High End DAC Recommendations

[RubenV]

   
 
I wish!  I am just waiting on someone else to make the commitment  I don't have a lot of experience with dCS but I have had the Debussy at home for about a month and personally, I didn't care for it.  I found it fatiguing, sterile and lacking musicality - but that's me.  It is a sexy looking unit, however.  I haven't heard the higher-end dCS units, but I can appreciate your dealers comments
 
As soon as I have one built, you'll know! 

 
Yeah, that is something I hear/read a lot regarding dCS, that it lacks musicality, too sterile, too detailed and overwhelming the first few minutes and after that just fatiguing. Also the comments about needing the full stack for the Paganini DAC made me second guessing before hearing the DAC itself. It might be a matter of taste, preference, system synergy or all combined. That's why you should always audition the gear before making a purchase. 
 
With my speakers I had the chance to audition the previous model and I ordered the building plans and pcb's for the active filter. While not able to complete the woodwork to my own likings, Linkwitz then released a newer version (the LX521). Since I was already familiar with the sound of the Orion's (which I auditioned) it wasn't too much of gamble to start building the LX521. This was my first DIY project and besides enjoying just the equipment as it is, but also the fact that I made it. The most enjoyable part of the building was matching the components and soldering.
 
 
Anyway, I'am back home now after the audition yesterday. Unfortantely I have no time at the moment to write it down (the above part I wrote yesterday, but had to stop when I left to work and I did not post it properly). I will post my findings here tomorrow I hope.

 

[astrostar59]

I wish!  I am just waiting on someone else to make the commitment  I don't have a lot of experience with dCS but I have had the Debussy at home for about a month and personally, I didn't care for it.  I found it fatiguing, sterile and lacking musicality - but that's me.  It is a sexy looking unit, however.  I haven't heard the higher-end dCS units, but I can appreciate your dealers comments
 
As soon as I have one built, you'll know! 
 

I agree. I have found as you go up the levels in DACs are regards cost (in theory SQ as well?) the amount of detail and transparency also goes up. The detail 'should' be there for the taking, but to get it right requires a loot of work in both the DAC design including power supplies and line board, and the way it sits with the rest of the chain - power amps and speakers / headphones.
 
I went the DAC kit route for this very reason. I got 'nearly right' to my audio preference with production DACs but of course, but irritatingly it was not right. I just had to try something else. You can't system tweak other than cables and changing other stuff in your system with production units, to tune the DAC sound. It gets really messy. Read the Audio Note PQ article called 'Are you on a road to audio hell' I think many are. I was and hopefully am heading out of it by doing 2 things:
 
1. Going the Kit route. performance v price is incredible.
2. Going R-2R route. It just sounds closer to real music and has less 'digi-titouse' and less fatigue, gets me closer to how I think instruments and vocals really sound.
 
Big money does not always equate to the sound you are after IMO.

 

[Yoga]

  Big money does not always equate to the sound you are after IMO.

 
Bingo.

 

[bmichels]

As you know I am looking for a new DAC for my brand new BHSE + Stax SR009 combo.

I read In this thread great things about the CH Precision C1 R-2R DAC.

-> Has someone compared the CH Precision C1 to the Chord DAVE which was on top of my list before I read here about the CH Precision C1 ?

I curently investigate: DAVE, TotalDAC D1, TotalDAC D1-tube-mk2, AYRE QX-5, Mark Levinson No519, ORPHEUS Absolute media Server,.. (Idealy I Will prefer a "streaming DAC" xith Ethernet & TIDAL/ROON support and .., future MQA compatibility)


I have organised tonight a mini meet to test the TotalDAC D1 Dual and the DAVE with my BHSE. I will report...

but, has someone tested the TotalDAC-D1-tube-mk2 with the BHSE / SR009 ?

Indeed, If I like the TotalDAC sound with my BHSE/SR009, I may consider the tube version of the TotalDAC to warm a little my SR009, but the tube version only output 1,4 volts, which is bellow the standard.

--> So I wonder if 1,4 volts at -0db will be enough for some low level recording ?

thanks in advance

 

[astrostar59]

-> Has someone compared the CH Precision C1 to the Chord DAVE which was on top of my list before I read here about the CH Precision C1 ?

but, has someone tested the TotalDAC-D1-tube-mk2 with the BHSE / SR009 ?

 

I demo'd the C1 at home last week with my same Server as my main system and using then Carbon and 009s. It was a disappointment TBH. Sterile and cold treble, too much detail exaggeration. I used the USB input and the TotalDAC USB cable (very good). Great build quality and looks amazing, but the sound isn't as good.
 
Maybe the C1 is better with the D1 but that adds 20K. Not worth the ticket price IMO.
 
Tomorrow I have another demo at home with a maxed out Lampizator Big 7 with R-2R chip and DSD 128. I'll post back how it sounds here. Lots of fans out there for the Lampi's especially on PCM - DSD.
 
All these compared to my humble AMR DP-777 and the more expensive Audio Note DAC 5 Special.

 

[nickif]

As you know I am looking for a new DAC for my brand new BHSE + Stax SR009 combo.

I read In this thread great things about the CH Precision C1 R-2R DAC.

-> Has someone compared the CH Precision C1 to the Chord DAVE which was on top of my list before I read here about the CH Precision C1 ?

I curently investigate: DAVE, TotalDAC D1, TotalDAC D1-tube-mk2, AYRE QX-5, Mark Levinson No519, ORPHEUS Absolute media Server,.. (Idealy I Will prefer a "streaming DAC" xith Ethernet & TIDAL/ROON support and .., future MQA compatibility)


I have organised tonight a mini meet to test the TotalDAC D1 Dual and the DAVE with my BHSE. I will report...

but, has someone tested the TotalDAC-D1-tube-mk2 with the BHSE / SR009 ?

Indeed, If I like the TotalDAC sound with my BHSE/SR009, I may consider the tube version of the TotalDAC to warm a little my SR009, but the tube version only output 1,4 volts, which is bellow the standard.

--> So I wonder if 1,4 volts at -0db will be enough for some low level recording ?

thanks in advance

I've been using the C1 as a streamer for more than 2 years and can not be more satisfied. As a digital source it is extremely transparent, fast, punchy with huge soundstage. And the color of the presentation is just beautiful, very much to my liking. For any gear at this price level, one should not assume plug-and-play, I did spend quite some time tweaking around to get the C1 sing, It was a bit edgy and slightly on the bright side in the beginning I'd have to admit.

2 days ago, I managed to get the D1 join the equation. I was a bit skeptical about the D1 in the beginning as C1 streaming already sounds brilliant. After installed the clock cards on both D1 and C1 and connect them up via CH link, the result is very rewarding.

Compared to C1 streaming, D1+C1 puts in more authority and sounds significantly denser and more fluid. The best digital front end I've heard by not a small margin. Not to mention the build quality and the sheer beautiful design, they are more like pieces of handmade furnitures which can last a life time.

BTW Florian is a super nice who usually responds to my email within 24 hrs from another time zone. They keep updating the firmware as well as other effort in making the CH a complete ecosystem. As a consumer there's nothing I'd ask more from a manufacturer except for the pricing

Highly recommended! And enjoy your dac picking journey.




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[astrostar59]

I've been using the C1 as a streamer for more than 2 years and can not be more satisfied. 

How you feeding it? Is it with an Aries or ethernet and NAS? I tried it with USB and it was not good, miles to bright and edgy for my liking. Maybe the D1 makes it, but you are looking at 50K?

 

[nickif]

Yes, it is with the Ethernet card (Which costs 4k retail alone...) and a Synoposis NAS. I haven't tried the USB port as that is a 3k optional as well but from those we compared both they all agree the Ethernet input is much better. Alan Taffel from TAS even claims that it is the best input among all. However I still prefer it is fed by the D1, via CH link which is the most natural sounding input to my ears. Also the CH is very sensitive to almost anything, it's no harm to throw it the best cables you can afford (I'm using the NBS black label 3s which gives the CH a lot of flesh; Siltech queen interconnect which is famous for its beautiful mids). I place them on a solid wood rack and keep them perfectly leveled. Once done, the sound is rich, warm, with great bass impact as well as beautiful mids and highs...oh forgot to mention the soundstage, it is huuuuuge (the best I've heard from a digital source regardless of any type), I think even the best headphone system is quite limited in conveying what the CH is really capable of. 
 
I happen to have the BHSE and 009 as well, I can say very confidently it's a great paring with the CH front end! The bottom line is, when you hear anything bright/edgy from a CH front end, there must be something wrong in the chain.

 

[musickid]

I'm a relative newcomer to this so please excuse me if my question is rather obvious. i've bought an earmax pro 2 head amp today and i want to connect it to my yulong usb dac. strange combo but after extensive reading i hope it will be magic. the earmax was reported as sounding stellar with just an mp3 player ipod i think. do i just use rca cables 2 out of dac into 2 on earmax terminals? so i take an analogue signal from the dac feed it into the amp where the amp outputs an analogue signal. finally amps don't output digital signals right? many thanks to all

 

[astrostar59]

   
I happen to have the BHSE and 009 as well, I can say very confidently it's a great paring with the CH front end! The bottom line is, when you hear anything bright/edgy from a CH front end, there must be something wrong in the chain.

Not what I found. My AMR DP777, Audio Note DAC 5 and a Naim DAC all sounded better via USB. The C1 sounded to bright and harsh. I had no intension of spending more on Ethernet or a D1, as IMO it should sound better than those DACs on USB for £25K.

 

[Golfnutz]

  Not what I found. My AMR DP777, Audio Note DAC 5 and a Naim DAC all sounded better via USB. The C1 sounded to bright and harsh. I had no intension of spending more on Ethernet or a D1, as IMO it should sound better than those DACs on USB for £25K.

 
Recently replaced my Hiface EVO with an Ethernet interface. The comparisons aren't even close. Astro you have no idea how bad the EVO is compared to Ethernet.
 
EVO has veil, poor bass, poor imaging, lack of details and resolution.
 
Doesn't matter what DAC you're using, you will never hear it's full potential with the EVO.

 

[astrostar59]

   
Recently replaced my Hiface EVO with an Ethernet interface. The comparisons aren't even close. Astro you have no idea how bad the EVO is compared to Ethernet.
 
EVO has veil, poor bass, poor imaging, lack of details and resolution.
 
Doesn't matter what DAC you're using, you will never hear it's full potential with the EVO.

Not so sure there. I had a good CEC belt drive CDP feeding my AMR and the Audio Note DACs and it was not as clean and fast as the EVO stack. The EVO is better than the Offramp 5 I had as well. It needs the 9V DC feed and the ext clock and use Asycronious to sound it's best.
 
Thing is, I used the C1 with USB from my Mac Mini and Audirvana+ and it was not good. Why was it worse than my AMR fed via the same Mac Mini and USB to EVO and SPDIF?
 
In fact I tried the EVO and fed the C1 to SPDIF and it was then a bit smoother. I just don't think the USB board in the C1 is that great, or at least is very sensitive to noise or other gear. The C1 to me seems designed as a whole CH System, so out of my budget. My Mac Mini has the Uptone Audio 12V mod and Linear power supply.
 
I appreciate you dig your C1 and D1, out should be top notch for that money. Maybe my tastes are different. I didn't like the MSB, Esoteric or dCS much either.

 

[Golfnutz]

 
Not so sure there. I had a good CEC belt drive CDP feeding my AMR and the Audio Note DACs and it was not as clean and fast as the EVO stack. The EVO is better than the Offramp 5 I had as well. It needs the 9V DC feed and the ext clock and use Asycronious to sound it's best.
 
Thing is, I used the C1 with USB from my Mac Mini and Audirvana+ and it was not good. Why was it worse than my AMR fed via the same Mac Mini and USB to EVO and SPDIF?
 
In fact I tried the EVO and fed the C1 to SPDIF and it was then a bit smoother. I just don't think the USB board in the C1 is that great, or at least is very sensitive to noise or other gear. The C1 to me seems designed as a whole CH System, so out of my budget. My Mac Mini has the Uptone Audio 12V mod and Linear power supply.
 
I appreciate you dig your C1 and D1, out should be top notch for that money. Maybe my tastes are different. I didn't like the MSB, Esoteric or dCS much either.

You're missing the point. Nothing to do with any DAC. EVO is just a terrible interface compared to Ethernet (I have both). EVO sounds sterile to Ethernet.

 

[astrostar59]

  You're missing the point. Nothing to do with any DAC. EVO is just a terrible interface compared to Ethernet (I have both). EVO sounds sterile to Ethernet.

I hope you are right. The C1 was not up to par on USB (it's own board) thats why I didn't go any further with it. It sounded bright, cold and digital to me. Quite possibly it excels on Ethernet, but requires a server / NAS and more cost. Many other DACs sound better for the money using USB.

 

[Golfnutz]

 
I hope you are right. The C1 was not up to par on USB (it's own board) thats why I didn't go any further with it. It sounded bright, cold and digital to me. Quite possibly it excels on Ethernet, but requires a server / NAS and more cost. Many other DACs sound better for the money using USB.

No idea what the C1 is using for Ethernet, but look at the Audio Over IP forum in Computer Audio.
 
Believe me, the EVO is absolute junk compared to something like the RedNet D16.
 
Like I said before, you really have no idea how good your DAC can sound, but never will, using the EVO as an interface (I'm talking about immediate differences right away).