[n00b2]

Tinyman and cehoward thanks for all the help so far. If you guys have your headphones with you, would be be able to tell me the earcup size, both internal and external dimensions for the Harman Kardon, AKG, and the two Sony headphones?
 
Thanks

 

[n00b2]

Also does anyone have any experience with the Philips Fidelio M1BT including how it sounds and its comfort level?

 

[n00b2]

@cehowardNote3 I managed to find a Sony Store that had the MDR-1RBT's on display and tested them out (MK2 version). Overall they sounded really nice over bluetooth, though lacking a bit in the sub bass, You wouldn't be able to pick they were bluetooth by listening to them. I did have one issue with them though. They seemed to have a significant amount of sibilance. On some songs I tried them with it was annoying and one song in particular was unbearable. Haven't had thatmuch sibilance out of any headphones I have tried with my phone before. Have you found any sibilance problems with your 10RBT or 1RBT MK2 headphones at all? You think there was some sort of setting that might have been causing it otherwise?

 

[cehowardNote3]

  @cehowardNote3 I managed to find a Sony Store that had the MDR-1RBT's on display and tested them out (MK2 version). Overall they sounded really nice over bluetooth, though lacking a bit in the sub bass, You wouldn't be able to pick they were bluetooth by listening to them. I did have one issue with them though. They seemed to have a significant amount of sibilance. On some songs I tried them with it was annoying and one song in particular was unbearable. Haven't had thatmuch sibilance out of any headphones I have tried with my phone before. Have you found any sibilance problems with your 10RBT or 1RBT MK2 headphones at all? You think there was some sort of setting that might have been causing it otherwise?

Sibilance???
 
Let me bring you back up to date. I am a newbie here, even got bad hearing.. 

 
When you state they have less this or that, what are you comparing them too????
 
Also, to back up on your "high end" clarification, IMO, non of these headphones we are talking about are truly high-end. IMO again, the high end stuff starts up there around $595 on up. IMO, the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2 cannot be considered high end. With that said, at this moment, I have the Sony MDR 10RBT, and the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2. Listening to the same songs, on the same devices with aptx bluetooth, and wired. There wasn't any doubt that the MK2 version was going to come out on top. Listen to the same music, wired and bluetooth, the MK2, was sharper, clearer, better highs, mids, bass, and more comfortable.
 
However, and a big however too, the Sony MDR 10RBT performed really well for $150 in looking at just one spec on these, the MK2 has a frequency range of 5 to 80, where 10RBT has a range of 20 to 20.. As I said, the MK2 was better which was better for the money, has to go to the lower Sony ,the 10RBT at $150...The MK2s were better all around, but at twice the price, that was expected. Tomorrow, I will get a chance to compared them to the Harman Kardon BT, that should be a fairer comparison.. Again, going high end, you have to go with ones with the high end price tags. These couple hundred costing headphones are not high end, and that is your stated main criteria in looking for a bluetooth head phone..
 
BTW, how much was the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2 at that store? Also, did they have the Sony MDR 10RBT too?  I am finding out that places that have good prices on the MK2 version, got super high prices on the 10RBT version.. 
 
Example, where I got my MK2s from for $309, they had the Sony MDR 10RBT for $265!!! Go figure..

 

[n00b2]

  Sibilance???
 
Let me bring you back up to date. I am a newbie here, even got bad hearing.. 

 
When you state they have less this or that, what are you comparing them too????
 
Also, to back up on your "high end" clarification, IMO, non of these headphones we are talking about are truly high-end. IMO again, the high end stuff starts up there around $595 on up. IMO, the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2 cannot be considered high end. With that said, at this moment, I have the Sony MDR 10RBT, and the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2. Listening to the same songs, on the same devices with aptx bluetooth, and wired. There wasn't any doubt that the MK2 version was going to come out on top. Listen to the same music, wired and bluetooth, the MK2, was sharper, clearer, better highs, mids, bass, and more comfortable.
 
However, and a big however too, the Sony MDR 10RBT performed really well for $150 in looking at just one spec on these, the MK2 has a frequency range of 5 to 80, where 10RBT has a range of 20 to 20.. As I said, the MK2 was better which was better for the money, has to go to the lower Sony ,the 10RBT at $150...The MK2s were better all around, but at twice the price, that was expected. Tomorrow, I will get a chance to compared them to the Harman Kardon BT, that should be a fairer comparison.. Again, going high end, you have to go with ones with the high end price tags. These couple hundred costing headphones are not high end, and that is your stated main criteria in looking for a bluetooth head phone..
 
BTW, how much was the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2 at that store? Also, did they have the Sony MDR 10RBT too?  I am finding out that places that have good prices on the MK2 version, got super high prices on the 10RBT version.. 
 
Example, where I got my MK2s from for $309, they had the Sony MDR 10RBT for $265!!! Go figure..

Sibilance is where the 's' or 'sh' sound in the music is extremely pronounced, like it is hissing. In the songs I was complaining about the 's' sound was extremely prominent and annoying. The hiss was unbearable on one particular song. I was comparing the sibilance of the Sony to other cheapo no name headphones I have used. They sound much worse overall than the sony. No comparison between the Sony and the cheap headphones in terms of sound quality but the cheap ones didnt have the annoying hissing.
 
Regarding high end, I did mean high end for bluetooth headphones. I'm not comparing them to $600+ headphones. I mean high end in terms or the portable bluetooth market which $300-400 definitely is. I'm in Australia and I went to my local Sony Store to try out the headphones. They were charging the standard Sony Australia retail prices: $399.95 AU for the 1RBT MK2 and $299.95 AU for the 10RBT. Nothing much in terms of price bias there but you would expect that from the official sony store.

 

[tinyman392]

 
Sibilance is where the 's' or 'sh' sound in the music is extremely pronounced, like it is hissing. In the songs I was complaining about the 's' sound was extremely prominent and annoying. The hiss was unbearable on one particular song. I was comparing the sibilance of the Sony to other cheapo no name headphones I have used. They sound much worse overall than the sony. No comparison between the Sony and the cheap headphones in terms of sound quality but the cheap ones didnt have the annoying hissing.
 
Regarding high end, I did mean high end for bluetooth headphones. I'm not comparing them to $600+ headphones. I mean high end in terms or the portable bluetooth market which $300-400 definitely is. I'm in Australia and I went to my local Sony Store to try out the headphones. They were charging the standard Sony Australia retail prices: $399.95 AU for the 1RBT MK2 and $299.95 AU for the 10RBT. Nothing much in terms of price bias there but you would expect that from the official sony store.

 
I'm not sure how burned in those headphones were.  There is always the chance that they'll get better with burn in :/  But it was a demo model, and those tend to get a lot of use :/  I know with the AKG, you will hear some sibilance at first, but it settles with use.  Not sure about the Sony as I haven't used them. 

 

[cehowardNote3]

 
Sibilance is where the 's' or 'sh' sound in the music is extremely pronounced, like it is hissing. In the songs I was complaining about the 's' sound was extremely prominent and annoying. The hiss was unbearable on one particular song. I was comparing the sibilance of the Sony to other cheapo no name headphones I have used. They sound much worse overall than the sony. No comparison between the Sony and the cheap headphones in terms of sound quality but the cheap ones didnt have the annoying hissing.
 
Regarding high end, I did mean high end for bluetooth headphones. I'm not comparing them to $600+ headphones. I mean high end in terms or the portable bluetooth market which $300-400 definitely is. I'm in Australia and I went to my local Sony Store to try out the headphones. They were charging the standard Sony Australia retail prices: $399.95 AU for the 1RBT MK2 and $299.95 AU for the 10RBT. Nothing much in terms of price bias there but you would expect that from the official sony store.

Okay, I see now. My bad hearing must be cutting it out for me or that display model may have been manhandled a lot to cause the "s". I am listening to one of my favorites, KILL BILL Vol 1, soundtrack, the Lonely Shepard. Really high nots, then I go to Whitney Houston and Shirley Bassy. I didn't get any of the "s" or "sh" in with either of the Sonys. The cheaper Sony was softer, but clear. Whereas, the MK2 was very sharp to me and everything sound bigger, if there is such a thing..  Now I fully understand your meaning of "high end" with bluetooth. It seems you should included the Parrot Zik and the Sennheiser MM 550-X. What were game changers for me was the PRICES.. IMO, a brand new example of the 1RBTMK2 out the box, not one that somebody has handled a lot, for $309 could be a game changer for you. Ditto for the 10RBT, Good Lord, they are charging Double of what I paid for the 10RBT. In fact, some stores in USA were charging $148 with free shipping and no tax for the 10RBT.
 
From reading your results, that really points toward the Parrot of the Sennheiser being the one for you..Not going to count it out, but I am pretty sure the Harmon Kardon is going to be hard put to out do the 10RBT. But, again, we are talking price here. I paid $97 for the Harman Kardons, so IMO, if their performance is equal or very close to the 10RBT, they be a winner for $97.  
 
Will see. Plus, I really would like to know what your final choice is too..  

 

[n00b2]

  Okay, I see now. My bad hearing must be cutting it out for me or that display model may have been manhandled a lot to cause the "s". I am listening to one of my favorites, KILL BILL Vol 1, soundtrack, the Lonely Shepard. Really high nots, then I go to Whitney Houston and Shirley Bassy. I didn't get any of the "s" or "sh" in with either of the Sonys. The cheaper Sony was softer, but clear. Whereas, the MK2 was very sharp to me and everything sound bigger, if there is such a thing..  Now I fully understand your meaning of "high end" with bluetooth. It seems you should included the Parrot Zik and the Sennheiser MM 550-X. What were game changers for me was the PRICES.. IMO, a brand new example of the 1RBTMK2 out the box, not one that somebody has handled a lot, for $309 could be a game changer for you. Ditto for the 10RBT, Good Lord, they are charging Double of what I paid for the 10RBT. In fact, some stores in USA were charging $148 with free shipping and no tax for the 10RBT.
 
From reading your results, that really points toward the Parrot of the Sennheiser being the one for you..Not going to count it out, but I am pretty sure the Harmon Kardon is going to be hard put to out do the 10RBT. But, again, we are talking price here. I paid $97 for the Harman Kardons, so IMO, if their performance is equal or very close to the 10RBT, they be a winner for $97.  
 
Will see. Plus, I really would like to know what your final choice is too..  

Well the Harman Kardon's retail price here is Australia is like over $300 as well. Cant remember the exact price but definitely in the same category as the Sony's and AKG and should sound as good as them. You said yourself that the retail price in America for the HK BT is $249. Shouldn't expect sound quality based on the refurb price, which is always significantly lower.
 
I tested out the Parrot Zik and my main issue with it was that it really needs the app to sound good. Without it, the sound was pretty average. The Sennheiser I'll definitely have a look at it again. Looks like the newer model is definitely an improvement over the older models which seemed to have a few issues.

 

[n00b2]

   
I'm not sure how burned in those headphones were.  There is always the chance that they'll get better with burn in :/  But it was a demo model, and those tend to get a lot of use :/  I know with the AKG, you will hear some sibilance at first, but it settles with use.  Not sure about the Sony as I haven't used them. 

Yeh I would have thought the demo model would have cleared up all issues that shouldn't be there. Maybe it was just a bad headphone. I'll try them out at the other Sony Store here when i get time. The AKG it says runs Bluetooth 3.0 + HS. How does that compare to the standard Bluetooth 2.1 or aptx versions of bluetooth do you know, other than the higher bitrate? Not quite familiar with the improvements in sound quality made with 3.0 HS.

 

[cehowardNote3]

 
Well the Harman Kardon's retail price here is Australia is like over $300 as well. Cant remember the exact price but definitely in the same category as the Sony's and AKG and should sound as good as them. You said yourself that the retail price in America for the HK BT is $249. Shouldn't expect sound quality based on the refurb price, which is always significantly lower.
 
I tested out the Parrot Zik and my main issue with it was that it really needs the app to sound good. Without it, the sound was pretty average. The Sennheiser I'll definitely have a look at it again. Looks like the newer model is definitely an improvement over the older models which seemed to have a few issues.

As I stated before I am newbie, but I am learning, and trying to learn fast too. With that said, with the MK2 Sony, it has Hi RES audio.. Now, that is another level. You have to have Hi Res files, and you have to be wired, and from reading the HI Res Audio goes to another level. This is what the Sony 1RBTMK2 is capable of.. Don't know if the others (Parrot and 550 X) I just learned that from reading some reviews that talked about the "Hi Res Audio".. then I did a search on it, and they have special formats that the Hi Res comes in..Most likely all the "high end" headphones have this Hi Res option.
 
On the Harman Kardons, that is a good point you make. If they are that good, then they will be keepers for the $97.. Since they have the same warranty, and return policy as new ones.. Also, in auditioning headphones in a store, to be fair, the surrounding noise, talking, and the choice of what to listen to, all have a bearing on how the headphones sound. , 

 

[cehowardNote3]

The Harman Kardon BTs arrived today.. I was really impressed in opening them up. These are listed as refurbished, with full manufacturer's warranty and return policy. They looked brand new and had everything included except the retail box. It came with two fitting over the head brackets. The small one that was on it is a perfect fit for me. First off, I want to say, that these are the best fitting than either of the Sony's.. They fit on my head like a perfectly fitting glove. With the Sony's at the gym, certain moves I do, the headphones will move. In fact, some moves that I do at the gym, I take the Sonys off.. From the feel of these HK BTs, won't have to do that. 
 
I had took both the Sony's with me to work today, and did some more comparisons.. Come to find out, the Sony MDR 10RBT can play HI Res Audio just like the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2. So, that is another plus for the 10RBT.. On the Harman Kardon, I started comparing it to the Sony 10RBT, it is close..Very close.. I will be callling Harman Kardon customer service tomorrow to find out if there are any button movements to turn on the aptx and also are they capable of playing Hi Res Audio. Also, let me say this before I go any futher, the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, is another class than these two. It must be what you all call the soundstage, because the MK2 playing the same music, gives it off broader, bigger, sharper, and clearer.. But the MK2s, cost twice as much as the lower Sony, and three times as much as the Harman Kardon BTs. Just from the 2 hour auditiioning of the Harman Kardon BTs, they are keepers. For $97 they are the best deal for the money. The build quality on the Harman Kardon's is very good.  It would be nice if this $97 free shipping deal on the HK BTs was available to you, these would be starters for you,,
 
Tomorrow will run some comparisons with wired connections. between the Sony MDR 10RBT and the Harman Kardon BT...

 

[tinyman392]

  The Harman Kardon BTs arrived today.. I was really impressed in opening them up. These are listed as refurbished, with full manufacturer's warranty and return policy. They looked brand new and had everything included except the retail box. It came with two fitting over the head brackets. The small one that was on it is a perfect fit for me. First off, I want to say, that these are the best fitting than either of the Sony's.. They fit on my head like a perfectly fitting glove. With the Sony's at the gym, certain moves I do, the headphones will move. In fact, some moves that I do at the gym, I take the Sonys off.. From the feel of these HK BTs, won't have to do that. 
 
I had took both the Sony's with me to work today, and did some more comparisons.. Come to find out, the Sony MDR 10RBT can play HI Res Audio just like the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2. So, that is another plus for the 10RBT.. On the Harman Kardon, I started comparing it to the Sony 10RBT, it is close..Very close.. I will be callling Harman Kardon customer service tomorrow to find out if there are any button movements to turn on the aptx and also are they capable of playing Hi Res Audio. Also, let me say this before I go any futher, the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, is another class than these two. It must be what you all call the soundstage, because the MK2 playing the same music, gives it off broader, bigger, sharper, and clearer.. But the MK2s, cost twice as much as the lower Sony, and three times as much as the Harman Kardon BTs. Just from the 2 hour auditiioning of the Harman Kardon BTs, they are keepers. For $97 they are the best deal for the money. The build quality on the Harman Kardon's is very good.  It would be nice if this $97 free shipping deal on the HK BTs was available to you, these would be starters for you,,
 
Tomorrow will run some comparisons with wired connections. between the Sony MDR 10RBT and the Harman Kardon BT...

 
If your device supports APT-X or AAC, that codec will be used automatically (assuming it can be).  And the Harman do have a bit of a clamping force.  I'm surprised you didn't find them sibilant though, the treble on the Harman was quite edgy to my ears XD  But you found them for 97 dollars, that's a huge steal! 

 

[cehowardNote3]

   
If your device supports APT-X or AAC, that codec will be used automatically (assuming it can be).  And the Harman do have a bit of a clamping force.  I'm surprised you didn't find them sibilant though, the treble on the Harman was quite edgy to my ears XD  But you found them for 97 dollars, that's a huge steal! 

Thanks for that tip on the apt-x and the Harmon Kardon BTs.. On both the Sonys, I have to do Power Button and Volume + Button at the same time in order for the headphones to be in aptx mode.If one was NOT aware  of the button sequence, it would be possible to hook up to a aptx device and NOT GET APTX.. That is why I was asking that question on the Harman Kardons..
 
Like you said, for $97 they are a steal. I would include the Sony MDR 10RBT at $149 a steal too. That Sony has apt-x and HI Res capable like its big brother. Right now, I am at work(I got a perk job at a desk), I am setting here with 3 sets of headphones doing back and forth auditing of them. Not only that, I have asked a couple of my coworkers when they get the chance I would like them to try the Sony MDR 10RBT and the Harman Kardon BT on the same songs and let me know which sounds the best. As in my other post, no need for me to ask about the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, it is clearly the best of the 3 and rightfully so, since it is cost  2 to 3 times and more in cost than the other two.
 
The build on the Harman Kardons is nice. They are more gym-worthy than the other two. Just walking around the with the HKs on there is no slip whatsoever, and they nicely hug my head firmly.. 
 
..
 
To n00b2, you have to do your own measurements, I am supplying the pictures.. 

 
From left to right, Sony MDR 10RBT, Sony MDR 1RBTMK2, Harman Kardon BT
 

 

 

[cehowardNote3]

To  n00b2 &  tinyman392,
 
After a day of full listening from my Note 3 with aptx, my desk computer (wired) and (bluetooth), and with one of my coworkers doing about a  hour with the Sony MDR 10RBT and the Harman Kardon BT, conclusion, the Sony MDR 10RBT is slightly better than the Harman Kardon BT. Plus, on the Harman Kardon when you touched the cord in wired mode, you hear it..However, my coworker and I both agree the Harman Kardon was good real good. Also, don't know if it is a feature on the Harman Kardon or not, but the Sony MDR 10RBT can also play HI Res Audio which is a big plus. I  need to find out if HI Res Audio is available on the Harman Kardon BT, haven't got a confirmation on that yet. Will asked Harman Kardon support for that..
 
Now, this is real funny. I already knew the answer and posted it in my last post that the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2 is in a different class than these two.  Anyway, just for sake of verifying what I have found out, I asked that same coworker to audition the Sony MDR 1RBTMK2s. The result he came back with was astounding..
 
These are his exact words, After listening to the MK2s, my coworker said the "Sony MDR 10RBT and the Harman Kardon BT are bullchit!!" when compared to the MK2s.. Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I did say that the MK2 is in a different class than the lower Sony and the HK BT
 
Prices
 
Sony MDR 1RBTMK2 $309
Sony MDR 10RBT $149
Harman Kardon BT $97
 
IMO, all three are winners..  

 

[Im2bz2p]

Thanks for all those that recommended bluetooth headphones. I was looking for a pair for work and came across this topic recently. A good read if anything.
 
~ Im2bz2p