Holo Audio Red Streamer
Jun 5, 2023 at 9:47 PM Post #1,007 of 1,883
let me try to summarized the function of Red and hopefully member can understand why there's a product like Red.

First Function, streamer. Make sure you don't plug in anything in the USB in of the Red. (Else it will force the Red to function as DDC and won't boot up the sd card OS). Red need to have the SD card plug in to the slot with linux base (correct me if wrong) OS that turn a Pi base controller into a mini PC with the purpose to function as a music network endpoint. Protocol supported by it depends on the OS, e.g. Roon, sportify, NAA, UPNP, airplay etc. And it will output via USB out, coax, optical, AES, I2S. With May, since both Red and May support 1.5M in PCM to me it's no brainer to stick to USB out to May. Then you need to have a host/server where you would run music library software and send your music to Red as streamer. You can run Roon, Jriver etc. Most of these music library software come with "controller" app option, to use phone or ipad to browse your library on your host/server and play it to Red (audio network endpoint)

Some people might ask why do we need this Audio Network Endpoint while we can connect to our DAC from our PC directly. Back about 10 years ago, when one of the first streamer audio network endpoint come out (micro rendu), it seriously change the quality of computer Hifi scene. I was shock too with the elevation of sound quality with this method compare to a highly optimized PC (fanless, bare win server with audio optimizer software, linear PS etc) connect direct to the DAC via USB sitting just next to my other HIFI equipment. Then when I move my Host/server pc out of HIFI room (since network cable could run very far), I got another level of improvement. My understanding is simple, Hifi just don't mix well with digital equipment. Mainly noise get injected and radiate everywhere, via AC supply line, ground plane, over the air etc. By placing digital equipment, far away, first, the ground plane don't connect direct to each other, second, the AC line are much further to HIFI equip. Noise usually in the high freq range don't propagate far. Thus the benefit of using a simple, low noise audio network endpoint is clear!
(append: for whatever reason my ascii drawing did not show up as intended, I will amend later)

1686152406728.png



Second function DDC. I won't explain much on this function much. In old days, USB implementation in the DAC not that good, and couple with noisy PC connect direct to the DAC, sound very "digital". Thus DDC product come out mainly to break the noise to the DAC, reclock, output to DAC via other format like AES, coax, optical, I2S etc (which the DAC input is well implemented). Personally, I don't use any DDC as long as the USB implementation is Good and use of low noise streamer.

Above is just my experience and all are welcome to discuss in civil manner. Of course each of us have different hearing and experience, and welcome to do whatever suits you. After all the above way of optimization is way cheaper if you think about it in depth.
 

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Jun 5, 2023 at 10:30 PM Post #1,008 of 1,883
let me try to summarized the function of Red and hopefully member can understand why there's a product like Red.

First Function, streamer. Make sure you don't plug in anything in the USB in of the Red. (Else it will force the Red to function as DDC and won't boot up the sd card OS). Red need to have the SD card plug in to the slot with linux base (correct me if wrong) OS that turn a Pi base controller into a mini PC with the purpose to function as a music network endpoint. Protocol supported by it depends on the OS, e.g. Roon, sportify, NAA, UPNP, airplay etc. And it will output via USB out, coax, optical, AES, I2S. With May, since both Red and May support 1.5M in PCM to me it's no brainer to stick to USB out to May. Then you need to have a host/server where you would run music library software and send your music to Red as streamer. You can run Roon, Jriver etc. Most of these music library software come with "controller" app option, to use phone or ipad to browse your library on your host/server and play it to Red (audio network endpoint)

Some people might ask why do we need this Audio Network Endpoint while we can connect to our DAC from our PC directly. Back about 10 years ago, when one of the first streamer audio network endpoint come out (micro rendu), it seriously change the quality of computer Hifi scene. I was shock too with the elevation of sound quality with this method compare to a highly optimized PC (fanless, bare win server with audio optimizer software, linear PS etc) connect direct to the DAC via USB sitting just next to my other HIFI equipment. Then when I move my Host/server pc out of HIFI room (since network cable could run very far), I got another level of improvement. My understanding is simple, Hifi just don't mix well with digital equipment. Mainly noise get injected and radiate everywhere, via AC supply line, ground plane, over the air etc. By placing digital equipment, far away, first, the ground plane don't connect direct to each other, second, the AC line are much further to HIFI equip. Noise usually in the high freq range don't propagate far. Thus the benefit of using a simple, low noise audio network endpoint is clear!
(append: for whatever reason my ascii drawing did not show up as intended, I will amend later)


not ideal:

AC line
Circuit breaker--------------------------------------------------> Hifi equip
|__> PC and other RF noise equip


ideal: (this explain why some old school lay separate AC line for Hifi)
AC line
Circuit breaker--------------------------------------------------> Hifi equip
| |--------------------------------------------> audio network endpoint (streamer)
| | network Lan
| |
| |
| ---------------------------------------------<---
| network Lan |
_------------------------------------------------> PC and other RF noise equip (router, switch)
AC line

Second function DDC. I won't explain much on this function much. In old days, USB implementation in the DAC not that good, and couple with noisy PC connect direct to the DAC, sound very "digital". Thus DDC product come out mainly to break the noise to the DAC, reclock, output to DAC via other format like AES, coax, optical, I2S etc (which the DAC input is well implemented). Personally, I don't use any DDC as long as the USB implementation is Good and use of low noise streamer.

Above is just my experience and all are welcome to discuss in civil manner. Of course each of us have different hearing and experience, and welcome to do whatever suits you. After all the above way of optimization is way cheaper if you think about it in depth.
Excellent summary. Thank you. Perhaps you should be writing the user manuals for Holo Audio, because none of this is in there. If there is truly a weak link in their product it is useful documentation and customer support.

As an addition, one other thing that can be very confusing about the RED is how to attach a USB drive to it and stream from that. People have done it, but I'm not sure how.
 
Jun 5, 2023 at 11:30 PM Post #1,009 of 1,883
Excellent summary. Thank you. Perhaps you should be writing the user manuals for Holo Audio, because none of this is in there. If there is truly a weak link in their product it is useful documentation and customer support.

As an addition, one other thing that can be very confusing about the RED is how to attach a USB drive to it and stream from that. People have done it, but I'm not sure how.
Actually I own micro rendu, SOTM sms200 ultra, all these streamer don't really come with detail manual. I guess after all these streamer has been in the market for quite some time there is not much need to have a detail manual for it. I do acknowledge for the benefit of new user a good manual is needed, which forums platform might fill the gaps.

First I don't think Red by default support the use of thumbdrive and play music files locally plug to Red. Most streamer don't support. Since Red is a highly customize Pi platform, there is only one USB input (not sure it works, don't quote me, I don't have Red), you can try these. but I think you need other OS, like Mood, RopieeeXL etc (I play with Mood before it does support, not sure of others) the default Red OS don't really support playing of music files on thumbdrive plug to the Red. You need to have some understanding of how other OS work and how to access the GUI interface of these OS.

Connect Red to the network. Flash sd card with other OS that support playing of files locally. plug in the sd card, plug in thumb drive with music files, power up, use another device with browser key in the address of the Red, and browse the files and play.

If this sequence doesn't work, unplug the thumb drive first, then power up the Red, let the OS boot, plug in the thumb drive, it should detect the drive and music files in it, use another device with browser key in the address of the Red, and browse the files and play.

For this part I must credit Holo Audio for using Open platform that users are free to use other OS for it's hardware Red. Just like their DAC as well, OS processing could let others freely choose to do on other platform. What Holo audio did is to do it's job well, ensure hardware are well design and built.

Previously I use Raspberry Pi 3B + hifiberry digit+ pro as audio network end point with Mood. It can auto switch from end point mode, bluetooth stream, and local files playing without any issue.
 
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Jun 6, 2023 at 12:15 PM Post #1,010 of 1,883
My OCD is triggered..

I received my RED Last night, yay.

I plugged it in, started listening to music, and noticed the channels were switched, L became R, and R became L, compared to my normal setup. What gives... All I did was connect it via USB. Anyone else experienced a L/R channel switch when using the Red? Cheers
 
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Jun 7, 2023 at 3:25 AM Post #1,012 of 1,883
My OCD is triggered..

I received my RED Last night, yay.

I plugged it in, started listening to music, and noticed the channels were switched, L became R, and R became L, compared to my normal setup. What gives... All I did was connect it via USB. Anyone else experienced a L/R channel switch when using the Red? Cheers
I think there was a similar issue reported but on an I2S connection. Then tumblers underside of RED can come handy.
 
Jun 7, 2023 at 5:32 AM Post #1,013 of 1,883
My OCD is triggered..

I received my RED Last night, yay.

I plugged it in, started listening to music, and noticed the channels were switched, L became R, and R became L, compared to my normal setup. What gives... All I did was connect it via USB. Anyone else experienced a L/R channel switch when using the Red? Cheers
My May does this from time to time. Just go around the inputs once, till you get back to the USB. It should reverse the channels. If not, restart the DAC.
 
Jun 7, 2023 at 12:19 PM Post #1,014 of 1,883
Yeah kinda strange that it switched channels. My current setup is USB or Ethernet in, and I2S out. It's switched with both Ethernet and USB. I just swapped the XLR's around - but my color coordinated OCD was in full effect. I wonder if it was the I2S cable that caused it - that'll be switched with a new-to-me Tubulus soon, and hopefully will revert. If an I2S can even switch channels. It's not a big deal to just switch an XLR cable around so it works properly again. Sounds like that's a thing that can happen though.

I think there was a similar issue reported but on an I2S connection. Then tumblers underside of RED can come handy.
Sorry but I'm unfamiliar with what the Tumbler's underside of Red could mean, could you explain?
 
Jun 7, 2023 at 1:57 PM Post #1,015 of 1,883
Yeah kinda strange that it switched channels. My current setup is USB or Ethernet in, and I2S out. It's switched with both Ethernet and USB. I just swapped the XLR's around - but my color coordinated OCD was in full effect. I wonder if it was the I2S cable that caused it - that'll be switched with a new-to-me Tubulus soon, and hopefully will revert. If an I2S can even switch channels. It's not a big deal to just switch an XLR cable around so it works properly again. Sounds like that's a thing that can happen though.


Sorry but I'm unfamiliar with what the Tumbler's underside of Red could mean, could you explain?
I assume you mean these switches.
Dips.jpeg


Dip Switch[1: 2]
Pinout 00 Holo
01 ALT2
10 ALT1
11 ALT3
Set the DIP switch [3] to enable I²S_DSD_ON;
DIP switch [4] sets I²S_MCLK frequency, ON is 45.1584M/49.152M, OFF is 22.5792M/24.576M.
 
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Jun 7, 2023 at 2:47 PM Post #1,016 of 1,883
I'm not home to test, but does keeping switch #3 off disable DSD output through the Red? If it's enabled, does that have any sort of deficit on the outbound signal? I like to switch between PCM & DSD regularly. Hm.. Definitely going to be trying that tonight as I can't find any answers in the thread.

1686165182081.png


1686165217094.png


Looks like my Gustard R26 uses a different/unusual I2S pinout format than the Holo version. It's basically the reverse of Holo, that's why I was experiencing a L/R channel switch. I should switch the Pinouts to the ALT1 configuration by the looks of things. Only difference I'm seeing here is at Pin 15, but that's a topic for a different thread. Cheers guys.
 
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Jun 7, 2023 at 3:24 PM Post #1,017 of 1,883
I use the Holo Red as a streamer with my Denafrips Terminator connected by I2s. I have pin 2 and 3 ON. I have also had to configure the I2s in the Terminator so that the channels and the phase are correct. Everything works correctly for me reproducing the original format of the recording. I can get everything to output in DSD with HqPlayer but it doesn't.
 
Jun 7, 2023 at 3:46 PM Post #1,018 of 1,883
@DivinesGaming

Pin 15 NC = not connected, on all settings, looks like the same issue with Gustard DACs as with the Audio-Gd DI-20HE - Gustard DACs do not auto-detect DSD so need a DSD flag on Pin 15.
 

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