[hmscott]

Its not necessarily a power thing. The HE6SE and most hifiman are fairly neutral headphones, so they will present the flavor of your amp's characteristics too. If you have a warm amp, these will sound warmer. If you have a bright amp, these will sound brighter.

Lets not forget, Hifiman recommends (not requires) just 2 Watts at 50 Ohms. Dont get carried away with the power ratings.

As far as I've read 2W is a *minimum* requirement for the HE6 series...more is better, so far the best reports are from those that connect directly to speaker amp's, either directly or through the Hifiman HE-Adapter - YMMV which is best sounding.

I don't think we can get too carried away with power with the HE6 series, while the "sound" characteristics of the amp also comes through, with many preferring Class A SS or Tube amp sound, it is the power that sends the HE6SE V2 to another level of performance.

I've done a little experimentation with driving both the Hifiman HE6SE V2 and Ananda on 3.5mm SE capable devices - starting with battery powered receivers (Ham, SWL) and they drive the planars adequately enough to enjoy using them at loud listening levels, but they have a very narrow sound stage and don't "light up" either headphone as compared to what I hear driving them with the Topping A90 / Xduoo TA-20.

There is no substitute for raw power, the Planars respond to having "more of it". I expect the same improvement as going from "cheap transistor" radio's to the A90 / Xduoo TA-20 as when I double available power through a speaker AMP with plenty of current on demand internally - not needing to go to the mains to respond to instantaneous power requirements. The more capacitance / transformer power delivery capability the better the Hifiman's should sound. It's not just the power output rating, it is the "umph" the amp can muster on demand from internal resources.

I do enjoy the thin sound from the portable transistor radios on the Ananda and to a lessor extent the HE6SE V2, as compared to the usual dynamic headphones I've used for decades - the Hifiman Planar detail delivery really shines when listening for weak signals, both CW and Voice, the Hifiman Planar's really up the intelligibility of the signal.

I'm trying to enjoy my TA-20 as long as I can, so I can get enough Hifiman user reports to help decide which speaker amp to get next.

 

[antdroid]

As far as I've read 2W is a *minimum* requirement for the HE6 series...more is better, so far the best reports are from those that connect directly to speaker amp's, either directly or through the Hifiman HE-Adapter - YMMV which is best sounding.

I don't think we can get too carried away with power with the HE6 series, while the "sound" characteristics of the amp also comes through, with many preferring Class A SS or Tube amp sound, it is the power that sends the HE6SE V2 to another level of performance.

I've done a little experimentation with driving both the Hifiman HE6SE V2 and Ananda on 3.5mm SE capable devices - starting with battery powered receivers (Ham, SWL) and they drive the planars adequately enough to enjoy using them at loud listening levels, but they have a very narrow sound stage and don't "light up" either headphone as compared to what I hear driving them with the Topping A90 / Xduoo TA-20.

There is no substitute for raw power, the Planars respond to having "more of it". I expect the same improvement as going from "cheap transistor" radio's to the A90 / Xduoo TA-20 as when I double available power through a speaker AMP with plenty of current on demand internally - not needing to go to the mains to respond to instantaneous power requirements. The more capacitance / transformer power delivery capability the better the Hifiman's should sound. It's not just the power output rating, it is the "umph" the amp can muster on demand from internal resources.

I do enjoy the thin sound from the portable transistor radios on the Ananda and to a lessor extent the HE6SE V2, as compared to the usual dynamic headphones I've used for decades - the Hifiman Planar detail delivery really shines when listening for weak signals, both CW and Voice, the Hifiman Planar's really up the intelligibility of the signal.

I'm trying to enjoy my TA-20 as long as I can, so I can get enough Hifiman user reports to help decide which speaker amp to get next.

Yes, there's a difference between powering this with a low powered cell phone and a decent modern amp, but remember that a 16W speaker amp is equivalent to the 2W rating at 50 Ohms. You don't need a 150,000 W amp (Obviously, i am exaggerating)

I'm using a 50W integrated amp and it sounds quite nice. I don't think I'd want anymore power as I want to be able to control my device with the volume knob. Some of the most highly recommended amps for the Hifimans are things like the Bakoon 13R which is 25W. The Topping A90 is approximately the same as a 25W in 8ohm amp in terms of power rating.

(Also power ratings can be totally exaggerated by manufacturers.... could be rated with 10% distortion... cause you know, more power more better...)

I'll take a good quality amp that's rated at a lower number over something that's rated at 240W and sounds terrible/mediocre/ok/etc... That's just me though. (the quote I mentioned the previous post was regarding a 15W power into 50 ohm, which is approximately 240W total when used in speaker amp language)

btw, all these changes are rather subtle for the most part, at least in my opinions. audiophiles have a way of over hyping small changes for people not experienced in this. (also my personal opinion, as one of someone who reviews these things) -- dont expect a worldly change by using a different amp/dac/etc. It'll be small and subtle, but could make listening experience better, or worse.

 

[mimart7]

My next amp purchase will most likely be a GSX Mini, that should have more than enough power for these.

 

[bagwell359]

As far as I've read 2W is a *minimum* requirement for the HE6 series...more is better, so far the best reports are from those that connect directly to speaker amp's, either directly or through the Hifiman HE-Adapter - YMMV which is best sounding.

I don't think we can get too carried away with power with the HE6 series, while the "sound" characteristics of the amp also comes through, with many preferring Class A SS or Tube amp sound, it is the power that sends the HE6SE V2 to another level of performance.

I've done a little experimentation with driving both the Hifiman HE6SE V2 and Ananda on 3.5mm SE capable devices - starting with battery powered receivers (Ham, SWL) and they drive the planars adequately enough to enjoy using them at loud listening levels, but they have a very narrow sound stage and don't "light up" either headphone as compared to what I hear driving them with the Topping A90 / Xduoo TA-20.

There is no substitute for raw power, the Planars respond to having "more of it". I expect the same improvement as going from "cheap transistor" radio's to the A90 / Xduoo TA-20 as when I double available power through a speaker AMP with plenty of current on demand internally - not needing to go to the mains to respond to instantaneous power requirements. The more capacitance / transformer power delivery capability the better the Hifiman's should sound. It's not just the power output rating, it is the "umph" the amp can muster on demand from internal resources.

I do enjoy the thin sound from the portable transistor radios on the Ananda and to a lessor extent the HE6SE V2, as compared to the usual dynamic headphones I've used for decades - the Hifiman Planar detail delivery really shines when listening for weak signals, both CW and Voice, the Hifiman Planar's really up the intelligibility of the signal.

I'm trying to enjoy my TA-20 as long as I can, so I can get enough Hifiman user reports to help decide which speaker amp to get next.

The Pass Class A amps/int-amps are top of the pile for driving any HE-6. The worst one to drive is the 4 screw 6, it's about 3 db less efficient then the 6 screw. The HE-6se v1 is about the same as the 6 screw, not sure on the v2, but its probably similar. I find about 6-8 wpc @40 ohms works well (never had the 4 so not sure, maybe 8-10). I use a Ragnarok 1 which is about 15 wpc into that load, I have Class A for the first 4 watts and I do 95% of my listening in the 84-94 db, so I'm probably in Class A most of the time.

I think once you hit/get near the wattage threshold, it's all about quality that's why premiun speaker amps and premium can amps sound better, But to me if the choice is 7 wpc in Class A - is going to sound better than a big premium Class AB amp say a 200 wpc Bryston. Nothing against Bryston I had a 3B in the 80's that was quite good.

 

[hmscott]

The Pass Class A amps/int-amps are top of the pile for driving any HE-6. The worst one to drive is the 4 screw 6, it's about 3 db less efficient then the 6 screw. The HE-6se v1 is about the same as the 6 screw, not sure on the v2, but its probably similar. I find about 6-8 wpc @40 ohms works well (never had the 4 so not sure, maybe 8-10). I use a Ragnarok 1 which is about 15 wpc into that load, I have Class A for the first 4 watts and I do 95% of my listening in the 84-94 db, so I'm probably in Class A most of the time.

I think once you hit/get near the wattage threshold, it's all about quality that's why premiun speaker amps and premium can amps sound better, But to me if the choice is 7 wpc in Class A - is going to sound better than a big premium Class AB amp say a 200 wpc Bryston. Nothing against Bryston I had a 3B in the 80's that was quite good.

That's about the wattage range I was expecting, as at 2wpc even though it sounds great - there is more there there to pull out at higher power

You'd probably want to A/B the Bryston to know for sure, as I went from a 100wpc Class A amp's to a Bryston 4B => 2x7B set up's, and while the Bryston was unbearably "detailed" for the first few weeks they mellowed out - at first I wanted to go back to the Class A amps. Of course that is a bit overkill, even for the HE6E V2's

I'm still thinking tubes are the best idea for the Hifiman Planars, at least it is what I enjoy listening to most.

The Xduoo TA-20 is Tube Pre-Amp + SS Class-A output - 2Wpc...

 

[chillaxing]

I guess if the Rag2 can’t pull the bass out of the He6se, then maybe it’s not the headphone for me. I had hoped 15W at 50 Ohm should be plenty. Not too interested in changing the amp. Maybe I’ll snag the th900mk2 and compare myself with the same amp.

Doesn't matter how much power you throw at the he6se, they are NOT gonna be bass heavy with just power alone. These things aren't built and tuned that for that. In order to get basshead level slam, where your eye balls are about to vibrate out of the socket, your gonna need to scope and shape that bass line with eq (software or hardware) AND gobs of power. DISCLAIMER, if you dont know what your doing with eq dont try this!!!!!! I have to throw 20db gain @80hz and use the marantz in order to get to that level. With the jot1, forget about it. It ran out of steam before the driver began to even flex. But with the marants and its 90wpc, man o'man.... a lovely thing. But thats also the beauty of this set. After throwing that much gain at the low end, it barely bled into the mids. everything stayed nearly perfect and detailed while the bass was slamming my eardrums.

 

[hmscott]

Thanks. Am I compromising sq by lowering source volume? To be more specific, I’m running Roon > Squeezebox Touch > A-100 with the jumpers. Kind of a budget setup but will adding the Bifrost 2 whenever they decide to ship the thing. Anyways, if I put the squeezebox on fixed volume, HE6SE is deafening with a very slight turn of the knob. I kind of f’d up my left ear, it hurts now lol. Anyway, if I turn the volume on squeezebox down to like 75-80, I obviously get much more play on the amp and it sounds fine, just want to know I guess scientifically if I’m losing detail/dynamics etc by doing that

With power / pre amps / source chain, the idea is to keep the source at 100% => Pre-amp controls volume => AMP is at fixed gain. The reason for this is to keep the Signal level higher as a ratio than the noise level. The Signal to Noise Ratio is key to amplify Signal instead of Noise.

With consideration for each elements own maximum usable Signal output level it's own Signal to Noise Ratio - some get noisier or add distortion toward the top of the output range (some at the lower output range), so you get to know each devices limits and let them run at their optimal output.

If the source at it's 100% level isn't as clean as at 80%, then run at 80%. As at 100% the added distortion products aren't worth keeping - even if the Signal underlying is higher drive for the next stage device.

I used to keep each device 10%-15% down from 100% - to keep the device at a lower heat output - "for good measure", as heat can generate distortion at some point lower in the design range. These days I don't worry about it, as I've not see it to be an issue for a long time. Perhaps with overdriven designs this can still be true today. Measure for it, or listen for it.

With DAC's that have variable output controlled in the digital realm, you can loose bits of resolution, but practically with the Topping D90 down at -30dB I still can't hear any loss of quality, certainly you'd want to reduce the XLR output of the D90 when driving a device that is too sensitive to take the full 100% output of the D90 as you would overdrive the Pre-AMP/AMP and cause distortion at peaks. Some people using the D90 with other headphone AMPs have noticed this and run the D90 in Pre-mode with reduced output.

I was told by Xduoo that the TA-20 can accept up to 8V input on XLR, so no problem running the D90 at 100% into the XLR input of the TA-20, and of course the Topping A90 was designed to match the D90 output.

Find out what the output voltage is for the fixed output of your devices, and what the maximum input voltage is for your other devices in the chain to tune their outputs to match.

I hope those examples and descriptions help, questions?

Doesn't matter how much power you throw at the he6se, they are NOT gonna be bass heavy with just power alone. These things aren't built and tuned that for that. In order to get basshead level slam, where your eye balls are about to vibrate out of the socket, your gonna need to scope and shape that bass line with eq (software or hardware) AND gobs of power. DISCLAIMER, if you dont know what your doing with eq dont try this!!!!!! I have to throw 20db gain @80hz and use the marantz in order to get to that level. With the jot1, forget about it. It ran out of steam before the driver began to even flex. But with the marants and its 90wpc, man o'man.... a lovely thing. But thats also the beauty of this set. After throwing that much gain at the low end, it barely bled into the mids. everything stayed nearly perfect and detailed while the bass was slamming my eardrums.

The key components missing from the "flat/skinny" power amps without beefy power supplies to back them up is there is no power capacity internally to deliver the instantaneous current required note by note, to light up the Planars.

It's not so much the power rating of the amp, it is what the build consists of to deliver the power when it is needed.

The old classic tuners, and full build speaker amps all have in common a large core transformer and a bank of capacitors to hold the power close to the delivery - without needing to suck power from the wall - quick delivery without delay is key.

The Planar doesn't care if the power comes after the note has rung, it's too late by then to make any difference.

We can hear the difference, some static measurements that show equal power delivery between dissimilar amp builds don't match up to what our ears are hearing.

 

[bagwell359]

That's about the wattage range I was expecting, as at 2wpc even though it sounds great - there is more there there to pull out at higher power

You'd probably want to A/B the Bryston to know for sure, as I went from a 100wpc Class A amp's to a Bryston 4B => 2x7B set up's, and while the Bryston was unbearably "detailed" for the first few weeks they mellowed out - at first I wanted to go back to the Class A amps. Of course that is a bit overkill, even for the HE6E V2's

I'm still thinking tubes are the best idea for the Hifiman Planars, at least it is what I enjoy listening to most.

The Xduoo TA-20 is Tube Pre-Amp + SS Class-A output - 2Wpc...

late 70's thru mid 80's amps were a specialty for me - being a audio sales guy during most of those years. 3B better than Dyna 400/410, Ampzilla, SAE's, HK 16... But no match for the Threshold Stasis 3, Krell KSA-50/100, Sudgen's, Bedini 25/25. The only amp I'm really up on the past 20 years is the Pass X-150, it's better (because of quality plus it will never be out of Class A) than the Ragnarok 1, but it's $3500 list (or is it $4k now?) + pre-amp (~1200) vs $1695.

The RAAL dealer in my area says the Rag 1 will drive the RAAL's, then it's good enuf for the 6's.

 

[tkddans]

That's about the wattage range I was expecting, as at 2wpc even though it sounds great - there is more there there to pull out at higher power

You'd probably want to A/B the Bryston to know for sure, as I went from a 100wpc Class A amp's to a Bryston 4B => 2x7B set up's, and while the Bryston was unbearably "detailed" for the first few weeks they mellowed out - at first I wanted to go back to the Class A amps. Of course that is a bit overkill, even for the HE6E V2's

I'm still thinking tubes are the best idea for the Hifiman Planars, at least it is what I enjoy listening to most.

The Xduoo TA-20 is Tube Pre-Amp + SS Class-A output - 2Wpc...

I use my HE6SE V2 on a TA-30 and feel the same. I prefer them on this tube amp.

 

[haasaaroni]

Dang! Looks like the Ether angled pads are made of synthetic protein leather, not lambskin anymore. I ordered a pair anyway, hope they sound decent. Anyone have any idea where to find the original lambskin pads?

In case anyone's interested, looks like the Angled Ether Flow pads from Dan Clark ARE actually real leather! They might have gotten confused, the Ether 2 pads are a synthetic leather, but these are undenaibly real leather. The sound is amazing...so balanced and open.

I use my HE6SE V2 on a TA-30 and feel the same. I prefer them on this tube amp.

Loving tubes as well with my Liquid Platinum. Probably not as tubey-sounding as the TA-30, but I'm loving the combo.

 

[hmscott]

I use my HE6SE V2 on a TA-30 and feel the same. I prefer them on this tube amp.

Loving tubes as well with my Liquid Platinum. Probably not as tubey-sounding as the TA-30, but I'm loving the combo.

Yup, it really is no contest, the tube sound on Planars is complementary to the sound. And the tube hybrid SS output gets rid of interfacing complexities of a tube amp with Planars.

Given the narrowness of DAC performance differences near the top of the DAC chip stack the TA-30 really makes a lot of sense. And, if you want you can swap in another DAC source down the road.

I really do hope Xduoo keeps growing their Tube line upwards. I'd love a doubling of output power - or more - for the TA-20 successor

BTW, have either of you done any "tube rolling" yet?

 

[haasaaroni]

BTW, have either of you done any "tube rolling" yet?

Not yet. I've rolled so much with the DarkVoice, WA6-SE, and even the Bottlehead Crack now that I think I've got roll-fatigue I find nothing missing in the sound of the HE6se and the LP though, so...if it ain't broke!

 

[bagwell359]

tubes on a HE-6. not OTL surely. I don't know the current top end of the tube for cans market, but in the moderate price range I cannot think of a tube amp (not hybrid) that can provide the leading edge and avoid poor damping in the bass compared to SS amps of similar cost.

Cans do not present such a difficult drive as low output e-stats, ribbons, or dynamic which you have go hybrid or spend a huge amount of money to get a well behaved bass (but the bass slam will never match that of a Pass X series). Nor will the Jadis, ARC, etc. match a Pass X in top to bottom coherence.

I'd like to look into some of the combos you folks like.

 

[Oregonian]

That's the easiest. Just bring the screw from the HE-6 to the hardware store and go from there. Of course, do this if the Audeze stock screw is incompatible with the screw hole of the HE6sev2.

That's what I did when I replaced my stock HE500 headband.

Question for the guys who've done this conversion - do you need the extended rods or will the standard length rods work?

 

[sennfan83261]

Question for the guys who've done this conversion - do you need the extended rods or will the standard length rods work?

Well, standard rods come with the yoke set, and I believe the extended rods are a separate purchase. I'm not a tall guy and I'm near the last setting with it comes to the standard rods. Tbf, the standard rods were designed before Audeze/Drop's comfort strap headband, which added more clearance space (i.e. added more clicks of the headband for proper fit). If your head is slightly bigger than regular-size, then I would suggest to get the extended rod set too.