I'm finding that the bass looses up after a few hours. They were sounding a bit poor on amps that I had expected better from, such as the Luxman P-750u and Studio Six.
HiFiMan Susvara Unveiled Initial Impressions.
- Thread starter Currawong
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I think the Yamaha you mentioned is a very good example. I have a Yamaha integrated amplifier that I use to drive my Susvara, and the neutral, lifelike and sweet vocals that Yamaha adheres to in their amplifier products is like completely absent in the yh5000se, which really shocked me. However, as you said, considering the way Japanese companies operate, where the direction of a product might be decided based on the preference of one person (perhaps someone in a high position), this indeed seems much understandable.
Regarding your point about the sometimes imperfect delivery of percussion, I have a (kinda) similar feeling (tho it's not in terms of timbre, but about the strength). In my opinion, the Susvara OG has very linear bass, it does provide excellent layering and reveals bass details very well, along with good speed. However, I do feel that the bass presence is sometimes not very pronounced, it lacks some impact and punch at some scenario; actually, if the mid-bass were slightly stronger, this issue could be resolved. Of course, this doesn't mean it's bad—its bass performance varies in different scenarios. For example, if there is only one drum beat and a few instruments, or to say the other instruments don't interfere with the drum's performance, the drum beats and bass quality are quite good. Or in the case of EDM, with very strong synthetic bass, the Susvara OG's bass is excellent and with no issues. But in more complex scenes, as you mentioned, the bass performance can be overshadowed by other instruments and the impact/punch feels lessened. I think it might be because HiFiMan was looking for a balanced signature when tuning the Susvara, and they didn't want its bass to be as fierce as that of the HE1000se (actually I'm a basshead and gotta say I reaaaaaally like the bass on he1000se & he1000v2 stealth). So, they intentionally limited its impact of bass on SUS OG to maintain this balance.
I'm not sure if we're hearing the same track,
around the 00:13, there is indeed couple of coughing. (If not, oops, what a coincidence! It seems like there's always someone who coughs a couple of times before each performance, haha)
Regarding detail and resolution, my personal view is that the SUSU won't be able to picking up details that the original Susvara cannot, in terms of resolution, they're almost the same. HOWEVER, I do find that I can pick up details more easily on SUSU, I think it's mostly because the way the SUSU presents these details that makes these details easier to hear and more distinguishable. The SUSU excels in separating and breaking down details finely, and in my opinion, it has better separation. It can distinctly and independently present these finely divided details without overlapping them with one another, then presents these details in a very composed and orderly manner, much like how artifacts are displayed in a museum, which make it easier for me to identify these details.
By the way, you mentioned your Susvara OG having a slightly V-shaped tuning right? I'm thinking if it's due to the early 2.5mm connector Susvara having different tuning compared to the later versions. My friend also has one, but unfortunately, it's suffer from connection problem (loose connection/poor connection), it needs the cable to be held at a specific angle to listen (still, in most of the time, the sound cuts in and out, sadly). So, I haven't had the chance to hear what the early Susvara actually sounds like
Same track. Agreed on all points. I guess it's the result of the stealth magnets improving the ability to discern detail, especially as more starts to happen during a track, and more instruments are playing at once, there is an improved separation of sounds.
What appears to be happening is that as the OG has a slightly lower response at ~2 kHz, the bass and treble are slightly more noticeable. It's more pronounced with other headphones that have a similar FR in the mid-range, such as the Utopias, but they have even more mid-bass.By the way, you mentioned your Susvara OG having a slightly V-shaped tuning right? I'm thinking if it's due to the early 2.5mm connector Susvara having different tuning compared to the later versions. My friend also has one, but unfortunately, it's suffer from connection problem (loose connection/poor connection), it needs the cable to be held at a specific angle to listen (still, in most of the time, the sound cuts in and out, sadly). So, I haven't had the chance to hear what the early Susvara actually sounds like
I firmly believe that there's more to this than just FR, but if you compare the Susvara's FR (or any headphone that is designed to measure flat from 20 Hz to 1 kHz) relative to the Harman curves, that the "flat" FR below 1 kHz is perceived by many people as having a bit more mid-bass than is neutral. That's how I've always perceived it too. Just so that nobody is confused, I'm not saying this is good or bad, just how it ends up being perceived, at least by me. So, if a pair of headphones is also reasonably bright, and the mid-range is pulled back a bit, I'll notice that bass (and the treble) more, and it sounds a little bit v-shaped.
So, I reckon that there are a couple of things going on with the Unveiled, both from the slight change in tuning, and the updated acoustic design. Combined, I'm hearing a more even and consistent sound with more detail discernible.
I think this goes some way to explain the Harman curve, where people preferred varying degrees of stronger low bass. Now that the drivers sound like they've loosened up, I've found that, much like the HD800S, turning up the left-hand low-bass-shelf dial on the Lokius makes certain types of music more entertaining, without making the bass sound overwhelming.
A quick question about the exposed driver. What do you think it would take to damage the driver? I mean it does look like it has a little protection?
Would a little stroke do it? I mean I will demo them at some point but I would just be so scared of damaging the driver just from re-adjusting them on my head or something like that. They can't be that fragile though? They must need a real poke?
(Apologies for the unintended innuendo)
Would a little stroke do it? I mean I will demo them at some point but I would just be so scared of damaging the driver just from re-adjusting them on my head or something like that. They can't be that fragile though? They must need a real poke?
(Apologies for the unintended innuendo)
You might be imagining this scenario:
Based on my observations, the magnetic attraction of the SUSU, whether it’s the magnet ring or the drivers, doesn’t seem to be that strong. Though
I haven't tested whether the magnetism will increase or not when the drivers are connected to an amplifier and provided with higher current yet (In fact, I can't test this either. If the magnetism did suddenly becomes stronger and something gets pulled in, my friend who lent me SUSU would certainly beat me flat lol).
Afaic, you just need to be careful not to poke your fingers into the drivers when picking up or putting on the SUSU.
Regarding this one, I can say: Yes, if you remove the cover/lid, there left no protection at all, and the drivers are completely exposed.
In fact, I'm also curious about this. What things can damage the drivers? Could dust do? What if insects like mosquitoes fly in
?
I saw some pictures on a local forum, (this seems to be) the first SUSU with diaphragm cracked in our area. I'm a bit curious about what could have caused this...
ObjectiveSubjectivist
Previously known as alxw0w
What you expect from "naked" driver design.
joseluishs
100+ Head-Fier
Thank you very much for sharing!Brief review of SUSU (aka. susvara unveiled)
Let me begin with something that some of you guys might be curious about—can it be used as closed-back one? The answer is: NO.
It's not a matter of whether they sound good or not, nor is it about advantages and disadvantages of closed-back and open-back. The issue is that if you cover the SUSU with the lid, the sound becomes completely distorted and unlistenable.
To explain this in terms of sonic principles: If you place something parallel to the driver, it will create reflections that could either positively or negatively impact the sound, but most of the case, it's in a negative way. The easiest way to try this out is to place your palms on either side of the open-back headphones, and you'll notice some distortion in the sound.
The density of the grille determines the reflectivity of sound wave. When sound waves hit the protective grille, part of the energy (sound wave) is reflected back, forming a reflected wave; the rest goes out through the gaps in the mesh. The phase of the reflected wave usually differs from that of the original wave, causing distrotion, which is why in most cases, the reflection lead to deterioation of sound.
That's why you'll notice that the outer layer of the protective grille on the X9000 is not completely parallel to the driver, it has an angle.
On the Susvara Unveiled side, HiFiMAN didn't intend for users to use them this way, so covering it up meaning nearing 100% of distortion lol.
Some experiments on lids
And then about the lid, to be honest at first when I looked at the product promotional image, I thought the round circle part was bumped up, something like this:
I was surprised to find out it was actually flat.
So I did a few small experiments with this cover, like:
What happens if you place it upside down or sideways:
Conclusion: You can place it upside down, but not sideways.*
And what happens if you flip the lid:
It won't even attach to the SUSU.*
The conclusion is that the magnetic force isn't that strong on Suswara Unveiled; nor is it surrounded by magnets all around, it seems there are only four areas that are covered with magnets
It seems HiFiMAN avoided using strong magnets, maybe to prevent interference with the driver, and to avoid the risk of attracting something magnetic to the driver, which could blow the headphone up.
Sound
Now, let's talk about the sound. I know you probably won't want to read a long essay, so I'll get straight to the tldr conclusions:
- The improvement is indeed significant, but it mainly depends on the how good the recording is (I'm referring to the recording quality of the music file you play).
- The overall sound signature is consistent with the Susvara OG, but with some tonal differences. The Unveiled is lighter and softer.
Bass
The bass of the OG SUS can be described as 'linear'. In three words: linear, clean, and clear. It's very accurate with an appropriate speed. It presents low-frequency very textures well.
Of course, Susvara follows a "healthy" tuning approach, so it's not likely to make the bass as aggressive, punchy, powerful as the HEKSE.
In the Susvara 2, the overall feel of the bass, such as texture and speed, is basically the same as the OG susvara imo. However, the quantity is slightly more, and the impact is significantly stronger, giving it more punch and making its presence more noticeable. The elasticity has also improved, making the bass feel more bouncy.
Keep in mind that, overall, the Susvara 2 still maintains a balanced tuning. So, while the bass is stronger, it is relatively speaking, it doesn't dramatically shift the tuning style to make the bass as powerful as the HEKSE.
Vocal/Mids
The vocal is another part where there is a noticeable difference when compared to OG SUSVARA. The vocal tone of the Susvara 1 can be summarized as neutral and solid, whereas the Susvara 2 sounds more 'ethereal' to me: it's lighter, softer, more airy. Its pitch is slightly higher than the OG one, making female vocals sound a bit younger, it's somehow similar to how female vocals are presented on the Audio-Technica AD1000 or the Stax 009 (but not exactly the same!).
Moreover, the OG has a strong sense of curve/line in the imaging of vocals (sorry that I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm not sure if this is the correct term to describe it in the English world), it clearly outlining the edges of the imaging. In the SUSU, such solid line/curve of imaging is replaced by a softer imaging, like a touch of a cloud or a bunch of cotton candy. It has a very light and soft texture: airy and fluffy. Strangely, even without the clear edges (the imaging feels edgeless), the imaging is still as clear as the OG. It's hard to describe this feeling—simply put, it's like "no edges, but still clear and solid imaging." This might sound counterintuitive, but that's really the sound impression presented by this Susvara 2 I have.
As I mentioned, the sound is incredibly soft. I mean, really, extremely soft! I feel that all the imaging, whether vocals or instruments, becomes as soft and fluffly as a Daifuku!
Every note seems to be gently wrapped in a soft aura, with all the details presented gently, softly and smoothly. This "softness" is not the kind of soft and weak presentation which typically occurs when lacks of dynamics; it's a softness in the imaging presentation that makes you naturally think of the word "soft" as you listen.
Furthermore, the sibilance control is excellent. Even with songs with excessive sibilance, like "You are a ghost, I am a ghost" from Shoujo Kageki, you don't feel too much annoying sibilance. The treble extension is just as smooth and gentle as the OG.
Soundstage
Regarding the soundstage, although I previously thought that the soundstage of the Susvara OG was already unbeatable, saying that the Susvara 2 is "unbeatable on top of unbeatable" might seem contradictory I know, but I have to admit that the Susvara Unveiled does have a wider soundstage, horizontally to be specific.
If the recording quality of a track is good enough, the SUSU noticeably exhibits higher separation, and the distribution of instruments is more orderly. In Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3, first movement, it perfectly presents the separation and distribution of instruments. The initial part excellently separates the piano and the string section in the background in the vertical plane, and overall, it expresses the scale of the concerto very well in terms of width.
This actually into what I mentioned at the beginning: 'whether the improvements of the susu can be reflected, it's mainly depending on the source quality.' I can honestly tell you that almost all tracks in my playlist were anime stuffs, and unfortunately, their recording quality isn't up to par sometimes. I can give you an example, such as "モア！ジャンプ！モア！(feat. 花里みのり)" which clearly has recording issues, with noticeable cymbal distortion; but in fact, there are also many tracks with superb recording quality, like "Heart to Heart - AQUAPLUS", if you are familiar with this group, you might know that they are also the team behind the soundtrack of White Album. Therefore, my conclusion is that, with poor recordings, there's almost no noticeable difference in resolution between the OG Susvara and the SUSU.
In fact, the OG Susvara already has excellent resolution, I don't think there is such a huuuge difference in that regard; both the Susvara OG and SUSU can capture the same details, they both have excellent resolution, capable of capturing even subtle details and presenting them clearly. But if you ask about the differences, I would say the Susvara 2 disperses the instruments more evenly, presenting them in a more effortless, coordinated, and orderly manner.
To give an perhaps imperfect analogy, it's like asking two archaeologists to excavate the same site. They would find the same artifacts, because no matter how skilled an archaeologist is, he won't be able to uncover things that aren't there, just like a good headphone doesn't reveal nonexistent details. Here's the point: if you ask about the difference between these two archaeologists: one placed the excavated artefacts here and there on the ground in a casual manner; while the other arranges them neatly, keeping everything in perfect order. I'm not saying that the Susvara OG presents details in a disorganized manner, but that the Susvara 2 does have this sense of 'order'.
After a busy week, I finally had time to finish writing this brief review.
And thank you, Currawong, for allowing me to share my listening impressions here. After I finish writing my thoughts on the Susvara Unveiled, I'll discuss with you some of your views on the OG!
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