High end dap vs phone + dac/amp

[iridium7777]

In SQ only. Cost is irrelevant as many counter examples will show. Theoretically, I can take the same implementation of a high quality battery operated portable dac/amp and build it as a dap using Android and charge $3300. Doesn't mean it will sound significantly better. Hence my question. I understand the dap should cost more because it's MORE than a dac/amp but also a dap. Lastly, nearly most dacs and daps have different sound. I'm referring to significantly BETTER sound (more objectively better) and not different sound.

I wonder if anyone has double blind abx the two to determine which sounds better.

you're asking a "provoking" question on a hobbyist forum that literally survives on splitting audible/inaudible differences in extremely expensive, and redundant, portable audio equipment. unless you're trying to drive 80-600 Ohm or planar headphones with a dongle you're going to be hard pressed hearing any differences between tidal (or whatever) out of your ios + dongle vs. sony mw1X vs. whatever.

back in the day a/b back to back, the best that i could, equal volume, etc, between original Kann and W1MA, using only my Shure 846s, and i could not tell any difference and kept the kann because it was cheaper. i don't have a dap anymore outside of an old ipod, and the only reason i'd consider a dap today would be for a 'distraction' free device, but definitely not on some sonic expectations, at least for my headphones/iem. i've always bought the iphone with the largest possible storage because since iphone 4 it was always my primary ipod/dap.

 

[billie1]

Sounds like a newish smartphone and a 500 dollar dac/amp will be equal or better in sound quality in most circumstances

If sound quality is your focus, then smartphone and dac is way to go

You are paying a big premium for the convenience for the better UI for a dedicated device

There are probably phone/ dac combos for 500 bucks that beat 3000 buck daps in sound quality

 

[wirewiggler]

Sounds like a newish smartphone and a 500 dollar dac/amp will be equal or better in sound quality in most circumstances

If sound quality is your focus, then smartphone and dac is way to go

You are paying a big premium for the convenience for the better UI for a dedicated device

There are probably phone/ dac combos for 500 bucks that beat 3000 buck daps in sound quality

I doubt that, when you look at the dac chips (and supporting hardware) in a good dap they are superior to those used in most dongles. How ever you can accept a lower quality sound reproduction for convenience, and not everyone can tell the difference.

 

[Yamson]

Sounds like a newish smartphone and a 500 dollar dac/amp will be equal or better in sound quality in most circumstances

If sound quality is your focus, then smartphone and dac is way to go

You are paying a big premium for the convenience for the better UI for a dedicated device

There are probably phone/ dac combos for 500 bucks that beat 3000 buck daps in sound quality

That is my thought process of not going with daps. I've always wanted one to have a dedicated device for music, but then I realized I could just spend the money on the a brand new flagship phone and use that as a dedicated music device with extra luxuries. This is what started me carrying around 2 phones now. I always have media playing in the background and my main phone's battery life won't get me through the day without needing to charge.

 

[originalsnuffy]

The problem with DAP units is that the ones that run Android tend to be on older versions of Android and have older snapdragon chips for the most part. Android, unless things have changed, is limited in bandwidth for audio so verdors have to create system wide workarounds.

And if the unit doesn't have Android, forget about streaming unless you want some kind of proprietary solution that is likely to become unsupported. None of the Chinese vendors have particularly good support for their older units. I suppose you could go Sony or another non-Chinese vendor and possibly get better support.

A current phone is usually more up to speed with things that matter. I got tired of waiting for Amazon music to work on my old DAP units. Now I use my iphone and get great sound. If you are willing to drop $200 or more, some great Dongle options exist. On the iphone, Neutron is a very good choice. I personally groove on DSD, and the Cayin RU7 is very DSD focused. That runs $250 or so methinks. Drop another $200 on something like the Letshuoer S12 2024 and you have some very portable and very good audio on the run.

I indulged in 1TB on my iphone and am glad I did. I prefer to download from my streaming service and similarly my SACD ISO rips consume space.

 

[Yamson]

The problem with DAP units is that the ones that run Android tend to be on older versions of Android and have older snapdragon chips for the most part. Android, unless things have changed, is limited in bandwidth for audio so verdors have to create system wide workarounds.

And if the unit doesn't have Android, forget about streaming unless you want some kind of proprietary solution that is likely to become unsupported. None of the Chinese vendors have particularly good support for their older units. I suppose you could go Sony or another non-Chinese vendor and possibly get better support.

A current phone is usually more up to speed with things that matter. I got tired of waiting for Amazon music to work on my old DAP units. Now I use my iphone and get great sound. If you are willing to drop $200 or more, some great Dongle options exist. On the iphone, Neutron is a very good choice. I personally groove on DSD, and the Cayin RU7 is very DSD focused. That runs $250 or so methinks. Drop another $200 on something like the Letshuoer S12 2024 and you have some very portable and very good audio on the run.

I indulged in 1TB on my iphone and am glad I did. I prefer to download from my streaming service and similarly my SACD ISO rips consume space.

That's actually why my 2nd phone is the one with 1tb of space haha. Although I carried around my anni23s and questyle m15 for portability. That's very good insight though on why some daps don't feel too premium. I will not be jumping on that bandwagon though.

 

[Rooster81]

It is 2025 now, I wonder if the dac/headphone combined with phone has closed the gap between the sound quality of good daps?
Bill

I agree with invisibleink. A good DAC/AMP + phone is mostly indistinguishable from any DAP.

There have been A/B tests over the years that show people can't tell the difference between a phone and much much more expensive source equipment.