Holo Audio Red Streamer

[genefruit]

I have been using the red with my holo stack since ~June and enjoying the no nonsence quality playback, room endpoint etc.

1. Has anyone been successful -or is it possible - in upsampling to obtain 1.5mhz on PCM in roon? If so any guidance to setup is appreciated. (I am finding dsd good but a bit soft at times). I am using USB.

I’ve easily obtained 1.5 PCM with the HQPlayer NAA software but that’s all I’ve ever used in the Red. HQPlayer may be the difference.

 

[Burkhardt]

I would prefer here Ropieee XL or the HQP OS in using the Red as NAA client, because the Holo OS included an outdated NAA client version.
Also you've to install and buy HQPlayer for upsampling to 1.5 MHz.

 

[bodiebill2]

I also own the Red w/Purple fuse.
Would you mind explain what you found "underwhelming" about the Red as a streamer?

@Dandoudou summed it up nicely, at least a possible technical explanation for it.

I must admit that I have mostly regarded streaming as a compromise in terms of SQ. That is why I have used stand alone USB or SD card players in the past. Omitting the network opened up the sound. However, this was not very user-friendly, and the network brings convenience. After trial and error I have achieved a streaming setup that sounds very good to my ears, as follows:
Beelink mini PC with GentooPlayer as Diretta host > CAT6 > Afterdark SFP > fiber (12m) > EtherRegen > Afterdark Rosanna Network Bridge as Diretta target > USB cable > USB-fiber converter > fiber (30 cm) > fiber-USB converter > USB cable > Red as DDC > I2S > DAC
This way the Red shines. (The USB-fiber and fiber-USB converters are one product that consists of 2 separate boxes.)

However, with the simpler setup
Beelink mini PC with GentooPlayer as Diretta host > CAT6 > Afterdark SFP > fiber (12m) > EtherRegen > Red as streamer > I2S > DAC
the sound becomes slightly more closed in, less involving, with less sparkle and less note-individuality.
The difference is subtle, but important enough for me.

I am really happy with the Red. It is a real Swiss army knife with a potentially great sound -- and I have not yet tried all possibilities...

 

[joseph69]

For the same reason for which I'm not using the Red a streamer.
@bodiebill2 followed my advice, and he puts USB fiber between a USB streamer, and his DDCs.
When the Red is used as a DDC, it is a more silent device than when it is used as streamer, because it does not run its Rpi4 + an OS.
The USB fiber that precedes the Red removes the noise of the streamer, and the quality of the sound improves seriously.

Thank you for your input.

@Dandoudou summed it up nicely, at least a possible technical explanation for it.

I must admit that I have mostly regarded streaming as a compromise in terms of SQ. That is why I have used stand alone USB or SD card players in the past. Omitting the network opened up the sound. However, this was not very user-friendly, and the network brings convenience. After trial and error I have achieved a streaming setup that sounds very good to my ears, as follows:
Beelink mini PC with GentooPlayer as Diretta host > CAT6 > Afterdark SFP > fiber (12m) > EtherRegen > Afterdark Rosanna Network Bridge as Diretta target > USB cable > USB-fiber converter > fiber (30 cm) > fiber-USB converter > USB cable > Red as DDC > I2S > DAC
This way the Red shines. (The USB-fiber and fiber-USB converters are one product that consists of 2 separate boxes.)

However, with the simpler setup
Beelink mini PC with GentooPlayer as Diretta host > CAT6 > Afterdark SFP > fiber (12m) > EtherRegen > Red as streamer > I2S > DAC
the sound becomes slightly more closed in, less involving, with less sparkle and less note-individuality.
The difference is subtle, but important enough for me.

I am really happy with the Red. It is a real Swiss army knife with a potentially great sound -- and I have not yet tried all possibilities...

Thanks for explaining your chain and the reasons for the different uses. I have 2 FMC boxes, but have yet to explore anything different with the Red but streaming being my Red was purchased from a fellow member and only used for 6 months in a comparison, so it doesn't have much burn in on it, nor does my newly purchased Spring3 KTE, so I'd like to let both units settle before switching anything up.

 

[NoTimeFor]

Just wanted to share my digital experience w RED. To improve my digital sound, I bought following items: 1. LhY-sw8 switch 2. Revelation Audio Labs I2S silver cable 3. Revelation Audio Labs silver cat8 cable. Adding each item into the digital transmission line improved the sound. First, adding an audiophile grade switch made the sound much more relaxed. More air between musical instruments. I can't understand how this can happen given low noise gear I have in my system. Second, when I was replacing a generic amazon hdmi cable with the RAL i2s cable, i was skeptical because the RAL cable was longer and I didn't think 1s and 0s transmission should not matter especially the signal coming out of a low noise device such as Holo Red. But GUESS WHAT? I proved myself wrong again. What I heard was a really incredible PRAT without any harshness. Music sounded more smooth. Mind you, this cable needed a solid 2 weeks run to reveal its capability. By now, I have taken healthy dose of and I wanted to hear how far this rabbit hole reaches my ears so I ordered& inserted the RAL silver CAT8 ethernet cable between the switch and Red. My initial reaction was.. Meh as the highs too bright, which I hated. But I heard this ridiculous amount of details, so I kept it burning with May being off for 3 weeks. After that I can definitely say that this ethernet cable made a big impact as it brought so much detail and soundstage extremely spacious and airy. Although it does not show in the picture but I also added 2m RAL power cable to RED which further improved quietness, detail retrival, and bass.
All in all, these upgrades weren't cheap for me, but it was definitely worth it because now music sounds so fresh and real, feels like I am at a recording studio with the artist.

 

[Forsaked]

Can this be used with PC on USB-In and the DAC on USB-Out without any significant latency?
Seems be intresting for a combination to use with PC audio and Roon / NAA.

Currently using:

PC (PC audio) > USB > Topping HS02 (for manual switching) > USB > DAC
Pi4 (RoPieee XL) > USB (when using HQPlayer via Roon) > Topping HS02 (for manual switching) > USB > DAC
Pi4 (RoPieee XL) > S/PDIF (when using Roon directly) > DAC

Looks like USB-Out only works when streaming via network, what a shame.

 

[Patu]

Looks like USB-Out only works when streaming via network, what a shame.

What would be the point feeding Red with USB and taking out the same USB signal? If you want an USB-isolator, look no further than Intona products.

 

[Forsaked]

What would be the point feeding Red with USB and taking out the same USB signal? If you want an USB-isolator, look no further than Intona products.

I wanted to patch through the PC audio (not music) to it while having a streamer for Roon and HQPlayer in the same box.
But probably i could just use it's S/PDIF output for the PC audio, if there is no real latency.

 

[Patu]

I wanted to patch through the PC audio (not music) to it while having a streamer for Roon and HQPlayer in the same box.
But probably i could just use it's S/PDIF output for the PC audio, if there is no real latency.

I see, yeah you can use S/PDIF out for the USB-input. Obviously you won't get the higher sample rates with S/PDIF out but if those aren't needed then there's no reason not to use S/PDIF. I can't remember now if I2S output works with the USB-input. I've only used my Red for streaming and with USB-output. I once tried the I2S output to my Spring 3 but it sounded worse than the USB and had some weird pops and cracks in the sound every now and then. I used Chord HDMi-cable which shouldn't be of high quality.

 

[Xantores]

Hi all,

The led of my Holo Red stay red (I'm not trying to rhyme ). I made the gentooplayer upgrade yesterday (8.3) and I think it is linked. Are you experimenting the same for Gentooplayer users ?

 

[Forsaked]

I see, yeah you can use S/PDIF out for the USB-input. Obviously you won't get the higher sample rates with S/PDIF out but if those aren't needed then there's no reason not to use S/PDIF. I can't remember now if I2S output works with the USB-input. I've only used my Red for streaming and with USB-output. I once tried the I2S output to my Spring 3 but it sounded worse than the USB and had some weird pops and cracks in the sound every now and then. I used Chord HDMi-cable which shouldn't be of high quality.

Since my current DAC only supports USB and S/PDIF, both would be connected to it.
The PC would use S/PDIF while the sample rate on the system would stay at standard 44.1/24 and for streaming i could use the USB with max. sample rate of 768/32 or DSD256 via DoP.
If there is no latency in doing so, i would consider it, but there is virtually no Red stock anywhere in Europe, so i would still have to wait.

Maybe Holo Audio jumps the Raspberry Pi 5 train, when the compute module hits the market.

 

[Dandoudou]

Maybe Holo Audio jumps the Raspberry Pi 5 train, when the compute module hits the market.

It's not sure that it's an interesting choice for a streamer. A powerful computer is more noisy. The less powerful is the computer, the better it is for a streamer.
The Rpi3 was better than the Rpi4 for this task. It should be the same with the Rpi5.

 

[Forsaked]

It's not sure that it's an interesting choice for a streamer. A powerful computer is more noisy. The less powerful is the computer, the better it is for a streamer.
The Rpi3 was better than the Rpi4 for this task. It should be the same with the Rpi5.

Since we are talking about a compute module, without any IO except the bus it connects to, there should be no difference.
The full sized board makes a difference, the RPi 4 introduced a dedicated ethernet port without beeing bound to the USB bus, which in that case made it better then the RPi 3.

 

[Dandoudou]

Since we are talking about a compute module, without any IO except the bus it connects to, there should be no difference.
The full sized board makes a difference, the RPi 4 introduced a dedicated ethernet port without beeing bound to the USB bus, which in that case made it better then the RPi 3.

The amount of electrical noise that a computer produces is proportional to its computing power. Check what is the power consumption of the Rpi5 and compare it to the Rpi4's.

The fact that the Ethernet port of the Rpi3 was shared with the USB port was a handicap only if you used a standalone Rpi3 as a streamer.
Streamers makers like Allo.com and AfterDark engineered solutions for that in the products for which they were using the Rpi3.

 

[Forsaked]

The amount of electrical noise that a computer produces is proportional to its computing power. Check what is the power consumption of the Rpi5 and compare it to the Rpi4's.

The fact that the Ethernet port of the Rpi3 was shared with the USB port was a handicap only if you used a standalone Rpi3 as a streamer.
Streamers makers like Allo.com and AfterDark engineered solutions for that in the products for which they were using the Rpi3.

Allo uses RPi 3 compute module because it was the latest one which was available at their design phase of the USB Bridge.
Changing this design to be conpatible with RPi 4 compute modules would have cost money for R&D, since the power delivery requirements changed.
We will see what will come when the compute modules aren't produced anymore.