[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abstraction /img/forum/go_quote.gif Okay, this is the reason I decided to start posting rather reading a lot more posts. I assume by "customs" you mean something like the jh-13s, which I just learned about today. Are there other customs? This head-fi scene is a different tribe. I was building tube as a highschool kid not because I was a tube guy but because there were any transistors, but I often don't know what people here are talking about. I am sure that portable players are never going to be great sources. You didn't find the Imod a big improvement? I am not surprise. I am using Red Wine S-70.2s in my main rig (trying to get away from noise), and I like them a lot (In fact, it is not my best sounding systems; sometimes I run that entire system on battery power), but I have been suspicious of the Imod for some reason.

There are other customs, the flagships are the Westone ES3X, Ultimate Ears UE11 pro, and Jerry Harvey Audio JH13 pro. The latter two have more affordable options that fit well within your budget.

The iMod just isn't a sensible investment, especially given now the fierce competition with other digital audio players that cost less than the iMod service itself. The money spent on an iMod can get more done for a headphone purchase or towards a solid piece of desktop equipment. Based on descriptions that put custom IEMs somewhere 20-50% sonically "better" than their universal counterparts, I am very confident that a custom IEM out of a 5.5G headphone-out will just sound better than a top-of-the-line universal counterpart out of some great portable amp attached to an iMod. (N.B. there is no universal counterpart to the JH13 pro.. Jerry Harvey doesn't mess around with universals and they have six armatures per ear; same goes for the JH11 and UE11 which have four armatures per ear [the most a universal will have is 3].)

My listening experience with convoluted and mystical portable set-ups (both iMod-based and not) in the past have led me to strongly believe that a high-end custom in-ear monitor would be the wisest investment making the most returns for your money. Time and time again owners of these units have found them comparable to some of the finest headphones in the world. The JH13 pro has been compared to both the Sony MDR-R10 and Audio Technica ATH-L3000 quite favorably. The latter two headphones are out of production and several thousands to acquire, and IEMs just are not as fiercely dependent on amplification as they are.

 

[Booda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, it doesn't hiss with every phone, and the SQ is definitely high-end when matched with the right phones. I'm not alone on that front (a few experienced HFers with true high-end gear like it a lot. It's all in the thread). There is supposed to be a firmware fix coming, who knows? Just listened to a Brubeck track with the Amp3 and the lowly Koss Ksc35s (no hiss at all), and it sounds as good as any track on any phones/DAP I have heard, but of course, my experience is limited. As you noted, it's a moot point. Sounds like you need a 160GB iMod with an iQube or something like that. Good luck sorting through all the portable amps out there, because there is no real consensus on which one is the best, not by a longshot.

The the total new version of AMP3 pro2 will be launched in early Sep. It will have no hiss!!!!

Thank CN11's informative pictures, the size of AMP3 is 74 x 40 X20mm, Sony x 1060 is 97 x 53 X10mm , Sony is larger than AMP3 AMP3 is a bit thicker.

If you really care the sound quality,you can preoder from Whiplash audio. Whiplash Audio Dynamics

 

[boomana]

Forget the amp, and get the JH13s, which will run you slightly more than $1000, but you won't be thinking about/asking about/wanting anything else for a portable system ever, unless you're using mp3s, in which case the JH13s will reveal the low quality downloads and rips.

I've been through multiple headphones and complete rigs from $100 to over $10,000 and have heard many more. These are the real deal, and because they're custom, you won't have problems with fit (maybe initially if the impressions aren't done right), and you can wear them for hours in comfort. I don't consider the JH13s portable headphones at all. They sound better than almost all full-size headphones I've heard. I just consider it a lucky break that I can take them wherever I go.

and btw, welcome to head-fi. Much of my listening is of the same artists and periods you mentioned.

 

[taz00]

I am more or less in the same boat as you.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/5-...lassic-441672/

Too many LPs and CDs ripped to Flac or wav or apple lossless so storing size is an issue.

I am looking also at the imod route but having been in the hi-end scene for some time I saw people spend stupid amounts of money upgrading cables and stuff with minimal if any improvements when that money could go to better speakers with massive improvements.

On the other hand the higher up the ladder you climb you have to pay lots of money for very small gains in performance and that goes for everything from cars to bicycles, from computers to hi-fi etc.

I did not go the custom IEM route mainly for 3reasons:

1. Money (apart from the initial investement I find it difficult to spend so much money for something that would be risked everyday to get lost, crushed etc)
2. Resale value is non-existant not to mention the fact that you have no means to try them before you buy (I live in Europe so not even universal demos for me)

So I guess what I am trying to say is I honestly do not know what to do and if the differences in sound quality are worth it when stepping up from a normal ipod to an imod or from universals to custom.

I have settled that if it takes me more than 10-15 minutes in an A-B comparison to spot considerable improvements then it is not worth paying +2x the price.

Than and the fact that portables with external amps, DACs etc start not to be so portable any more trouble me.

So I will now stop my senseless rambling and hope to read what others with actual experience have to say (write) about it.

 

[Punnisher]

The jh13 would probably hiss extremely badly from any mp3 player. The one exception would be the ipod classics which have very little. Also the ipod touch or iphone, but I haven't heard them.

Any other player, however, will likely hiss as loud as the music at times. jh13 owners will have to chime in on this one, but the low impedance and relatively high sensitivity suggest it will let through a lot of hiss.

For those of us with very good and sensitive hearing, hiss is a big issue.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punnisher /img/forum/go_quote.gif The jh13 would probably hiss extremely badly from any mp3 player. The one exception would be the ipod classics which have very little. Also the ipod touch or iphone, but I haven't heard them. Any other player, however, will likely hiss as loud as the music at times. jh13 owners will have to chime in on this one, but the low impedance and relatively high sensitivity suggest it will let through a lot of hiss. For those of us with very good and sensitive hearing, hiss is a big issue.

My 5.5G 80GB didn't hiss with my IE 8. The IE 8, for reference, is 16 ohms and 125dB/mW. I think the OP should be fine.

 

[Punnisher]

That's strange, because with all three of my 5 gen ipods (along with all my other players), I cannot use my westone UM2 straight out of the headphone jack. There is just too much hiss. Here are the specs for the Westone UM2 (which appear to be identical to the jh13)


# Sensitivity 119 dB/mW
# Impedance 27 Ohm

Hiss is also a problem with all my other in-ear phones (except for my Phonaks) but much less of a problem than the UM2.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punnisher /img/forum/go_quote.gif The jh13 would probably hiss extremely badly from any mp3 player. The one exception would be the ipod classics which have very little. Also the ipod touch or iphone, but I haven't heard them.

Have no hiss with ipod or iphone.

 

[Jack Mono]

Warning! I read posts from sound engineers that an iMod is nothing but idiocracy! There is no gain using unamped outs from the iPod as there is no such a thing (it is the same route as the phone jack). There is nothing to gain with an iMod setup. So, before I get flamed I suggest you to research this very forum to why it is the same to amp the headphone jack as using an iMod if you don't have extra money to burn and you don't want to carry around extra gear. I am sure though it has a nice placebo effect. I have to admit, I never tried an iMod.

Make sure your files are good quality... that does the trick IMHO. I have no hiss whatsoever with the Ipod Touch and the HD 485

 

[Chef]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abstraction /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks X30-- I had noticed mentions of JH-13s, but head-fi-ers do tend to speak a secret language. Very interesting. I would be willing to drop the money on them, if they are good, and it would be nice to avoid the amp--just because it would be more stuff to lug. I'll look into them. The Amp3, however, is no answer for me, unless it can use big memory cards. (Or the Sony, w/ 32 gb, either for that matter). I have a 80gb Ipod, and was thinking of buying a 160gb or perhaps two of them. Look, I'm an old guy, and I have been collecting music for a long time. I have several thousand el-p's, and nearly 2tbs of a.i.f.f. files ripped from CDs.

I hope you will reconsider this deal breaker. Huge storage space is probably going to come at the cost of SQ, if not at least in terms of your available choices.

What do you actually need 160 gigs worth of music on a portable device for? Most albums are only 500-700 megabytes in .flac format. This is more albums than you will ever listen to on the bus or on a plane. I understand the desire for choice, but if you organize your player properly, you will still have a lot of choice with a smaller player. Worst comes to worst, players with SD cards can exchange the SD cards with others... So say the main player can keep your very favourite albums (or songs, if you don't tend to listen to full albums), and your SD cards can each can each be devoted to one of your favourite genres?

It's only something to consider regarding your final decision.

Quote:

Warning! I read posts from sound engineers that an iMod is nothing but idiocracy! There is no gain using unamped outs from the iPod as there is no such a thing (it is the same route as the phone jack). There is nothing to gain with an iMod setup. So, before I get flamed I suggest you to research this very forum to why it is the same to amp the headphone jack as using an iMod if you don't have extra money to burn and you don't want to carry around extra gear. I am sure though it has a nice placebo effect. I have to admit, I never tried an iMod.

I have no doubt what you're saying is true, but I would appreciate a link to what you read so I can interpret it myself please.

 

[Punnisher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Mono /img/forum/go_quote.gif Warning! I read posts from sound engineers that an iMod is nothing but idiocracy! There is no gain using unamped outs from the iPod as there is no such a thing (it is the same route as the phone jack). There is nothing to gain with an iMod setup. So, before I get flamed I suggest you to research this very forum to why it is the same to amp the headphone jack as using an iMod if you don't have extra money to burn and you don't want to carry around extra gear. I am sure though it has a nice placebo effect. I have to admit, I never tried an iMod. Make sure your files are good quality... that does the trick IMHO. I have no hiss whatsoever with the Ipod Touch and the HD 485

I think that's the whole point of the imod. Supposedly the line out signal is no different than the headphone jack. Therefore, the signal path is modified to be as simple as possible. Straight from the DAC to the dock connector. All that's needed are coupling capacitors to remove DC voltage.

You have the argument against the stock line out confused with the imod (or diymod).

 

[Abstraction]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are other customs, the flagships are the Westone ES3X, Ultimate Ears UE11 pro, and Jerry Harvey Audio JH13 pro. The latter two have more affordable options that fit well within your budget. The iMod just isn't a sensible investment, especially given now the fierce competition with other digital audio players that cost less than the iMod service itself. The money spent on an iMod can get more done for a headphone purchase or towards a solid piece of desktop equipment. Based on descriptions that put custom IEMs somewhere 20-50% sonically "better" than their universal counterparts, I am very confident that a custom IEM out of a 5.5G headphone-out will just sound better than a top-of-the-line universal counterpart out of some great portable amp attached to an iMod. (N.B. there is no universal counterpart to the JH13 pro.. Jerry Harvey doesn't mess around with universals and they have six armatures per ear; same goes for the JH11 and UE11 which have four armatures per ear [the most a universal will have is 3].) My listening experience with convoluted and mystical portable set-ups (both iMod-based and not) in the past have led me to strongly believe that a high-end custom in-ear monitor would be the wisest investment making the most returns for your money. Time and time again owners of these units have found them comparable to some of the finest headphones in the world. The JH13 pro has been compared to both the Sony MDR-R10 and Audio Technica ATH-L3000 quite favorably. The latter two headphones are out of production and several thousands to acquire, and IEMs just are not as fiercely dependent on amplification as they are.

Thanks, 3X0. I may have to breathe deep a couple of times buying that kind of money for devices that come free with your Ipod, but it is beginning to look like it is the thing to do.

Best, db