High $ Cables For Senns - What's The Deal?
Dec 3, 2007 at 2:14 AM Post #46 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif
better cables equal better sound. that seems pretty obvious. however, it is still a tweak and should not be a priority in assembling a system - source, amp, phones should come first.



Better paint make my car faster.

That is linear with how your argument is formed.
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 5:40 AM Post #48 of 72
Aftermarket cables should be the last change to a system, as they offer the least amount of change in the overall scheme of audio.

Also the HD650 is a mad-scaling headphone on its own with the stock cable. You haven't even heard its limits on your system yet, why do you want to upgrade its cable? It makes sense to upgrade the HD650's cable in a system that's running a high-end source and amp, like a >$1K source and a >$500 amp at least. Otherwise the investment scale ratio just doesn't make sense.
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 5:48 AM Post #49 of 72
Can I ask is it worth the upgrade from a cardas to an equniox one?
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 5:54 AM Post #50 of 72
Snake oil !
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 6:48 AM Post #51 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo6Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
RAL website makes no mention of headphone cables.


RAL doesn't market headphone cables via their website. I picked up cables on audiogon (do a search there). They're comparable in price to other cables (unlike the premium prices on their website). I love my RALs.
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 7:07 AM Post #52 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo6Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What would you recommend, then? I'm always on board for some new/better stuff, but not well versed in the art/science of the DAC. I have an extensive background in electronics, but with RADAR and $hit like that, not sine waves. I don't mind spending some extra bucks as long as it isn't ridiculously expensive. After all, I still have a Harley to feed as well...


Well if you're happy with the Entech, then that's great. Personally, I am not a fan of the way it sounds, but our tastes may differ.

I personally feel there are options for better CD players and DACs than the Entech for the same price as one of these upgrade cables you're considering. For example, a used Ack dAck 1.3, MHDT Constantine, Lite DAC-AH, Music Hall CD25, MSB Link III, etc. If you hang around the sale forums here or Audiogon, you're bound to find a good deal on something.

I just think it may not be the most wise option to spend more money on a cable than the actual source of your setup. I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment in terms of price/performance value with a cable upgrade. My advice is you should max out your budget on a source before spending upwards of $200 on a cable.

Good luck with whatever you choose. I hope it works out.
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 7:11 AM Post #53 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by spunkmeyer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
RAL doesn't market headphone cables via their website. I picked up cables on audiogon (do a search there). They're comparable in price to other cables (unlike the premium prices on their website). I love my RALs.


Any comparsion between RAL and other "famous" cables like Zu Mobius, Equinox, or Cardas?


I ordered a pair of RAL as well, it has been TWO months still haven't got them!
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Hope they worth the wait.....
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 7:39 AM Post #55 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbln /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Check post #17 for the link to my impressions of the different cables.

RAL changes the HD650 into quite something else.
smily_headphones1.gif



Thanks Tbln! That's very informative indeed. The only difference is that my systems are all single-ended, but I guess the change/trend is the same. Very encouraging on the RAL, make me more anxious to get hold of mine.
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 4:14 PM Post #56 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I just think it may not be the most wise option to spend more money on a cable than the actual source of your setup. I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment in terms of price/performance value with a cable upgrade. My advice is you should max out your budget on a source before spending upwards of $200 on a cable.


I think you might be right. When upgrade-itis strikes, one often loses sight of the larger picture...
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 6:31 PM Post #57 of 72
Hey Borat-

Do you really think the Entech is my weakest link? Now you have me wondering. I like the features of the Marantz CDP I'm using, but I'm open to trying a different DAC. As I said, I don't really know a whole lot about them and what actual effect one can have on SQ. I was originally planning to get the Lite AH until the Entech showed up on ebay and I jumped on that. Do you think the Lite would be better? It actually sells for LESS at Pacific Valve (even the modded one) then the Entech sold for new, back in its day. I'm getting way off topic here discussing DACs in the Cans forum, so as not to veer too far, does anyone else agree that I should forego the cable and look into a better DAC? Actually, I'll probably end up doing both. It doesn't take much to get me fired up about new gear...
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 8:39 PM Post #58 of 72
Well, if you are happy with the Entech and with the rest of your setup, then maybe you should just stick with it (and run as far away from this place as possible
smily_headphones1.gif
). However, I will stick behind my advice about getting better results with an upgraded source versus an upgraded cable.

The Lite DAC-AH will be a completely different flavor than the Entech. The Lite is a non-oversampling unit, which a lot of people say sounds "natural and relaxed". I think the Entech sounds more flat, however I also felt it had the tendency to sound piercing in the highs. Maybe you don't notice this with your Darkvoice and 650, or don't feel that it sounds that way period. But I felt that way when I paired the 203.2 with a Singlepower PPX3 SLAM and 650.

I really can't tell you what to do since I don't know what type of sound you prefer and I don't have your ears. I was only posting what I would do in your position, which is to save the money for an upgrade cable for the future (or never) and invest in a higher end source instead.

A good idea would be to try to attend a meet in your area so you can try different sources. Or just keep buying and selling gear until you find what you like. That's what I did.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Dec 3, 2007 at 9:01 PM Post #59 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbln /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Check post #17 for the link to my impressions of the different cables.

RAL changes the HD650 into quite something else.
smily_headphones1.gif



Tbln's impressions on various cables are worth reading. very informative.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jan 5, 2008 at 6:46 PM Post #60 of 72
Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Better paint make my car faster.

That is linear with how your argument is formed.





I see it as paint is intended to make your car look good and protect it. So no, better paint will not make your car go faster only look and last better. However, if your intention is to make the car go faster, need more power... In headphone terms, amp them. Once you have the power, upgrade the fuel lines to get the increased need for fuel, head speak... UPGRADE THE CABLES!

Why do after market cables sound better? Easy to look at the simple construction. Stock Senn cables are very thin, stranded wires likely intended to help weak ass amp to sound OK or to keep cost down because so many people think this is snake oil! Most after market cables that people love are solid core not stranded. Current travels down the outside of the wire, not in it. This is why OCC copper and silver wire will sound the best, cryo it makes it even better. Cryo treatment will help "smooth" out the molecules to create a more uniform surface of the cable and OCC has no joining sections or anything because of the manufacturing process.

Do cable cost $250 in materials to make? No. Are they worth it? up to you. Why are the Chinese cables less? Because labor costs less in China. It took me 14 hours to braid my cable and terminate it and another 2 to make the plugs with a mold and ABS plastic. So if you want to look at why? Look no further than yourselves. Take $50 worth of materials and a day off work to do your own and you can have a better cable than the big boys. But what amount of income do you lose if you take an unpaid day off to make the cable? Is that worth the $150-$200 you pay someone to build one for you and guarantee them? If you screw up, you are out a days wages and some materials and maybe cans or worse!

I made mine out of gold plated copper/silver/gold alloy wire, cotton sleeve, custom pins, neutrik plug, and instead of Techflex, I used thick cotton tube over the insulation for braid integrity and died it black to look cool! A lot less microphonic sound transmitted through rubbing the cable. I spent about $180 in materials and it sounds good! Good enough that after burning it in for 400 hrs before listening and then doing an A/B comparison to my old Equinox cable. It sounded good enough that it took a total of two songs to post the for sale thread for the Equinox! I since then have thought about making my cable to sell to you guys. I just don't think that many would pay the $400 I would need to make reasonable profit. Also, I don't think I could handle all of the know it alls that complain and moan about someone else's experiences and spending habits!

Why some people cannot hear the difference? Only they can tell. One of my friends(an engineer), argued for days that I was full of BS! I finally had to invite him over for beers just so I could shut him up! He and another friend(audio salesman) listened to the Equinox and my creation, no stock cable as I had to hack it to get the pins. The hifi guy heard only a minor difference citing that it had better imaging, that is it! The engineer with all of his educated quips was blown away! He has yet to question my SNAKE OIL aqain. The hifi guy has since gone to see the doctor for a hearing test and found out he is suffering from hearing loss from all of his years in the business. Oh yeah, he could hear the difference in imaging because the damage done affects what frequencies he hears equally in each ear and mainly in the high highs and bass regions.

So what does this mean? If you are a skeptic, buy a cable from a manufacturer that has a return policy. Burn them in for 400 hours(the better the quality the longer the burn in is what I have found), do an A/B comparison BLIND! Have someone to change the cable for you. If you cannot hear the difference then it is one of a few things:

-your gear sucks and the cable was not the bottle neck
-your hearing sucks and you should see a doctor to verify it
-the cables actually do sound the same and the millions of satisfied IC and cable buyers are stupid and the millions of dollars spent on production and research is as much as a hoax as the USA's foreign policy!

In the end people will only believe what they see and hear with their own ears with religion and patriotism as exceptions. That scares me! I mean, who are us snake oil users hurting with our beliefs? Our snake oil benefits many besides the consumer... Snake oil provides jobs and research. Religion and Patriotism only takes from you and many still believe. Is there any research that shows that there is any fact in religion or benefits of patriotism other than killing other people so you don't have to debate these snake oil topics with them? On the other hand their is proof in the pudding that OCC and cryoed wires DO do the job better!

So be happy! If the listeners using these cables are happy, let them be. If you believe it is snake oil, then be happy that you have a choice. If you only believe in people walking on water and that my country, your country, or whatever is better or worse because I/you said so, time to re-evaluate your logic don't ya think!
 

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