[Timbuk2]

I have decided to bite the bullet and see whether the FiiO K9 Pro ESS could possibly be holding me back. As such, I have found the Bliss KTE particularly appealing.

Given this, I listen predominately to classical music, whereby I was wondering how well folks have found the Bliss to handle the texture and tactility of strings and perhaps brass in more aggressive works like Mahler or Brahms symphonies. In upgrading from a less powerful mind THX amp (whatever one may think of such; I think it sounds great, textured, and incisive, though my perception may change by the day from excellence to discontent), do you folks hear a marked increase in tactility or incisiveness, ideally without introducing harshness? Tactility can also of course depend on the specific recording, but I am wondering of whether the tactility and immersive presence or vividness of strings and other acoustic instruments could possibly be improved toward the live experience that I presently regularly attend as a reference. If some of you find the Bliss rather soft, what alternative amps within the Bliss KTE price range would you recommend as exhibiting this "incisive, textured aggressiveness and vivid richness without harshness"? Or would it be worth shooting higher than the Bliss KTE?

Here's my experience with Bliss, got one shortly after it was released... Soft, no. Vivid, dynamic, transparent, immersive, holographic, neutral without being sterile, engaging, pitch black background, yes. But I only achieved that fully after controlling AC line noise in my abode. Then I started hearing amazing texture and tactility. I began to hear subtle plucks and vibrations of strings, the texture of rosin on the bow, something dropping on the floor yards away, musicians breathing, that kind of detail. Guitars became visceral, with intoxicating texture I never knew existed. Listening to even old studio recordings brought me closer to the feeling of a live performance. Instruments and vocals sound strikingly REAL. That level of detail seems easily obscured by noise, at each stage along the chain, source being probably the most critical. I've found Bliss to be very revealing of any defects in the chain, part of the trade off and blessing. So for instance, when it sounded a bit lean, I worked with cabling to my cans, found silver coated copper returned the body that I wanted. I discovered that synergy of components is important. As discussed further back in this thread, because of the lack of harshness, it's easy with Bliss to listen at volume levels that probably aren't good for our hearing, so there's that...

Currently my chain is an AMD laptop with Realtek HD sound>Qobuz ASIO>OFCC USB>May KTE>Hapa Ember (copper) XLR>Bliss KTE>silver coated copper XLR to HD660S2, so that's my reference. If you use the ESS Dac in your amp, looking at a good R2R Dac might help reduce harshness. To my ears, ESS chips sound very detailed but tend towards treble brightness, but that could have been an implementation issue in ones I sampled. I haven't heard a TOTL ESS Dac, but once I heard a good R2R Dac, there was no looking back for me, ha. It's whatever sounds best to your ears...

Seems a good tube amp may also give you the qualities you are looking for, with more flexibility in tweaking the sound... I've tried a tube preamp with Bliss, and eventually returned to just Bliss. When fed with clean power, signal and cabling, it checks all my boxes, no harshness at higher volume, no sonic adjustments are needed. I just get lost in music.

 

[Timbuk2]

I just received a notification from another member about the track “Layla arranged for guitar by Marcin” being played allot at AXPONA. Found it on Apple Music and powered up my Holo May and Bliss using my Susvara.

Without any warmup it sounds terrific. The bass, the details and sound of the arrangement are terrific. Check it out if you can. Fabulous finger work.

Cool, thanks for the tip, enjoyed that track very much, would make Al Di Meola proud, ha. Love the "shimmer" of the strings as his fingers move, if that's the right word. When I crave guitars, I usually fall back on two standbys... Pink Floyd's Money, for the amazing reverb and soundstage. Another is an oldie but goodie, Hot Chocolate's Every 1's a winner, for the amazing textures. May/Bliss rocks!

 

[walterboss]

To my ears, ESS chips sound very detailed but tend towards treble brightness, but that could have been an implementation issue in ones I sampled.

A reflection of a noisy system, perhaps, before you cleaned it up? treble brightness is often a symptom of a noisy system. Many mistake that noise for detail too.

 

[Timbuk2]

A reflection of a noisy system, perhaps, before you cleaned it up? treble brightness is often a symptom of a noisy system. Many mistake that noise for detail too.

I was comparing to AKM chips at the time, with external Dacs, but noise is the audio killer, fur sure. Good point. Until you clean up noise, it's hard to distinguish... It can manifest in various ways.

 

[incredulousity]

Here's my experience with Bliss, got one shortly after it was released... Soft, no. Vivid, dynamic, transparent, immersive, holographic, neutral without being sterile, engaging, pitch black background, yes. But I only achieved that fully after controlling AC line noise in my abode. Then I started hearing amazing texture and tactility. I began to hear subtle plucks and vibrations of strings, the texture of rosin on the bow, something dropping on the floor yards away, musicians breathing, that kind of detail. Guitars became visceral, with intoxicating texture I never knew existed. Listening to even old studio recordings brought me closer to the feeling of a live performance. Instruments and vocals sound strikingly REAL. That level of detail seems easily obscured by noise, at each stage along the chain, source being probably the most critical. I've found Bliss to be very revealing of any defects in the chain, part of the trade off and blessing. So for instance, when it sounded a bit lean, I worked with cabling to my cans, found silver coated copper returned the body that I wanted. I discovered that synergy of components is important. As discussed further back in this thread, because of the lack of harshness, it's easy with Bliss to listen at volume levels that probably aren't good for our hearing, so there's that...

Currently my chain is an AMD laptop with Realtek HD sound>Qobuz ASIO>OFCC USB>May KTE>Hapa Ember (copper) XLR>Bliss KTE>silver coated copper XLR to HD660S2, so that's my reference. If you use the ESS Dac in your amp, looking at a good R2R Dac might help reduce harshness. To my ears, ESS chips sound very detailed but tend towards treble brightness, but that could have been an implementation issue in ones I sampled. I haven't heard a TOTL ESS Dac, but once I heard a good R2R Dac, there was no looking back for me, ha. It's whatever sounds best to your ears...

Seems a good tube amp may also give you the qualities you are looking for, with more flexibility in tweaking the sound... I've tried a tube preamp with Bliss, and eventually returned to just Bliss. When fed with clean power, signal and cabling, it checks all my boxes, no harshness at higher volume, no sonic adjustments are needed. I just get lost in music.

You need a Hapa KnØt headphone cable, but that would then start a very bad cascade of increasingly expensive headphones.

 

[AcousticMatt]

Here's my experience with Bliss, got one shortly after it was released... Soft, no. Vivid, dynamic, transparent, immersive, holographic, neutral without being sterile, engaging, pitch black background, yes. But I only achieved that fully after controlling AC line noise in my abode. Then I started hearing amazing texture and tactility. I began to hear subtle plucks and vibrations of strings, the texture of rosin on the bow, something dropping on the floor yards away, musicians breathing, that kind of detail. Guitars became visceral, with intoxicating texture I never knew existed. Listening to even old studio recordings brought me closer to the feeling of a live performance. Instruments and vocals sound strikingly REAL. That level of detail seems easily obscured by noise, at each stage along the chain, source being probably the most critical. I've found Bliss to be very revealing of any defects in the chain, part of the trade off and blessing. So for instance, when it sounded a bit lean, I worked with cabling to my cans, found silver coated copper returned the body that I wanted. I discovered that synergy of components is important. As discussed further back in this thread, because of the lack of harshness, it's easy with Bliss to listen at volume levels that probably aren't good for our hearing, so there's that...

Currently my chain is an AMD laptop with Realtek HD sound>Qobuz ASIO>OFCC USB>May KTE>Hapa Ember (copper) XLR>Bliss KTE>silver coated copper XLR to HD660S2, so that's my reference. If you use the ESS Dac in your amp, looking at a good R2R Dac might help reduce harshness. To my ears, ESS chips sound very detailed but tend towards treble brightness, but that could have been an implementation issue in ones I sampled. I haven't heard a TOTL ESS Dac, but once I heard a good R2R Dac, there was no looking back for me, ha. It's whatever sounds best to your ears...

Seems a good tube amp may also give you the qualities you are looking for, with more flexibility in tweaking the sound... I've tried a tube preamp with Bliss, and eventually returned to just Bliss. When fed with clean power, signal and cabling, it checks all my boxes, no harshness at higher volume, no sonic adjustments are needed. I just get lost in music.

I find this post fascinating as I'm in need of a new power strip. Was going to get another Audioquest, but was recommended an iFi Power Station instead for the same reason you wrote - cutting out noise. Curious if you've had experience with it, or if you're using something else to help the noise in the signal? I have a May (KTE) coming in as well as an Innuos ZENith, and from everything I've been reading with both, everything in the chain really matters. Noise happening in my chain is something I haven't honed in on until recently, so I'm learning...

 

[MrHaelscheir]

I find this post fascinating as I'm in need of a new power strip. Was going to get another Audioquest, but was recommended an iFi Power Station instead for the same reason you wrote - cutting out noise. Curious if you've had experience with it, or if you're using something else to help the noise in the signal? I have a May (KTE) coming in as well as an Innuos ZENith, and from everything I've been reading with both, everything in the chain really matters. Noise happening in my chain is something I haven't honed in on until recently, so I'm learning...

How exactly are you hearing the "noise" in your system? Is it an actual background hiss even when not playing music? I feel that I hear a "black background" just fine with my FiiO K9 Pro ESS, its also depending highly on the the recording. Headphone frequency response as coupled with your own ear also has a chance of amplifying higher frequency noise bands within the actual recording. As for noise when actually playing music, I highly recommend installing some form of digital FFT spectrum analyzer to see if the noise is actually part of the recording itself, whereby you can see what noise floor in dB full-scale is audible to you. The one thing I don't know or doubt is the case of noise modulating with the signal itself. How do you know if it's your gear exhibiting multi-tone distortion, your gear somehow increasing the noise in the specific raised frequency band, the recording itself capturing microphone multi-tone distortion, or some special mixing and mastering side processing that reduces the noise in specific frequency bands until the points where the music actually exercises those bands?

 

[AcousticMatt]

How exactly are you hearing the "noise" in your system? Is it an actual background hiss even when not playing music? I feel that I hear a "black background" just fine with my FiiO K9 Pro ESS, its also depending highly on the the recording. Headphone frequency response as coupled with your own ear also has a chance of amplifying higher frequency noise bands within the actual recording. As for noise when actually playing music, I highly recommend installing some form of digital FFT spectrum analyzer to see if the noise is actually part of the recording itself, whereby you can see what noise floor in dB full-scale is audible to you. The one thing I don't know or doubt is the case of noise modulating with the signal itself. How do you know if it's your gear exhibiting multi-tone distortion, your gear somehow increasing the noise in the specific raised frequency band, the recording itself capturing microphone multi-tone distortion, or some special mixing and mastering side processing that reduces the noise in specific frequency bands until the points where the music actually exercises those bands?

Ok, this is great - I'm not actually hearing any noise. And, exactly, there's so many variables. Hard to make a choice sometimes because of them. I'm think I can hear when it is the recording though - easier to tell when the song or albums ends and it goes away completely.

I guess I'm curious though if I'd get something like the iFi Power Station and with a better source like the Innuos (and hopefully better tone for my preference, which I'm hoping will be the May) then the iFi would show me that there was indeed noise happening that was impacting the sound I wasn't even aware of.

 

[Timbuk2]

I find this post fascinating as I'm in need of a new power strip. Was going to get another Audioquest, but was recommended an iFi Power Station instead for the same reason you wrote - cutting out noise. Curious if you've had experience with it, or if you're using something else to help the noise in the signal? I have a May (KTE) coming in as well as an Innuos ZENith, and from everything I've been reading with both, everything in the chain really matters. Noise happening in my chain is something I haven't honed in on until recently, so I'm learning...

Yeah, we're all learning in this black hole of a hobby. As not to hog this thread, maybe we should chat about all this in messaging? PM if interested... I'm confident someone else in this thread can offer a much better explanation, but by noise, I mean variances in the electrical AC wave, as it goes into the system. Spikes or jags in an otherwise smooth wave show up as noise. This noise can show up in loss of subtle details. Then there's also noise generated or picked up in cabling and electronics themselves. So yeah, we have to look at the whole system to root out noise, from the outlet to the cans... I didn't realize how important this is until I heard the difference. It gets us closer to the max performance from our gear, to hear what it's truly capable of. Dang Pandora's box.

Congrats on the May KTE. You are in for a real treat!

 

[chrisnyc75]

Here's my experience with Bliss, got one shortly after it was released... Soft, no. Vivid, dynamic, transparent, immersive, holographic, neutral without being sterile, engaging, pitch black background, yes. But I only achieved that fully after controlling AC line noise in my abode. Then I started hearing amazing texture and tactility. I began to hear subtle plucks and vibrations of strings, the texture of rosin on the bow, something dropping on the floor yards away, musicians breathing, that kind of detail. Guitars became visceral, with intoxicating texture I never knew existed. Listening to even old studio recordings brought me closer to the feeling of a live performance. Instruments and vocals sound strikingly REAL. That level of detail seems easily obscured by noise, at each stage along the chain, source being probably the most critical. I've found Bliss to be very revealing of any defects in the chain, part of the trade off and blessing. So for instance, when it sounded a bit lean, I worked with cabling to my cans, found silver coated copper returned the body that I wanted. I discovered that synergy of components is important. As discussed further back in this thread, because of the lack of harshness, it's easy with Bliss to listen at volume levels that probably aren't good for our hearing, so there's that...

Currently my chain is an AMD laptop with Realtek HD sound>Qobuz ASIO>OFCC USB>May KTE>Hapa Ember (copper) XLR>Bliss KTE>silver coated copper XLR to HD660S2, so that's my reference. If you use the ESS Dac in your amp, looking at a good R2R Dac might help reduce harshness. To my ears, ESS chips sound very detailed but tend towards treble brightness, but that could have been an implementation issue in ones I sampled. I haven't heard a TOTL ESS Dac, but once I heard a good R2R Dac, there was no looking back for me, ha. It's whatever sounds best to your ears...

Seems a good tube amp may also give you the qualities you are looking for, with more flexibility in tweaking the sound... I've tried a tube preamp with Bliss, and eventually returned to just Bliss. When fed with clean power, signal and cabling, it checks all my boxes, no harshness at higher volume, no sonic adjustments are needed. I just get lost in music.

I think it's hard for anyone who hasn't heard it to reconcile "smooth & organic" with "punchy & extremely dynamic" at the same time. But that really is what it is.

I find this post fascinating as I'm in need of a new power strip. Was going to get another Audioquest, but was recommended an iFi Power Station instead for the same reason you wrote - cutting out noise. Curious if you've had experience with it, or if you're using something else to help the noise in the signal? I have a May (KTE) coming in as well as an Innuos ZENith, and from everything I've been reading with both, everything in the chain really matters. Noise happening in my chain is something I haven't honed in on until recently, so I'm learning...

Power delivery really is a whole topic of its own and should be kept to threads dedicated to it, but fwiw I've had very good results with PS Audio's PowerPlant. The theory is nevermind "cleaning" the power, just generate a whole new perfectly clean sine-wave right from the start.

 

[lllkkkoo]

I Had a old accuphase power supply unit that i didnt use because i found it provided no sonical benefit, until fast forward i moved to another place.

the unit has a button that will show input and output distortion, during the time ive had the unit, i have never seen the needle of the unit move, until the latest place that is as shown on the screenshot (my last place, needle was at 0)

Summary... in this new place, for 4 months i couldnt enjoy audio at all (and almost made me quit audio alltogether) until i used the power supply, whereas my 10 years back in audio, i didnt need to use it at all.

WIth bliss and holo spring.

 

[walterboss]

TLDR: Downgrading from Feliks Envy to Bliss?

I'm exploring the possibility of selling my Envy and upgraded tubes.

There are a few reasons. But basically I love the Envy. Adore it. But having explored some suuper higher end amps/dacs recently, I'm feeling like I'd be happy with a system that's not quite at the level of Envy. Good enough ultimately, and a decent bit cheaper.

The Bliss seems to fit the bill as it seems to sound fantastic, meatier than most SS amps, and will drive my 1266 and Susvara.

There are trade offs here of course. The 1266 relishes tubes. Sus is fantastic with tubes but I'm satisfied this wouldn't be as much of an issue as with the 1266.

The reason for this post, though, is that I currently have an XIAUDIO Formula S and Powerman stack. And I'm trying to figure out how far behind the Bliss it is.

I can't find any impressions comparing both. What leads me to Bliss is its ability to drive Susvara very very well. And the XIAUDIO from experience, doesn't quite get it there. It's still a beautiful headphone on FS+P, but compared to Envy it's a different beast. Exceptional.

I'm not expecting Envy performance for the Sus on a Bliss. But I think it might do better than the XIAUDIO.

But all of this is a wash if the XIAUDIO doesn't really trail that far behind the Bliss. A brief comparison a few days ago confirmed to me that the Envy is indeed miles ahead of the XIAUDIO. I just don't know if the Bliss is miles ahead of XIAUDIO – if at all.

Open to opinions on this.

Cheers!

 

[Leto Dal]

TLDR: Downgrading from Feliks Envy to Bliss?

I'm exploring the possibility of selling my Envy and upgraded tubes.

There are a few reasons. But basically I love the Envy. Adore it. But having explored some suuper higher end amps/dacs recently, I'm feeling like I'd be happy with a system that's not quite at the level of Envy. Good enough ultimately, and a decent bit cheaper.

The Bliss seems to fit the bill as it seems to sound fantastic, meatier than most SS amps, and will drive my 1266 and Susvara.

There are trade offs here of course. The 1266 relishes tubes. Sus is fantastic with tubes but I'm satisfied this wouldn't be as much of an issue as with the 1266.

The reason for this post, though, is that I currently have an XIAUDIO Formula S and Powerman stack. And I'm trying to figure out how far behind the Bliss it is.

I can't find any impressions comparing both. What leads me to Bliss is its ability to drive Susvara very very well. And the XIAUDIO from experience, doesn't quite get it there. It's still a beautiful headphone on FS+P, but compared to Envy it's a different beast. Exceptional.

I'm not expecting Envy performance for the Sus on a Bliss. But I think it might do better than the XIAUDIO.

But all of this is a wash if the XIAUDIO doesn't really trail that far behind the Bliss. A brief comparison a few days ago confirmed to me that the Envy is indeed miles ahead of the XIAUDIO. I just don't know if the Bliss is miles ahead of XIAUDIO – if at all.

Open to opinions on this.

Cheers!

As someone who upgraded from Bliss to Envy recentlly I was suprised by how far Bliss is sonically from Envy with Susvara. Its not even close to be honest and I am speaking about Envy with stock Fullmusic tubes.

When it comes to other headphones though like ZMFs lineup, while Verite Open scales beautifully with Envy, it definitly rather close to Bliss and could even sound better from an OTL like Feliks Euphoria that is 1k nowdays on second hand market. Caldera - while it benefits from the tube timbre, it doesnt get any more detail, bass or depth from Envy, infact its perfectly fine with a high end dap like DX320 Max.

Envy is expensive and probably my biggest investment in audio so far and I love it. I love the ability to shape the sound with tubes. Its beautiful what it does with ZMF headphones and with power hungry Planars like Susvara and Tungsten. Still I think only few headphones can benefit from it fully, Susvara being the top contender. If you are not planning to use Susvara as daily driver or run something like Tungsten or Immanis / Magna in the future, downgrading to Bliss is definitly the right move, Caldera on Bliss is a beautiful experience. But IF you expect similar sonical perfomance from Bliss with Sus - it will be a huge let down.

 

[KingLCD3]

Has anyone heard a Bliss paired with a Denafrips Venus dac?

I have the Venus 2, and have been interested in the Bliss ever since it came out.

My headphones are Hifiman HEKSE and Audeze LCD3.

Thanks

 

[walterboss]

...But IF you expect similar sonical perfomance from Bliss with Sus - it will be a huge let down.

It's a conundrum for sure, because if I were to remove Sus from my lineup, it would change things dramatically for me...but the Sus is indeed so so good on Envy. And I'm planning to add a Utopia to my second-tier and that works better on tubes, IME.

Compromising Sus (compared to performance on Envy) is the biggest piece of the puzzle.

Thanks a lot for the considered response