Hiss on HD650
Feb 22, 2007 at 4:59 AM Post #16 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by shoenberg3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No hiss. It's my files?
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Absolutely.
Lots of great older recordings were recorded with what was top of the line equipment for that time.
Unfortuneately, Signal to noise ratios were really very bad until very recent history.

Don't buy any remaster from the 90's either...

...be patient, as a lot of beautiful SACD/DVD-A 24/96 remasters are on the way.
The high-end audio mastering software of the last 2-3 years can now lock in on hiss, and use sidechain-like extra-ordinarily narrow band EQ to eliminate it entirely, then smoothly & naturally spackles from the surrounding frequencies, at levels appropriate for what those freqs are doing @ that point in the song.

Be patient.
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Feb 22, 2007 at 5:21 AM Post #18 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's amazing how many people instantly blurt out new amp like it's Dr Bobs miracle cure all with the 650, irrespective of what the problem might be.


Actually, my first comment was directed towards him saying the 650s aren't much better than E500s. His post makes it seem as though he was disappointed with the Senns more than a hissing problem.
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 9:14 AM Post #19 of 68
The Total Bithead is absolutely fine for driving the HD650s. The reason the HD650 picks up hiss on the recordings more than the E500s is because it has significantly better treble extension than the E500s. This will of course make any hiss more noticable.
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 10:19 AM Post #20 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by JLai /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If you're not hearing hiss with the music off, then yes...its your files. Bad recordings.


Yes it could be bad recordings as mentioned, or it could simply depend on what you're listening too... I have yet to hear a piece of classical music that doesn't contain an annoying amount of hiss. The 650s are likely making this more apparent to you due to there wide range.
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 7:37 PM Post #21 of 68
Graphicism, you must have had horrible luck in your presumably short-lived foray into classical music
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. Seriously though, many classical recordings have varying levels of hiss, moreso than some studio-recorded rock/pop music - especially older recordings (obviously). However, there are *countless* classical recordings of all types that have pristine, audiophile-quality sound.

In a brief experiment, I chose three of my favorite recordings and listened deliberately for hiss (using lossless files on Foobar2k + ASIO4All, HD650 on Total Bithead via USB, gain low, battery power on and crossfeed off). I put the volume WAY up on the quiet passages and silent spots, and guess what? Virtually nothing on two of them, and only very minor hiss on one. Here were the three tracks I checked:

1. Stephen Hough & Dallas Symphony Orchestra, Rachmaninov Piano Concerto #1 I. Vivace - no hiss at all (even at extremely loud setting)
2. Yoel Levi / Atlantic Symphony Orchestra, Mahler Symphony 2 I. Allegro Maestoso - no hiss at all (on max volume but low gain; recording is quiet, might be hiss if I could get it louder without switching gain setting).
3. Leonard Bernstein / NYPO, Aaron Copland Appalacian Spring 7. Doppio Movimento - minor hiss when volume is turned up too loud (as in, beyond normal listening volume)

Anyway, just a random illustration. If I went through my collection carefully I'm sure I'd find many other examples of zero to almost inaudible hiss (just as I'm sure I'd find some with very prominent hiss... I have an historic Rachmaninov recording that is almost unlistenable
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).
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 8:12 PM Post #22 of 68
I've had the opposite experience with hiss and my HD650s. My listening setup most appropriate to this context is Apple Lossless (and a smattering of 320 mp3s) on 4G iPod to ALO Cotton Dock to MicroAmp (medium gain, crossfeed on and off) to Senn 650s (with Cardas and stock cables). I've experienced no hiss AT ALL whether on battery or AC power.

A sampling of my listening with this setup: Bach, Complete Violin Sonatas BWV 1014–1023 (Grumiaux); Chopin Études (Perahia); Béla Bartók, 44 Duos, Sz. 98 (Sandor Vegh, Alberto Lysy); Bach, Complete Lute Suites (Isbin); Ali Akbar Moradi, Fire of Passion (this is traditional Iranian Kurdish music, not a "great") recording; Aphex Twin, Drukqs; Bill Evans and Jim Hall, Undercurrent (again, not a great recording, but no hiss); Bob Dylan, Blood on the Tracks; Mingus, Ah Um; Earth, Hex: Or Printing In The Infernal Method; Eric Dolphy, Out to Lunch; Miles Davis, Miles Smiles and Kind of Blue.

I'm new to the "hobby" but what has surprised me most is the total absence of hiss, even on older recordings from the 1960s (Dylan, Dolphy, Davis, Evans and Hall), and even on quiet passages at higher than usual (for me) listening volume. Note too, that much of my classical listening is to solo or duo instrumentation and I would expect that hiss would be most apparent on these recordings as opposed to orchestral recordings.

Based on my very limited experience, if you're looking for the hissing link in your chain, I'd like somewhere other than the 650s.

Good luck Graphicism!

cheers,
M__
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 8:50 PM Post #23 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by gabedamien /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Graphicism, you must have had horrible luck in your presumably short-lived foray into classical music
evil_smiley.gif
. Seriously though, many classical recordings have varying levels of hiss, moreso than some studio-recorded rock/pop music - especially older recordings (obviously). However, there are *countless* classical recordings of all types that have pristine, audiophile-quality sound.

In a brief experiment, I chose three of my favorite recordings and listened deliberately for hiss (using lossless files on Foobar2k + ASIO4All, HD650 on Total Bithead via USB, gain low, battery power on and crossfeed off). I put the volume WAY up on the quiet passages and silent spots, and guess what? Virtually nothing on two of them, and only very minor hiss on one. Here were the three tracks I checked:

1. Stephen Hough & Dallas Symphony Orchestra, Rachmaninov Piano Concerto #1 I. Vivace - no hiss at all (even at extremely loud setting)
2. Yoel Levi / Atlantic Symphony Orchestra, Mahler Symphony 2 I. Allegro Maestoso - no hiss at all (on max volume but low gain; recording is quiet, might be hiss if I could get it louder without switching gain setting).
3. Leonard Bernstein / NYPO, Aaron Copland Appalacian Spring 7. Doppio Movimento - minor hiss when volume is turned up too loud (as in, beyond normal listening volume)

Anyway, just a random illustration. If I went through my collection carefully I'm sure I'd find many other examples of zero to almost inaudible hiss (just as I'm sure I'd find some with very prominent hiss... I have an historic Rachmaninov recording that is almost unlistenable
tongue.gif
).



BTW, my bithead's low-gain is not robust enough to drive HD650 to loud volumes. Plus, when used with ASIO, it has this annoying high-pitched tone...
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 8:55 PM Post #24 of 68
I'm not the OP so I don't want to take away from what he was asking about, I was simply stating that most classical music in my admittedly short-lived classical life has some level of hiss. In fact I can't stand any hiss what-so-ever, to me it either means old, or bad recording levels (i.e. +1db).

I don't have 650s I have 580s and I don't blame the hiss on my equipment but the music I listen too. It really does depend on your equipment to what you are hearing, for instance I can plug my 580s straight into my computer sound card and get little to no hiss on tracks I otherwise would be hearing a disturbing amount with, however at the same time I loose all the details that are provided with my source/DAP and amp.

A most noticable link in my chain that I have mentioned before that increases the level of hiss is my BlueJeans LC1 cable, it opens up the soundstage and detail so much over a standard cable you start hearing these extra details and unfortunately flaws in poorly recorded music.
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 9:22 PM Post #26 of 68
radiohead being a slightly adventurous group will by default have some interesting artifacts to their music, but i would not put it all down to the songs and recordings. i have heard terrible hiss and grain from 320kps mp3 that had to do with the encoder being of low-grade rubbish. what encoder are you using? otherwise? what drivers? i think that it should not be the amp/soundcard, but something further in. if you use a standard mp3 encoder in any major software, that too should be fine. i had heaps hiss before using a xitel product, but only on certain settings.

the hd650 will never be source of any problem other than the need for better components, so please do not blame that until everything else you own is of such higher calibre that there is nothing else left to blame...
 
Feb 22, 2007 at 10:55 PM Post #27 of 68
Well, I wasn't confused as to who was the OP, I just wanted to defend classical recordings to Graphicism
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. Anyway it's not a big deal, as I said before there are plenty of classical recordings with significant noise so I can totally understand if that (unfortunately) formed the bulk of someone's limited experience with the genre. One of the challenges of classical is doing the research to find the best recording of any given piece, and usually by "best" people mean the finest performance/interpretation, not the technical quality of the recording. Still, there are plenty of recordings out there that are both superb technically and in terms of performance, like that Mahler disc I mentioned; I wouldn't want a potential classical music lover to be turned off of the subject by a couple of sub-audiophile grade discs.
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ANYWAY, back to the original thread; unfortunately I don't have any of the recordings you mentioned, Shoenberg3, so I cannot comment on your source files. It's funny, I can get the HD650 on low gain setting to go WAY louder than anything I would ever voluntarily listen to, on the vast majority of my recordings (some notable exceptions). Also, on many recordings I have absolutely zero hiss. I'm wondering if there's some more siginificant problem with your setup that hasn't been identified.

On my computer, I usually use the following sequence:
1. Rip CDs to Apple Lossless in iTunes using error correction turned on (just to be sure, haven't had problems ripping without error correction).
2. Play in iTunes (this is a Windows computer, so yes, KMixer is doing nasty things most of the time)
3. Stream via USB to Total Bithead which is on low gain setting, USB power, crossfeed off.
4. Turn up volume to a comfortable level, which is usually very early in the travel of the volume wheel.

Plugging in my USB TBH automatically puts the computer volume sliders all at max (as it should). The iTunes volume is correctly set to max as well (double-check this! In fact, if you use iTunes, double-check all your settings).

For the purposes of the above test, I used FB2k+ASIO4All, and ran the TBH on battery, but I just did a second check using my usual settings and still zero hiss on most recordings. I also checked some of my 192 and 128 kbps AAC and MP3 files, and none of them had introduced hiss compared to the hiss-less lossless files (everything ripped via iTunes). They sounded like lossy files, which is a whole can of worms on its own, but hiss wasn't one of the worms.

Good luck figuring out what's going on,
-GLL

PS - the first time I ever heard Imogen Heap on a pair of high-end headphones (E500 through iPod) I was horrified by how breathy her tone sounded compared to my Senn PX100s. That was 95% psychology though as within about an hour of using the AKG K701 I had gotten over that initial reaction and realized how insanely better everything was about the sound in general.

Of course, one of the reasons I didn't end up liking the K701 as much as the HD650 was that the HD650 rendered female voices less extremely breathy, so...
 
Feb 25, 2007 at 8:18 PM Post #29 of 68
Absolutely zero hiss here on my HD650s. This song kicks ass, though. Definitely a headphone song.
 
Feb 25, 2007 at 8:23 PM Post #30 of 68
Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's amazing how many people instantly blurt out new amp like it's Dr Bobs miracle cure all with the 650, irrespective of what the problem might be.


I don't understand headphones of the calibur discussed on thie board could ever induce hiss on any recording unless they were not working correctly. Everytime someone complains of hiss when listening to a certain headphone, my FIRST instinct is bad components somewhere down the chain, or possibly bad recordings.

I don't ever see why the headphones would ever cause hiss problems.
 

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