venus II is smoother and overall sound is more fluid. At first I thought it was caused by over emphasize lower midrange and mid-bass region on Venus side. But after long listening session (and dozen switching between Spring 3 to Venus II with the same music material) I realized that it is not exactly the case here. The amount of bass, mid-bass and low midrange is quite the same on both DACs, but bodies of acoustic instruments (double bass, violin, Spanish guitar) and human voices are little bit bigger and fuller on Venus II. On the other hand same instruments and voices on Spring 3 are in better focus. So maybe more focused individual instruments and voices lead to less sense of overall smoothness. On more complex recordings this is not apparent after first listening, but on recordings where there is only one or two acoustic instrument (solo double bass with guitar for example) Venus II sounds more full bodied, filling all listening place, while Spring 3 sound little bit thiner, but with better pinpoint location of instruments. Even if sound character difference is subtle you instantly know which DAC is playing. It is not easy to explain it clearly. Lets give you another simile. When I am listening to Spring 3 I have that feeling as if mics in the recording studio were closer to instruments comparing to Venus II (if that makes any sense to you). So Spring 3 is bit more precise, or you can say “true” or transparent and Venus II is bit more relaxed and sweet.
There is no clear winner between Spring 3 and Venus II. Both are excellent DACs. Venus II is little bit more full bodied and sweet sounding, but never too sweet (as for example my previous DAC Simaudio Moon 380D was). On the other hand Spring 3 is clearly more transparent, truer to source material, which is very useful quality at all and especially for future changes of any gear in your setup. Another advantage of Spring 3 is fabulous USB input, so there is no need to use DDC. (For sake of this comparison, I2S input on both DACs was used, because direct USB input from Aurender streamer would not be fair, as Venus II has USB input which is far inferior to USB module in Spring 3 KTE. I2S input on both is very good though.)
Both DACs share many great sound characteristic and differences are not big enough to name the winner.
All this of course, as I wrote at the beginning, could be system dependent, because amplification, speakers and not least - listening room, plays a big role in final quality and character of sound.
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Thanks for sharing. I don't have a DC blocker in my chain, but like you none of my other components have ever had any transformer hum. It sounds like your new unit is free from hum?
I'm hoping Kitsune matches Magna's service.
KotBegemot
Head-Fier
Larry Man hello,I stumbled and wasted much of my monies & time searching for the best possible sounding DAC i could afford to compliment my home PC Audio setup until recently I have discovered the DACs with R2R technology. Then after short ownerships of the Musician Pegasus and Aquarius, and contemplating on the Audio-GD R7 MKII, i finally made my seemingly right choice of the Holo Audio Spring 3. So far i trust this is my best decison made in investing in audio for the money. Before that I've also owned many Delta-Sigma DACs with highly appraised reviewes by both experts and consumers, like Gustard X26 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se and Cary Audio DMS-550 & DMS-700 (these are streaming DACs). I ened up selling them all to friends or in Canuck's Audio Mart. I like the Cary DMS-700 very much though, it has an on-board PCM & DSD Hardware Oversampling feature which is now only available in May DAC but missing from the Spring 3. Nevertheless, after now 130+ hours of burn-in on my Spring 3, the micro/macro details & dynamics in the music are unbelievable. Feel like the positive effects are increased further when more hours in. Never before listening to my favorable tracks are like digging into treasures.
I personally found that this particular forum is filled with gentlemen. I tried sharing my experiences and tips on DACs in two other forums, i received mostly abuses and attacks and turned into being lectured. I didn't have time for those headaches and shut myself up and quit. And most of them believing in "measurements", unfortunately i am only a music lover who without an engineering degree.
Thank you all here in this precious forum !
How was your experience with the Musician Aquarius dac? How long did you keep and what were your impressions if you would not mind sharing your impressions, especially vs the Pegasus and to the Holo. Thanks so much!
koso
100+ Head-Fier
New unit is OK now. It is not dead silence, but you have to be really very close to the unit (like few inches) to hear anything.
Larry Man
New Head-Fier
Hello KotBegemot,
I am happy to share with you my recent experiences with the Musician Aquarius and Pegasus DACs vs Holo Spring 3. Please note that i personally don't have the same technical background like most Head-Fi forum members here to establish professional-like reviews on Hi-Fi equipment (for example like koso's reviews
), and my opinions on DACs are mainly based on my own setup and personal music listening preferences. I will try to sum up my impressions on the Musician and Holo DACs for you.As i mentioned in my previous posts that i had my hands on quite a few highly-rated delta-sigma DACs until i entered the amazing world of R2R technologies. Many of those delta-sigma DACs sound pretty good and built with "all-inclusive" modern technologies but they sound too "digital" to me in most cases. They perform overall similarly or slightly better than my McIntosh C49 Preamp's integrated DAC (C49's DAC is a solid performer with full body sound and very well-implemented design, and it equips with ESS Sabre Chip but it's an older chipset model). If these delta-sigma DACs all sound alike, I might as well live with the DAC comes with my C49 Preamp or alternatively upgraded to McIntosh's swapable DAC module called DA2 like NAD's design (DA2 is a tad better perfomer but cost $1,000 USD though, also comes with a better ESS Sabre chipset but still not the top model by ESS Tech). So using an external DAC is a must for me to pursue the best possible sound from my PC-Audio setup. I personally like to have a Preamp with "Tone Control" or "DSP/Equalizer" in my setup, so i can always adjust the treble and bass of the music to add some flavor to my music. This also serves well as room sonic corrections. This explains why i did not choose the preamp option for my Holo Audio Spring 3 DACs. Long story short, R2R DACs sounds very natural and organic especially for human voices. And the soundstaging, instrument separation and backgound music detail retrieval are the strength.
Musician Pegasus & Aquarius vs Holo Audio Spring 3
- Pegasus was my 1st R2R DAC and it has solid sound built into a nice and compact package. Overall build quality is good too, the cabin size is a clear winner for most today's PC-Audio preferred modern space setup. I still think it is an excellent DAC for its price. I had used the Pegasus for about 3 weeks. The Aquarius i sold to my cousin after about 2 weeks owned and he likes it a lot still. My cousin also has a Holo Audio Spring 3 Level 2 for his living room setup (He mentioned that he likes Spring 3 more than Aquarius though). I had a Spring 3 Level 1 for about 2 weeks, later sold it and upgraded to Spring 3 KTE mainly in favor of the Titanis 2 USB Module. The Titanis 2 USB on the KTE model without doubts sounds better than the regular USB in Level 1 and Level 2, but the Holo's designed regular USB module still sound fantasic and better than most consumer DACs in the current market.
- Aquarius is basically a beef up version of Pegasus, Aquarius has easier navigation for Inputs on the front panel, and it has a better power supply than Pegasus. Most importanly it has Dual Crystal Oscillator Clocks built-in (Pegasus has no clocks). Pegasus uses 2 rails of R2R ladders while Aquarius uses 4 rails (double the decoding speed). Aquarius displays more firmer and more managed bass, the clarity in both highs and mids are noticeablely better as well. I personally felt that Aquarius displays about 20% better in overall performance compare to Pegasus, but Aquarius is priced a bit too high at $2,899 USD (by $1,800 more than Pegasus). I personally would buy the Spring 3 Level 2 instead of Musician Aquarius, both carry similar price tags.
- I only use balanced XLR connections from the DAC to my Preamp, i found both Pegasus and Aquarius have substantially lower in output sound volume than Holo Audio's Spring 3 during regular playback. I had to use "Input Gain" function to boost up the volume up at least 2 - 2.5 db to bring Pegasus/Aquarius properly to normal listening sound level, and to level up with my Preamp's interanl DAC when doing my own sound comparison. Spring 3 has no such issue as far as i can tell.
- I mainly use USB connection from my PC to the DAC. Both Pegasus and Aquarius show quiet black background with USB connections and matching the Spring 3's.
- I hate the unstable 3-leg design of Pegasus and Aquarius (and Denafrips's), most aftermarket Power cables always awkwardly tilt up the DAC from the back.
- For Pegasus and Aquarius you can toggle between NOS (Non-OverSampling) and OS (OverSampling) modes from the front panel, with Spring 3 only NOS is available. Spring 2 has OS function but it has been deleted on Spring 3 due to through-the-roof price of AKM chipset after the factory was burnt down last year). Depends on personal preferences and mood, type of music and source of music, OS is a bonus in most occasions and this reminds me my previous Cary Audio DMS-700 which has onboard OS by AKM chipset (same as in Holo Audio May DAC). Going back to the front panel display, Spring 3's display panel is lovely to watch and so easy to read the sampling rate and input used. The info on Musician's front panel is kind of busy with small dot lights and is harder to read especially from distance.
- I had sound distorion problem with my Pegasus since Day 1, whenever i changed the sampling rates from the Windows Sound Setting to higher than 96KHz/32-Bit, the sound intermittently became distorted (turned scary high-pitch sound for about 10 seconds and then resumed regular playing). I have actaully been experiencing same problem with my Holo Spring 3 KTE with newer firmware upgrade and paired with JCAT USB XE card (no issue with native USB ports with my PC. According to Jos@Magna Hi-Fi, Holo Audio has no solution for so far). I personally suspect that it could be the NOS mode in R2R ladders don't work with oversampling from Windows's sound sampling settings. I did not chase further for the solution to this problem and later returned it to the dealer. Yes i fully understand that the Oversampling can be done by software upsampling like HQ Player/JRiver, but i don't have much stored music to play. With my PC-Audio setup, I mainly stream music from Spotify and watch Youtube music shows/Videos/Movies. The sound oversampling rates in Windows Sound settings are particularly helpful for listening to streamed music from Spotify and watching music shows/movies from Youtube. Higher resolution can boost up some older recordings in Spotify and music contents in Youtube.
- Assuming all with proper burn-in time, I must say that Pegasus cannot compare to any level of Holo Spring 3, Pegasus has very similar design to Denafrips's Ares II and carries very similar sound signature (i heard once in my colleague's basement). In my opinion the Aquarius's overall performance is very close to Spring 3's Level 1 or 2, but it cannot surpass Spring 3's outstanding performance. Spring 3 KTE clearly wins in every aspects over the Aquarius. For buyers want to spend less, Pegasus is the best buy for around $1K USD. You will get up to 80% performance of its big brother Aquarius. For investing $1K more, Spring 3 Level 1 is the best choice in R2R design (still not cheap for a DAC though) ! Musician's DACs are very well designed but in terms of build quality, hardware capability and sonic performance, Spring 3 all Levels shine !
Hope these help
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KotBegemot
Head-Fier
THANKS SO MUCH for your in-depth comparo. Do you remember your impressions on Aquarius vs the Pegasus? I ve tried the Pegasus and despite it not being a bad sounding unit, after a 21 days non stop break in I still preferred my Drlta Sigma unit. Now thinking about the Aquarius or the Holo, and since both of those are difficult to obtain and trial at the moment, am looking for any insight I can get. Appreciate your impressions greatly.Hello KotBegemot,
I am happy to share with you my recent experiences with the Musician Aquarius and Pegasus DACs vs Holo Spring 3. Please note that i personally don't have the same technical background like most Head-Fi forum members here to establish professional-like reviews on Hi-Fi equipment (for example like koso's reviews
As i mentioned in my previous posts that i had my hands on quite a few highly-rated delta-sigma DACs until i entered the amazing world of R2R technologies. Many of those delta-sigma DACs sound pretty good and built with "all-inclusive" modern technologies but they sound too "digital" to me in most cases. They perform overall similarly or slightly better than my McIntosh C49 Preamp's integrated DAC (C49's DAC is a solid performer with full body sound and very well-implemented design, and it equips with ESS Sabre Chip but it's an older chipset model). If these delta-sigma DACs all sound alike, I might as well live with the DAC comes with my C49 Preamp or alternatively upgraded to McIntosh's swapable DAC module called DA2 like NAD's design (DA2 is a tad better perfomer but cost $1,000 USD though, also comes with a better ESS Sabre chipset but still not the top model by ESS Tech). So using an external DAC is a must for me to pursue the best possible sound from my PC-Audio setup. I personally like to have a Preamp with "Tone Control" or "DSP/Equalizer" in my setup, so i can always adjust the treble and bass of the music to add some flavor to my music. This also serves well as room sonic corrections. This explains why i did not choose the preamp option for my Holo Audio Spring 3 DACs. Long story short, R2R DACs sounds very natural and organic especially for human voices. And the soundstaging, instrument separation and backgound music detail retrieval are the strength.
Musician Pegasus & Aquarius vs Holo Audio Spring 3
- Pegasus was my 1st R2R DAC and it has solid sound built into a nice and compact package. Overall build quality is good too, the cabin size is a clear winner for most today's PC-Audio preferred modern space setup. I still think it is an excellent DAC for its price. I had used the Pegasus for about 3 weeks. The Aquarius i sold to my cousin after about 2 weeks owned and he likes it a lot still. My cousin also has a Holo Audio Spring 3 Level 2 for his living room setup (He mentioned that he likes Spring 3 more than Aquarius though). I had a Spring 3 Level 1 for about 2 weeks, later sold it and upgraded to Spring 3 KTE mainly in favor of the Titanis 2 USB Module. The Titanis 2 USB on the KTE model without doubts sounds better than the regular USB in Level 1 and Level 2, but the Holo's designed regular USB module still sound fantasic and better than most consumer DACs in the current market.
- Aquarius is basically a beef up version of Pegasus, Aquarius has easier navigation for Inputs on the front panel, and it has a better power supply than Pegasus. Most importanly it has Dual Crystal Oscillator Clocks built-in (Pegasus has no clocks). Pegasus uses 2 rails of R2R ladders while Aquarius uses 4 rails (double the decoding speed). Aquarius displays more firmer and more managed bass, the clarity in both highs and mids are noticeablely better as well. I personally felt that Aquarius displays about 20% better in overall performance compare to Pegasus, but Aquarius is priced a bit too high at $2,899 USD (by $1,800 more than Pegasus). I personally would buy the Spring 3 Level 2 instead of Musician Aquarius, both carry similar price tags.
- I only use balanced XLR connections from the DAC to my Preamp, i found both Pegasus and Aquarius have substantially lower in output sound volume than Holo Audio's Spring 3 during regular playback. I had to use "Input Gain" function to boost up the volume up at least 2 - 2.5 db to bring Pegasus/Aquarius properly to normal listening sound level, and to level up with my Preamp's interanl DAC when doing my own sound comparison. Spring 3 has no such issue as far as i can tell.
- I mainly use USB connection from my PC to the DAC. Both Pegasus and Aquarius show quiet black background with USB connections and matching the Spring 3's.
- I hate the unstable 3-leg design of Pegasus and Aquarius (and Denafrips's), most aftermarket Power cables always awkwardly tilt up the DAC from the back.
- For Pegasus and Aquarius you can toggle between NOS (Non-OverSampling) and OS (OverSampling) modes from the front panel, with Spring 3 only NOS is available. Spring 2 has OS function but it has been deleted on Spring 3 due to through-the-roof price of AKM chipset after the factory was burnt down last year). Depends on personal preferences and mood, type of music and source of music, OS is a bonus in most occasions and this reminds me my previous Cary Audio DMS-700 which has onboard OS by AKM chipset (same as in Holo Audio May DAC). Going back to the front panel display, Spring 3's display panel is lovely to watch and so easy to read the sampling rate and input used. The info on Musician's front panel is kind of busy with small dot lights and is harder to read especially from distance.
- I had sound distorion problem with my Pegasus since Day 1, whenever i changed the sampling rates from the Windows Sound Setting to higher than 96KHz/32-Bit, the sound intermittently became distorted (turned scary high-pitch sound for about 10 seconds and then resumed regular playing). I have actaully been experiencing same problem with my Holo Spring 3 KTE with newer firmware upgrade and paired with JCAT USB XE card (no issue with native USB ports with my PC. According to Jos@Magna Hi-Fi, Holo Audio has no solution for so far). I personally suspect that it could be the NOS mode in R2R ladders don't work with oversampling from Windows's sound sampling settings. I did not chase further for the solution to this problem and later returned it to the dealer. Yes i fully understand that the Oversampling can be done by software upsampling like HQ Player/JRiver, but i don't have much stored music to play. With my PC-Audio setup, I mainly stream music from Spotify and watch Youtube music shows/Videos/Movies. The sound oversampling rates in Windows Sound settings are particularly helpful for listening to streamed music from Spotify and watching music shows/movies from Youtube. Higher resolution can boost up some older recordings in Spotify and music contents in Youtube.
- Assuming all with proper burn-in time, I must say that Pegasus cannot compare to any level of Holo Spring 3, Pegasus has very similar design to Denafrips's Ares II and carries very similar sound signature (i heard once in my colleague's basement). In my opinion the Aquarius's overall performance is very close to Spring 3's Level 1 or 2, but it cannot surpass Spring 3's outstanding performance. Spring 3 KTE clearly wins in every aspects over the Aquarius. For buyers want to spend less, Pegasus is the best buy for around $1K USD. You will get up to 80% performance of its big brother Aquarius. For investing $1K more, Spring 3 Level 1 is the best choice in R2R design (still not cheap for a DAC though) ! Musician's DACs are very well designed but in terms of build quality, hardware capability and sonic performance, Spring 3 all Levels shine !
Hope these help
Larry Man
New Head-Fier
After my first taste of R2R ladder DAC playing favorite music (my case was with Pegasus), i never looked back to delta-sigma design. The R2R Dacs sound so much more invloving and human like vocal. The only newer delta-sigma DAC i miss is the SMSL VMV D1se which has an unique feature called "Sound Color", it is basically a DSP with variable settings by utiliazing the built-in feature of ESS Sabre ES9038 Pro chipset. But i only like two settings out of the Sound Color feature called "Tube 2" and "Tube 3". SMSL/ESS Tech did a great job simulating the Tube sound and the sound feels very liquid and smooth. The Audio-GD R8 MKII and R7 MKII have similar tube simulation feature implemented as well. Also, i believe the newest Matrix X-Sabre 3 DAC will be a top performer. But as i said i enjoy the R2R products very much, much more than delta-sigma's at the moment.
Pegasus is an excellent sounding DAC for the price ! Aquarius is for sure better than Pegasus but not by a big margin. You still prefer your delta-sigma DACs possibly because you have not yet tried other higher tier R2R products, or it could be the type of music you prefer. But if you would choose to upgrade between Aquarius and Spring 3, the Spring 3 (regardless of Levels) is definitely a better choice. I remembered that i had many WoWs the 1st week using Spring 3, but i had no surprises with Aquarius. The interanl parts used and design of the Holo Audio products are in higher level than Musician's. Like choosing a Car built by mass volume production or by handmade limited production. And i never regret about letting go my Aquarius and am enjoying daily my Spring 3.
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What are your thoughts comparing the R7 MKII and the Spring 3, especially for energetic genres like electronic, rock and EDM?
Larry Man
New Head-Fier
Sorry KerrangZ, I have never tried Audio-GD DACs. I was contemplating to take the R7 MK2 or R8 MK2, then Jos@Magna Hi-Fi successfully convinced me on the Holo Spring 3
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KotBegemot
Head-Fier
Thanks again for your in-depth review. Its especially more valuable since I know your amp& loudspeaker's sonic signature very well, unlike most headphones' experiences. The built quality does not always corresponds to the quality of the sound especially as it comes to dacs in my extensive experience. I use $500 delta sigma dac which so far in mine 3 separate high end systems bettered many dacs 10 times its price, and is somewhat of a rarity, for my musical tastes of course...
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ShangriLa
Head-Fier
So does the hum issue only happen when you purchase EU model from Magnahifi and use in the US? Or Kitusni units have had this issue as well? When that happens, did Magnahifi send replacement unit to the US and who paid for shipping?
I'm thinking about buying from Magnahifi and I'm in the US because of Kitsuni's wait time. But if Kitusni units are less likely to have the hum issue and when that happens Kitusni will have a smoother replacement experience, I'd wait and just buy from Kitusni.
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