[incredulousity]

Some kind of confused.

Synology NAS -minimServer > Streamer ? > DLNA - (BubbleUpNp on IPadpro) > DSD 256/ 512 native (I2S) > HoloAudio Spring 3 KTE

I do prefer I2S /HoloaudioDAC . There are some interesting DSD256 and DSD 512 files on my NAS.

My short Raspi 3/4 experiments with DSD256 and DSD512 were only successful with USB . Not with I2S . Not Dop - not DSD direct worked . (PiAES - Mercury) .

Someone tried IFI NEO stream or Holo RED working reliable with DSD512 direct (native) (Gigbit Ethernet) over I2S > HoloAudioSpring 3 KTE ?

No. But using Red as streamer, I can run Roon —> HQ player upsampling to DSD1024 and output DSD native/direct to May by USB. It works fine.

DSD 512 to i2s and eventually DSD 1024 will work. Inputting i2s instead of USB on Spring3 KTE makes no sense to me, unless you have one of the very early ones with the old USB, in which case you should update that.

 

[mine]

No. But using Red as streamer, I can run Roon —> HQ player upsampling to DSD1024 and output DSD native/direct to May by USB. It works fine.

DSD 512 to i2s and eventually DSD 1024 will work. Inputting i2s instead of USB on Spring3 KTE makes no sense to me, unless you have one of the very early ones with the old USB, in which case you should update that.

Thanx a lot . This is the crucial point. Even with the Spring 3 KTE with enhanced USB I prefer I2S by a slight margin. May be its the unmodified USB of my RasPi 4 devices (PIAES /Mercury) or maybe my old ears fool me. I dont know. With USB there are no problems (DSD64/128/256/512)at all. Its I2S that doesnt work , because Spring will accept only native DSD over I2S and not DoP. So there seem to be very few options in the > 1500 € class : IFI Neo stream - HoloAudio RED come to my mind.

 

[intrepidcase]

Every network seems to have its own share of quirks.
The Intona would work if I ran direct via ALSA with USB, no NAA.
I've run NAA on SonicTransporter OS and on a MeLE computer stick and would every now and then get a drop out.
With the RED as NAA, I haven't had one drop, glitch or hiccup while streaming or playing files from SSD.

So I was able to get the RED -> Intona to work by putting a mini USB hub in between them. Apparently an AQ jitterbug or iFi iSilencer will work as well so I might try one of those to reduce cable count.

I was also able to the get the NAA 4.3.0 RPi4 image to run on the RED after adding the simple overlay as per the RED manual (dtoverlay=dwc2,dr_mode=host).

Now I need to do some listening to see if the RED + NAA Image + Intona makes an audible SQ difference.

 

[Clemmaster]

No. But using Red as streamer, I can run Roon —> HQ player upsampling to DSD1024 and output DSD native/direct to May by USB. It works fine.

DSD 512 to i2s and eventually DSD 1024 will work. Inputting i2s instead of USB on Spring3 KTE makes no sense to me, unless you have one of the very early ones with the old USB, in which case you should update that.

Why buy a Red streamer if all you want to use is USB?

 

[incredulousity]

Because it is a good streamer, and it actually improves sound quality to me over using usb straight from computer to May. I have no interest in using it as a DDC. Further (modest, not as much) incremental improvement comes from optical network isolation of the audio stuff from the rest of the home network. I’ve been “noise free” for a long time. These improvements are in terms of separation, detail, imaging, and soundstage. I’m quite pleased with the changes, for quite modest investment. I’m sure that one’s experience of these improvements are at least a little subjective, but also dependent on the chain as a whole. My power and cables are very good, and Red/May/Bliss/Envy scale well with incremental changes. I have a good USB cable that I actually feel was worth the investment even before going to Red. I expect i2s to be a downgrade here, but honestly have not tested it. If you want to lend me an i2s cable, I’d be happy to try.

 

[stosoorok]

This is interesting. Why activate VideoCore processor and rtl?
Does anyone know RED's ssh user/password? Would be a bit easier to test these settings.

I checked the SD card, audio linux RTC suggestion is already in config.txt

 

[Clemmaster]

Because it is a good streamer, and it actually improves sound quality to me over using usb straight from computer to May. I have no interest in using it as a DDC. Further (modest, not as much) incremental improvement comes from optical network isolation of the audio stuff from the rest of the home network. I’ve been “noise free” for a long time. These improvements are in terms of separation, detail, imaging, and soundstage. I’m quite pleased with the changes, for quite modest investment. I’m sure that one’s experience of these improvements are at least a little subjective, but also dependent on the chain as a whole. My power and cables are very good, and Red/May/Bliss/Envy scale well with incremental changes. I have a good USB cable that I actually feel was worth the investment even before going to Red. I expect i2s to be a downgrade here, but honestly have not tested it. If you want to lend me an i2s cable, I’d be happy to try.

I2S is a vast improvement over USB with every DAC I've tried, including the Rockna Wavedream which has the best USB implementation I've personally heard (albeit, not galvanically isolated, but that can be remedies with an USB isolator - when needed).
I was just curious about your previous statement regarding USB vs I2S with the Spring 3 KTE. You definitely should give I2S a try. You can start with a short consumer grade HDMI 2.1 cable. They should have good enough tolerance and be cheaper than audiophile HDMI cables...

 

[Greg121986]

I have not made a final conclusion yet, but so far it seems my Spring 3 KTE gets along better with I2S from the RED than it does with USB from my MPD server. The primary caveat is that I have a 30 Ft USB extension coming from my server in order to get USB audio to my DAC. I am using a pcie USB card which I believe is an improvement from the motherboard USB. But, the only real benefit of the USB input on the Spring 3 KTE I have found is that the PLL lock is super fast is not required. I2S takes a bit because of PLL which is frustrating, but I still think I2S via RED seems to sound better.

 

[incredulousity]

USB ignores and does not use PLL on Spring 3 and May.

 

[incredulousity]

I2S is a vast improvement over USB with every DAC I've tried, including the Rockna Wavedream which has the best USB implementation I've personally heard (albeit, not galvanically isolated, but that can be remedies with an USB isolator - when needed).
I was just curious about your previous statement regarding USB vs I2S with the Spring 3 KTE. You definitely should give I2S a try. You can start with a short consumer grade HDMI 2.1 cable. They should have good enough tolerance and be cheaper than audiophile HDMI cables...

That’s certainly easy and cheap enough to do. OOB I assume Red is set to May default i2s configuration…?

But if I find in favor of USB, it is either my pro-USB bias or my lack of an adequate i2s cable right?

 

[incredulousity]

That is a very big caveat.

 

[FOUNDERZERO]

Why buy a Red streamer if all you want to use is USB?

Because it's also a DDC, and a good one at that. I did some comparisons between ethernet and USB input (Supra Excalibur 1m cable) and didn't notice any qualitative differences between the two.

 

[Clemmaster]

That’s certainly easy and cheap enough to do. OOB I assume Red is set to May default i2s configuration…?

But if I find in favor of USB, it is either my pro-USB bias or my lack of an adequate i2s cable right?

If

 

[intrepidcase]

After some initial struggles, I have found a happy place with the RED streamer ...

a) RoPieeeXL with RoonBridge and NAA. Seems a bit more stable than RED OS and no tiny dust pops so far with DSD 256 via NAA/USB. Guessing that RED OS is still a work in progress and hard to know how much has been done with the kernel, etc

b) Roon/HQPlayer/NAA DSD256 -> USB out -> Intona (with required mini hub in between to get them to lock) -> DAC for critical listening

c) Roon -> virtual USB RED -> SPDIF -> same DAC for multi-room/non-critical playback

I also got the NAA image to work but that of course negates using RoonBridge and so far not hearing any SQ differences. Might try Gentoo at some point.

 

[spacecase25]

responding mainly to @mr_derrick and @Greg121986 :

Finally it seems we will see someone comparing the Red to the all too popular Rendu... it will be great to have a starting point! bearing in mind of course specially the Optical Rendu can in theory have so many variables affecting the final result. But still it's great someone will be doing it, Ive 3 streamers already but almost got the Red just for this comparisson.

To greg and many others noting how unfortunate that the Red wont stream AND ddc to I2S at the same time.. we sonore users have long been limited to just USB. want to use I2S? (or well, spdif, but who really??) then buy a second small black box for $500 for the DDC part (called ultradigital), and btw note that it will only work woth a Rendu.. BTW, the original version needed yet a separate PSU, now V2 uses the USB power (more practical, but is it good, really, at this level of commitment, to rely on this source of power?).

So well, why not a second Red in the chain? one for streaming, another to use the I2S to your DAC if you so wish? Im guessing it would work fine and cost the same or less than a Rendu + ultradigital. (full disclaimer, I have the original ultradigital sitting here without use for months as Ive made the decision to use 1024dsd with USB)

Just putting it out there, the ultradigital works with any USB audio source. It is not limited to sonore products, despite what their product listing implies. Ive only ever used mine with a PC USB source.