[steve468]

As I had found in post #5,049 above, it could be the mind getting used to a tonality. In-ear mic measurements revealed minimal differences between three-months used stock pads from the Arya Stealth and fresh stock pads from an HE1000se. I've personally found that tonal acclimatization can even occur in the middle of a live classical concert, though it can either be a case of getting hyped about the "perfect" sound and then getting used to it, else initially not liking the sound and then coming to find it agreeable. I've even switched between EQ profiles for a period and upon switching back with just two clicks found the previous EQ I used to love to sound weird. Or a new EQ profile could sound almost too bright, but vivid, then become quite more bearable after time, leaving the old EQ sounding dull.

For sure could be brain burn in. But then why does it occur in different ways with different headphones? And then why is my hearing of the HE1K consistent thereafter?

I did have one headphone, ZMF Verite Open, that had brain burn every time I put it on. But only that headphone.

Brains are weird. Just an observation I wish we knew more about brains and how brains interpret what we hear.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

For sure could be brain burn in. But then why does it occur in different ways with different headphones? And then why is my hearing of the HE1K consistent thereafter?

I did have one headphone, ZMF Verite Open, that had brain burn every time I put it on. But only that headphone.

Brains are weird. Just an observation I wish we knew more about brains and how brains interpret what we hear.

One possibility could be how the given headphone differs from what the brain expects to hear. I don't know if it is the case that headphones with relaxed upper midrange or treble "change" to become more detailed, or bright headphones "change" to become more smooth and balanced if not allowing one to more comfortably increase the volume, leading to an increase in bass and midrange. It also of course depends on the frequency response of the headphone or listening device you were previously using. For the consistency of your hearing of the HE1000, consider using a different headphone exclusively for maybe a whole day or few and then after that asking yourself if the HE1000 sounds exactly like it did a few days ago.

 

[andrewchoppa]

I’m just bewildered as to what actually is burning in. The pads? They did soften up quite a bit, but would that account for the amount of change? It was a BIG change.

Isn’t it the drivers that burn in? As in the physically moving parts?

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Isn’t it the drivers that burn in? As in the physically moving parts?

That is the typical belief, but where measurements fail to show changes in tonality (and usually also not distortion), evidence leans in favour of the change being psychological.

 

[andrewchoppa]

That is the typical belief, but where measurements fail to show changes in tonality (and usually also not distortion), evidence leans in favour of the change being psychological.

Oh ok. Wow-trippy I guess. I personally have never noticed a huge change in sound or fr with any headphones. I’m about to get Zmf bokeh and people on that thread are saying the sound/characteristics change dramatically-I’ll wait and see.

 

[bagwell359]

I’m just bewildered as to what actually is burning in. The pads? They did soften up quite a bit, but would that account for the amount of change? It was a BIG change.

The internals loosen up. Pad compression takes much longer. The longest break-in on a planar speaker was about 200 hours, on a planar headphone 120. My thing is 10 hours break-in not listening, one hour with reference transducer and one hour with new one - same cuts over and over. So you get an hour in every 11 and also vs a known reference that isn't changing.

If you just listen to it the whole time you can't figure out what is real change and what is getting used to it and thinking its a reference. There are no physical changes that are measurable and FR only isn't likely to give any insight either. My work with subwoofers in the 80's showed distinct changes in db at various Hz and changes in xmax, so the objectivist take that nothing changes is wrong in at least some cases.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

The internals loosen up. Pad compression takes much longer. The longest break-in on a planar speaker was about 200 hours, on a planar headphone 120. My thing is 10 hours break-in not listening, one hour with reference transducer and one hour with new one - same cuts over and over. So you get an hour in every 11 and also vs a known reference that isn't changing.

If you just listen to it the whole time you can't figure out what is real change and what is getting used to it and thinking its a reference. There are no physical changes that are measurable and FR only isn't likely to give any insight either. My work with subwoofers in the 80's showed distinct changes in db at various Hz and changes in xmax, so the objectivist take that nothing changes is wrong in at least some cases.

I will respect your professional experience on the matter. I had indeed read of at least dynamic driver speakers having been more likely to encounter measurable changes; I haven't seen data on large planar drivers. As for subjective assessments of driver burn-in using a reference transducer, I would still doubt at least my own ability to remember the delta between the "burning in" transducer and the reference just as much as I would doubt my ability to precisely A/B against a fading memory; maybe having two perceptually identical transducers at a starting point and listening for divergence after playing only one transducer for an extended period may be fair. At least with headphones, I haven't seen differences between sine sweep transfer functions and the envelope of multitone or noise FFTs, so I doubt we would need more than sine sweeps to assess any tonal changes. Distortion measurements on the other hand might be telling. But if the belief is that a driver is changing in tonality over time, I would prefer to use pink noise as the test signal insofar as all frequencies are presented at once and one need not wait for a particular part of the track to assess a particular frequency band (unless it is a spectrally dense track). Given that, if a measurement microphone picks up identical pink noise spectra before and after the burn-in period, but the subjective perception of that pink noise is still changed or is believed to have changed, I would be much more inclined to believe that it was the human that had changed.

 

[bagwell359]

I will respect your professional experience on the matter. I had indeed read of at least dynamic driver speakers having been more likely to encounter measurable changes; I haven't seen data on large planar drivers. As for subjective assessments of driver burn-in using a reference transducer, I would still doubt at least my own ability to remember the delta between the "burning in" transducer and the reference just as much as I would doubt my ability to precisely A/B against a fading memory; maybe having two perceptually identical transducers at a starting point and listening for divergence after playing only one transducer for an extended period may be fair. At least with headphones, I haven't seen differences between sine sweep transfer functions and the envelope of multitone or noise FFTs, so I doubt we would need more than sine sweeps to assess any tonal changes. Distortion measurements on the other hand might be telling. But if the belief is that a driver is changing in tonality over time, I would prefer to use pink noise as the test signal insofar as all frequencies are presented at once and one need not wait for a particular part of the track to assess a particular frequency band (unless it is a spectrally dense track). Given that, if a measurement microphone picks up identical pink noise spectra before and after the burn-in period, but the subjective perception of that pink noise is still changed or is believed to have changed, I would be much more inclined to believe that it was the human that had changed.

No question subjective issues are a potent barrier to objective truth in many guises.

I should point out my experience on planars/estats is almost all with speakers. I noticed it on a pair I bought, then when I was a salesman I was the "guy" that tended to the planars and noticed it with other speakers that I set up and demo'd. I thought it was curious. I met Jim Winey towards the end of that period and he was quite definitive about the effect. Later I found it true with various Martin-Logans I owned, and even more indicative was the two speakers that were well broken in (woofers and xovers) that got new mylar membranes and sure enough, they had the same symptoms again as when they were new.

As I said, Peter Aczel who was a key member of the objective counter revolution to The Absolute Sound and Stereophile wrote that break-in on the Carver Amazing Speakers was a real thing. Aczel and his associates were are right about a number of things.

Listening and understanding technical details like wine tastng can be improved by training/education, but the experience no matter what strictures are put on it are subjective.

 

[adydula]

Day 3 with new HK1000Se's...comparing to many cans I have at hand:

Great three dimensional resolution monsters..
Very light, airy, adds realism to live performances.
Nothing gets hidden with these,
Amazing bass as well.

Easy to drive...
Testing with several amps/dacs here...

Great CanJam Price deal as well!

Alex

Listening to Larry Carltons "Alone but Never Alone" CD, his "Carrying You" is a great open airy presentation that shines with these cans....sublime.
The entire CD just sparkles with goodness.

 

[andrewchoppa]

Day 3 with new HK1000Se's...comparing to many cans I have at hand:



Great three dimensional resolution monsters..
Very light, airy, adds realism to live performances.
Nothing gets hidden with these,
Amazing bass as well.

Easy to drive...
Testing with several amps/dacs here...

Great CanJam Price deal as well!

Alex

Listening to Larry Carltons "Alone but Never Alone" CD, his "Carrying You" is a great open airy presentation that shines with these cans....sublime.
The entire CD just sparkles with goodness.

Can I be rude and ask what the price was at canjam?

 

[adydula]

Can I be rude and ask what the price was at canjam?

PM sent

 

[davehutch]

Hi everyone, just gathering some thoughts here as I'm in a position to buy an amp for my HE1000SEs.
I have made a shortlist and have also listened to a few now but I thought I'd just throw it out there:

For around £1,000 ($1,300) and of course, ideally less!, what amps would you recommend I ensure are on my shortlist?
My DAC is, and will probably remain, the Chord Mojo 2 so single-ended input is fine.
I am looking for 'musicality', a touch of warmth but not too much. Realism, good timbre and good dynamics.
Music genres are a bit of everything, mostly jazz, no EDM, heavy rock, metal or rap.

My current shortlist of SS and Hybrid amps is:
*Addition* HiFiMan EF600
Violectric HPA V-222
Aune S17 Pro
Burson Audio Soloist 3XP
Xduoo TA-20 Plus
Schiit Lyr+

Your thoughts would be much appreciated

 

[meomap]

Hi everyone, just gathering some thoughts here as I'm in a position to buy an amp for my HE1000SEs.
I have made a shortlist and have also listened to a few now but I thought I'd just throw it out there:

For around £1,000 ($1,300) and of course, ideally less!, what amps would you recommend I ensure are on my shortlist?
My DAC is, and will probably remain, the Chord Mojo 2 so single-ended input is fine.
I am looking for 'musicality', a touch of warmth but not too much. Realism, good timbre and good dynamics.
Music genres are a bit of everything, mostly jazz, no EDM, heavy rock, metal or rap.

My current shortlist of SS and Hybrid amps is:
Violectric HPA V-222
Aune S17 Pro
Burson Audio Soloist 3XP
Xduoo TA-20 Plus
Schiit Lyr+

Your thoughts would be much appreciated

A used WA6SE tube amp. Fantastic amp to pair with HE1000SE and mojo2 as DAC.

 

[davehutch]

A used WA6SE tube amp. Fantastic amp to pair with HE1000SE and mojo2 as DAC.

Do Woo attend the CanJams and if so, do they do deals?

 

[meomap]

Do Woo attend the CanJams and if so, do they do deals?

Doubt it.