[srkbear]

I seem to going backwards here. I bought the HE1000 when it first came out and loved it for what it was. It wasn't much later they announced the V2 and I refused to pay another $X amount to upgrade to V2. I felt a bit betrayed by HiFiman's business model. I bought a Focal Utopia which I never really enjoyed but I kept the two for the next three years rotating them. When the original earpads on the HE1000 wore out I ordered the V2 pads. Before replacing them I performed the foam mod suggested by some daring soul on HeadFi. I thought the mod and the V2 ear pads had the headphone sounding much more to my liking which prompted me to sell the Utopia. With the proceed of the sale I bought a used HEKse which I accepted had to be the superior headphone. Therefore the HEK just sat there for another year and a half while I debated on whether or not to sell them and let someone else enjoy them instead of gathering dust.

Anyway, a few days ago I decided to give the old unit a listen. I was really surprised to find that I enjoy the HE1000 more than the HEKse. I didn't even think it was possible. The OG had stayed plugged in since.

Like srkbear mentioned above, it's just more fun.

It’s just a lesson for me that chasing cost as a measure of quality is not always the best strategy. Like I mentioned the Edition XS is more tantalizing to me than my Utopias right now. I’m glad I have them for critical listening, but the flagships seem to be designed for a certain rarified set, and I’ve been disappointed with buyer’s remorse after going for broke one too many times.

What I can say is that Hifiman makes some great headphones, especially with their HEK line. You really can’t go wrong with any of them in this segment!

 

[srkbear]

I've mentioned this more than a few times.
I owned both the Susvara & v2 at the same time (w/ WA33) and sold off the Susvara and still own my v2 and enjoy them immensely.

My decision to post was in large part inspired by yours.

 

[cfranchi]

I have the Susvara, SE, V2 and Edition XS sitting in front of me now, along with my first insane purchase from a couple of years ago, my Focal Utopias. I’ve gotten tired of their clinical/critical tuning and “intimate” soundstage and I’m looking for something more fun and exciting for a change.

I’m running these on an iFi Pro iCAN Signature amp with 14 watts of balanced power @16 ohms, so I’m not hindered by any sensitivity limitations in that regard. I’ve owned the Edition XS for awhile, but I’ve been auditioning the two HEK versions and the Susvara for a little over a week. Here are my thoughts, for what they’re worth…

My easiest decision was the Susvaras. They’re going back, I don’t even need to give it a second thought. Are they brilliant, awe-inspiring, perfect? I guess I’d have to say yes, they’re probably the best audiophile flagship on the market to this day, although you’d think for $6,000 they could get the build flawless, which it isn’t. The soundstage is stratospheric, they move faster than the laws of physics seem to allow, the imaging and detail retrieval are superb. And the tuning is as impeccably neutral as you’d expect for the discerning snooty audiophile surrounded by stacks of Deutsche Grammophon records. Exactly what I’ve grown used to with my Utopias, although these outdo them in soundstage and bass response.

But I’m looking for some FUN. Is it just me, or do some premium manufacturers seem to think that there are no serious audiophiles who like rock, punk, New Wave, SynthPop or Hip Hop? Those genres are certainly my preference, and I’m left to wonder why my Edition XS’s excite me more than this $6,000 masterpiece of engineering. If I’m going to part ways with that much cash, those headphones better get my heart racing, and the Susvaras just don’t. Not worth it, moving on.

So it’s down to the HE1000se vs the v2. Both of these delight me exponentially more than the Susvaras at first listen. I’m trying not to get biased by their $1,500 difference in price tag, and the fact that the se’s are “newer”. I imagine some folks might consider the se’s an upgrade over the V2 (HiFiMan themselves suggest this based on their upgrade program, based on price, gotcha), but I’m not one of them. I think they each have their plusses and minuses, their strengths and weaknesses. But neither of them misses the mark in a deal-breaker kinda way. I think they both shine for different purposes and tastes.

The only objective difference I can attest to is that the v2 costs $1,999 and the se $3,499. They share similar driver/diaphragms but the se has the Susvara’s “Stealth” magnet tech and the v2 does not. They both look fantastic, depending on which one they ship you from their stock. They both have these ridiculous rubber-bandy cables that make sense to no one ever.

And to me they both sound fantastic! Without question I prefer the oval pads leaps and bounds over the round Susvaras and Sundaras—not only do I find them more comfortable, but I think they significantly widen the listening stage and do wonders for the sub bass frequencies. Both of them rattle my skull pleasingly in ways the Susvara just doesn’t, no matter how precise its bass may be.

But after several lengthy listens from a range of musical genres, I really think I prefer the V2s. I wish I didn’t, because I think the se’s are a tiny bit more resolving and detailed and slightly more refined in their construction and design than the V2s. Perhaps with the Stealth magnet they really did offer a legitimate advance (I for SURE think the se is a better contender for their all-around flagship status than the Susvara, for its versatility alone). And at 96 db they are a tad bit easier to drive than the V2s. But neither are fit for a dongle and I didn’t really notice much difference in power demands. With the Susvaras I sure as hell did—a sensitivity of 83 to me is a design flaw that they should be able to solve.

But the soundstage of the V2 is demonstrably wider than the se. The bass may be a sliver less tight and controlled than the se, but boy is there more of it, and it’s a blast to experience. And I don’t know about the rest of you, but I find the se’s to be just a tad bit shouty in the upper mids and highs in a way that has caused me fatigue that I don’t experience with the V2s. If I kept either one of them I’d probably acquiesce to their sound and be perfectly happy. But when I have them side by side, I’m more drawn to the V2 for its phenomenal soundstage and slam—they’re offering me precisely the kind of fun I’ve been looking for.

So knowing my luck, I’ll probably keep them, and in five weeks HiFiMan will come out with a brand new HE1000V3 that has everything I love about these plus the stealth magnet. That’s what happened with my 2020 Utopia, and if anything seems compelling/reassuring about saving that extra $1,500 instead of succumbing to FOMO and prestige, it’s that.

How would you compare XS vs V2 ? Is XS more lively than V2 ?

 

[srkbear]

How would you compare XS vs V2 ? Is XS more lively than V2 ?

I think the XS is basically the V2’s little brother. They are remarkably similar in all aspects except for build quality, obviously—the XS is mostly plastic—and the V2s are more detailed and precise across all frequencies. But I think the XS is equally fun to listen to, has a fantastic soundstage, has Harman tuning and bass that goes on forever (it’s more prominent than the V2–you can feel it, which is rare for a headphone).

I think it is undoubtably the best headphone you can get for less than a grand, and it can be driven beautifully by my xDSD Gryphon portable. As I mentioned before, it tore me away from my Utopias, which is a tall order.

PS The Edition XS is superior to the open-backed Sundaras in just about every capacity—particularly soundstage and sub bass. I haven’t heard the closed back Sundaras, but given how much I think the oval pads improve both of these factors, I suspect the XS outdoes both versions. To me the XS is the perfection of their consumer level price tier, and I know of nothing else at this price point that touches it (IMHO only).

 

[Arcamera]

Great writeup srkbear. I still slightly prefer the SE over the V2, but both are fine (with EQ for me).

I appreciate your point about the inefficiency of the Susvara-- I can't help but see it as an imperfection/design flaw as well.

 

[srkbear]

Great writeup srkbear. I still slightly prefer the SE over the V2, but both are fine (with EQ for me).

I appreciate your point about the inefficiency of the Susvara-- I can't help but see it as an imperfection/design flaw as well.

Thank you, I think your point about adding EQ or PEQ to the SE is well-taken. I use Roon and have been using convolution files or Oratory’s PEQ recs for my Utopias for a long time now. You’ve inspired me to try some more tuning adjustments for the brightness of the SE to compare with the V2 before I make my final decision. Again I don’t think I could go wrong with either.

Does anyone know whether HFM is still offering their upgrade program? I do have some concerns that a refresh of the V2 with stealth magnets may be forthcoming—after all they’re on the third iteration of the Aryas. They’re overdue for a next generation flagship, especially since Meze released the Elites, Dan Clark the Expanse, Audeze the LCD5 and Focal the Utopia 2022 in the past year…

 

[srkbear]

Yep, it looks like the upgrade program is still available for the time being…

https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/exclusive-offer-for-loyal-he1000-v1-owners.html

 

[cfranchi]

I think the XS is basically the V2’s little brother. They are remarkably similar in all aspects except for build quality, obviously—the XS is mostly plastic—and the V2s are more detailed and precise across all frequencies. But I think the XS is equally fun to listen to, has a fantastic soundstage, has Harman tuning and bass that goes on forever (it’s more prominent than the V2–you can feel it, which is rare for a headphone).

I think it is undoubtably the best headphone you can get for less than a grand, and it can be driven beautifully by my xDSD Gryphon portable. As I mentioned before, it tore me away from my Utopias, which is a tall order.

PS The Edition XS is superior to the open-backed Sundaras in just about every capacity—particularly soundstage and sub bass. I haven’t heard the closed back Sundaras, but given how much I think the oval pads improve both of these factors, I suspect the XS outdoes both versions. To me the XS is the perfection of their consumer level price tier, and I know of nothing else at this price point that touches it (IMHO only).

Hello again,
What about vocals with XS ?
I read some reviews that said vocals timbre is not a strong point:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/hifiman-edition-xs-planar-headphones/5.htm

 

[BowWazoo]

There are also people who say,
that the Arya Steahlt would be the little brother of the HEK V2.
I had both of them and did not agree with that.
I brought both to the same FR (oratory) and compared them.
For me the Arya Stealth was far from the V2 ...

 

[cfranchi]

There are also people who say,
that the Arya Steahlt would be the little brother of the HEK V2.
I had both of them and did not agree with that.
I brought both to the same FR (oratory) and compared them.
For me the Arya Stealth was far from the V2 ...

I guess Arya V1/V2 is more like HEK V2, Arya Stealth would be more like HEKse

 

[BowWazoo]

I also had the Arya v2.
In my opinion, it is even further away from the HEK V2 than the Arya Steahlt.
In other words, completely different league

 

[srkbear]

I guess Arya V1/V2 is more like HEK V2, Arya Stealth would be more like HEKse

I think the HEKV2 and se are worlds away from the Aryas I’ve heard, but I haven’t heard the Stealth version. I far prefer the XS over the Arya 2. I’ve always thought that the Arya is overpriced; perhaps the Stealth version justifies its cost but someone else would have to answer that for me.

As far as the vocals go with the XS, I think they sound terrific, but I’m only going by my own tastes. I think the se’s vocals are a bit bright and fatiguing without EQ, and with the XS (and HEKV2) I don’t need EQ at all. I maintain that the XS and V2 share similar qualities in terms of soundstage and tuning, which is why I called the XS the “little brother” of the HEKV2.

Perhaps the Arya Stealth and se might have common attributes based on the similarities of their designs, I don’t know. Currently I’m availing myself of Amazon’s return policy to audition the se, V2 and Susvara. If you’re still tenuous about the HS I encourage you to give it a try, if that’s more in line with your budget. To be frank if I had only heard the XS and didn’t know about these pricier offerings I would be perfectly content with it—it’s a fantastic option for any price point.

 

[srkbear]

OK now after nearly two weeks of comparing the cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in, and with some PEQ experiments I’m starting to favor the se over the V2 (dammit). I still think the V2 has a slightly wider soundstage, but the bass in the se is starting to get seductive now that I’ve pared down the highs a bit.

Unfortunately the se I received has some build asymmetry that I don’t see in the V2–I received the V2s directly from HFM, while the se’s were shipped from an Amazon store front called “sportique” that has a review score of 83%—they aren’t a dedicated audio shop so I’m not certain whether I may have gotten a B stock model or some other false provenance unit. Such is the downside of dealing with HFM’s QC standards.

Either way I’m guessing that I may end up with the SE after all. Has anyone out there had any listening time with DCA’s Expanse or Stealth for comparison with these HFM models? They’re the only competitors with similar pad shapes and tuning that have tempted me of late…

 

[borkenarrou]

OK now after nearly two weeks of comparing the cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in, and with some PEQ experiments I’m starting to favor the se over the V2 (dammit). I still think the V2 has a slightly wider soundstage, but the bass in the se is starting to get seductive now that I’ve pared down the highs a bit.

Unfortunately the se I received has some build asymmetry that I don’t see in the V2–I received the V2s directly from HFM, while the se’s were shipped from an Amazon store front called “sportique” that has a review score of 83%—they aren’t a dedicated audio shop so I’m not certain whether I may have gotten a B stock model or some other false provenance unit. Such is the downside of dealing with HFM’s QC standards.

Either way I’m guessing that I may end up with the SE after all. Has anyone out there had any listening time with DCA’s Expanse or Stealth for comparison with these HFM models? They’re the only competitors with similar pad shapes and tuning that have tempted me of late…

Wave Theory has compared both.

 

[srkbear]

Wave Theory has compared both.

This was great, thanks for the reference! Pretty much confirms my own experience with the V2, se and Susvara, and reinforces my fondness for HFM as a brand overall. I think I’m done looking (for the time being anyway).

The se is an extraordinary headphone, and tons of fun.