[Gibson59]

Chord dacs are really special , i love them , I have the Hugo 2 as my main DAC and it works fine , and the cross feed is the secret with chord dacs,, its a must with headphones.
I may upgrade to the TT2 but i don't feel the need at the moment , i am tempted to get Mscaler first.
Hugo 2 alone can't power the HE1000se with the best quality , you need an amp that's for sure.

Interesting, you’re the first I’ve heard suggest that the Hugo 2 won’t dive all the sound quality out of a sensitive can like the SE. That’s disappointing. I’m nervous about having to use my Wells Milo amp with the Hugo 2 because many have suggested that chord products sound better by themselves. However when I used the DAVE + amp yesterday it sounded unbelievable.

 

[GU1DO]

Interesting, you’re the first I’ve heard suggest that the Hugo 2 won’t dive all the sound quality out of a sensitive can like the SE. That’s disappointing. I’m nervous about having to use my Wells Milo amp with the Hugo 2 because many have suggested that chord products sound better by themselves. However when I used the DAVE + amp yesterday it sounded unbelievable.

Yes some members think that amp add distortion to the signal and they forget that a headphone driver need and will perform at its best with total control from the amp which give best imaging and sound stage ,,

added distortion (if it is true) would effect tiny micro details but what about other parts of the sound ? my Formula S give me all the details in the front and the back of the sound stage and am not missing a thing in imaging compared to the Hugo2 alone which sound good but still i am missing a lot of the real true to life experience with the Formula S.

 

[JaZZ]

Interesting, you’re the first I’ve heard suggest that the Hugo 2 won’t dive all the sound quality out of a sensitive can like the SE. That’s disappointing. I’m nervous about having to use my Wells Milo amp with the Hugo 2 because many have suggested that chord products sound better by themselves. However when I used the DAVE + amp yesterday it sounded unbelievable.

I feel obliged to add my two cents, since I'm one of the advocates of the maxime «Say no to amps!» Actually there are enough HE1000 (V1, V2) users who drive their favorite headphone (probably in most cases) direct from the DAVE, and there may be even a few Hugo₂ owners who do the same (if they haven't been talked into using an amp). Logically my standard configuration today is the DAVE/HE1000 pairing, but before the DAVE area the Hugo₁ was at its place – to my full satisfaction, to say the least. Since I own a few high-quality headphone amps, I've tried them out of interest, but none came close to the sound of the direct connection in terms of impulsivity, clarity and control.

Yes some members think that amp add distortion to the signal and they forget that a headphone driver need and will perform at its best with total control from the amp which give best imaging and sound stage.

added distortion (if it is true) would effect tiny micro details but what about other parts of the sound ? my Formula S give me all the details in the front and the back of the sound stage and am not missing a thing in imaging compared to the Hugo2 alone which sound good but still i am missing a lot of the real true to life experience with the Formula S.

Show me an amp that sounds like a wire with gain! I haven't met one. So what causes most of the difference compared to the input signal is harmonic distortion, there's no question about it. You're using a popular argument for an amp: control. I suppose you're not familiar with amplifier electronics. The only sort of control an amp has over membrane movement is via an output impedance as low as possible to avoid an emphasis of the resonant frequency. That's valid primarily for dynamic headphones. Planar magnetic headphones with their almost flat impedance response don't bear that risk, at least not to the same degree. So when you want maximum membrane control in any case, your choice should be the Hugo₂ – direct! Its output impedance of just 0.025 Ω is probably unrivalled among all the headphone amps you've ever tried. It belongs to Rob's concept «shortest signal path for maximum accuracy and transparency».

To weissja36:
There's a reason for the large preference of the direct connection with Chord DAC/amps. It's simply the best variant if you value honesty and transparency over euphonic effets such as artificial warmth or phat bass. With its even higher output power than my then Hugo₁ the Hugo₂ will have even less power problems with the HE1000, and now that we're talking about the HE1000 SE, there's no question that it will be an appropriate match both sonically and in terms of power reserves. Right now I'm listening to the Hugo₂/HE1000 just out of interest, and there's not the least wish to change something on the sound characteristic.
Of course the TT₂ will be even better than the Hugo₂, but with the M Scaler in the mix the latter is an option that deserves to be taken seriously.

Addendum: I'm a medium- to rather high-level listener.

 

[GU1DO]

I feel obliged to add my two cents, since I'm one of the advocates of the maxime «Say no to amps!» Actually there are enough HE1000 (V1, V2) users who drive their favorite headphone (probably in most cases) direct from the DAVE, and there may be even a few Hugo₂ owners who do the same (if they haven't been talked into using an amp). Logically my standard configuration today is the DAVE/HE1000 pairing, but before the DAVE area the Hugo₁ was at its place – to my full satisfaction, to say the least. Since I own a few high-quality headphone amps, I've tried them out of interest, but none came close to the sound of the direct connection in terms of impulsivity, clarity and control.
Show me an amp that sounds like a wire with gain! I haven't met one. So what causes most of the difference compared to the input signal is harmonic distortion, there's no question about it. You're using a popular argument for an amp: control. I suppose you're not familiar with amplifier electronics. The only sort of control an amp has over membrane movement is via an output impedance as low as possible to avoid an emphasis of the resonant frequency. That's valid primarily for dynamic headphones. Planar magnetic headphones with their almost flat impedance response don't bear that risk, at least not to the same degree. So when you want maximum membrane control in any case, your choice should be the Hugo₂ – direct! Its output impedance of just 0.025 Ω is probably unrivalled among all the headphone amps you've ever tried. It belongs to Rob's concept «shortest signal path for maximum accuracy and transparency».

To weissja36:
There's a reason for the large preference of the direct connection with Chord DAC/amps. It's simply the best variant if you value honesty and transparency over euphonic effets such as artificial warmth of phat bass. With its even higher output power than my then Hugo₁ the Hugo₂ will have even less power problems with the HE1000, and now that we're talking about the HE1000 SE, there's no question that it will be an appropriate match both sonically and in terms of power reserves. Right now I'm listening to the Hugo₂/HE1000 just out of interest, and there's not the least wish to change something on the sound characteristic.
Of course the TT₂ will be even better than the Hugo₂, but with the M Scaler in the mix the latter is an option that deserves to be taken seriously.

Addendum: I'm a medium- to rather high-level listener.

Kudos to you if the Hugo2 is more than enough for you ,, but for me it doesn't cut it , i love real life imaging with will separated layers , i just was trying it one more time with this track and it sounded crowded with the Hugo2 , but with the amp i could hear everything clearly at its place , without adding any warmth or bass ,, i may miss some of the micro details if i compare only, but what i gain worth the minor loss for me.

 

[JaZZ]

Kudos to you if the Hugo2 is more than enough for you ,, but for me it doesn't cut it , i love real life imaging with will separated layers , i just was trying it one more time with this track and it sounded crowded with the Hugo2 , but with the amp i could hear everything clearly at its place , without adding any warmth or bass ,, i may miss some of the micro details if i compare only, but what i gain worth the minor loss for me.

That's not the correct interpretation you're trying to establish: In contrary I am not satisfied with the euphonic colorations added by any of the amps I have tried, my decision is based on the sonic result, not ideology: The direct connection always sounds best, also in the criteria you've mentioned. Obviously we have different sonic ideals (apart from different ears). One of Rob Watts' statements was: «Some people like harmonic distortion.» I'm adding: The more so if they compensate for the headphone's imperfections, be it by tonal synergy or forgivingness. I belong to those who use an equalizer for perfecting the sound instead of harmonic distortion.

 

[GU1DO]

That's not the correct interpretation you're trying to establish: In contrary I am not satisfied with the euphonic colorations added by any of the amps I have tried, my decision is based on the sonic result, not ideology: The direct connection always sounds best, also in the criteria you've mentioned. Obviously we have different sonic ideals (apart from different ears). One of Rob Watts' statements was: «Some people like harmonic distortion.» I'm adding: The more so if they compensate for the headphone's imperfections, be it by tonal synergy or forgivingness. I belong to those who use an equalizer for perfecting the sound instead of harmonic distortion.

I am sure your prescriptive is not bad by any means , its just different , like you said we have different sonic ideals and ears, it could be your hearing is better than mine and doesn't need the extra information (not harmonic distortion) to reach the same result.

 

[montanari]

let s repeat the same stuff until people start to think it s the true

 

[chimney189]

I have one in my drawer, I can try it tonight and report back to you if you want

Any impressions yet?

 

[SilverEars]

Since HEKSE is more efficient and a different driver from V1 or 2, maybe DAVE headphone out drives it fine without weird tonal response.

Having an amp connected to a preamp like DAC doesn't mean it will sound worse, or less transparent. The right amp will drive the headphone better, but the headphone out, out of the DAC can sound worse depending on the headphone. Most cases the headphone being driven properly is the purpose of a separate amp.

In certain cases coloration is desired. I personally think at this point headphone itself is a coloration, and amp and dac changes the coloration in various ways to less degree with particulars of sound.

If an amp or DAC tames undesirable highs or changes the treble characteristic for smoothness, we can refer to that as color and be desireable (given transparency is still there).

After you try a lot of headphones, you notice headphones sound different and becomes hard to tell what is REAL transparency. I think it's because recording mastering varies.

 

[JaZZ]

Since HEKSE is more efficient and a different driver from V1 or 2, maybe DAVE headphone out drives it fine without weird tonal response.

Having an amp connected to a preamp like DAC doesn't mean it will sound worse, or less transparent. The right amp will drive the headphone better, but the headphone out, out of the DAC can sound worse depending on the headphone. Most cases the headphone being driven properly is the purpose of a separate amp.

In certain cases coloration is desired. I personally think at this point headphone itself is a coloration, and amp and dac changes the coloration in various ways to less degree with particulars of sound.

If an amp or DAC tames undesirable highs or changes the treble characteristic for smoothness, we can refer to that as color and be desireable (given transparency is still there).

After you try a lot of headphones, you notice headphones sound different and becomes hard to tell what is REAL transparency. I think it's because recording mastering varies.

You're aware that Chord DACs with built-in headphone amps are very different from conventional DAC with a added headphone out, aren't you? With the latter you will probably benefit from an external amp, which you feed by the line output, thus bypassing the headphone output. With Chord's DAVE, Hugo & Co. that's not possible – you add a bunch of further analogue electronics components to the signal path and feed it by the same signal that you consider not good enough by itself. After posting and reading in this forum you should actually know that the headphone output is designed in a way to offer least harmonic distortion, lowest output impedance and shortest signal path for maximum accuracy and transparency – since every solder joint is audible, not to speak of massive electronics components.

Your sanctification of amplifiers in terms of transparency is based on wishful thinking. Yes, of course they have the ability to compensate for sound transducer imperfections in the right combination, but that's still not optimal, since coloration predominantly consists of harmonic distortion, which is detrimental to transparency. You're better off using a (digital!) equalizer than harmonic distortion for fixing the sound tranducers' flaws – since they normally don't add harmonic distortion and moreover are able to also equalize the acoustic phase response.

 

[Gibson59]

@JaZZ just wanted to say that today I found out with 100% certainty (well at least it me ears) that some chord products sound best when running a headphone straight into them rather through than an external amp.

I went to demo a bunch of gear and found that I really enjoyed my HE1000se directly into the Hugo 2, however I did not enjoy the sound when I used only the DAC portion of the Hugo 2 powered by my Milo amp (regardless of which filter I used). That was very interesting to experience.

However my biggest takeaway from the day was that my MUCH preferred combo was the Chord Qutest DAC into my Milo amp. This sounded absolutely wonderful! It had all the control, composure, detail, realism of the chord sound and with power and body to the sound. When I went back to using only the Hugo 2, the sound was lovely and got plenty loud on the HE1000se, but is was missing a bit of the body and not digging as deep into the music and the textures like the Qutest/Milo combo. The other thing I didn’t expect was that the soundstage and 3D imaging was much improved on the Qutest/Milo combo than with the Hugo 2.

I really went into today wanting the Hugo 2 and with the Qutest barely on my radar. I left the day absolutely wanting the Qutest to pair with my Milo. The downside with this decision will be no (or less I suppose) portability. The upside (in addition to better sound quality IMO) is that the Qutest seems to be a better dedicated desktop solution for me. It will serve both my headphone amp and speaker amp and at some point I may add the Mscaler. Don’t even get me started on the Mscaler btw. Jesus, that thing is just amazing and unfortunately I probably should spring for one right now. But damn am I tempted.

I’m going to wait a couple weeks to try out the Hugo TT 2 and then decide between that and the Qutest. At it’s much higher price, the TT 2 will have to really excel over the Qutest (without the Mscaler on either) for me to opt for it. But I’ve been known to overspend lol.

 

[ufospls2]

Isn't the Hugo2 exactly the same DAC wise in terms of sonics as the Qutest? The Qutest just lacks the headphone amp section and whatnot?

 

[montanari]

Exactly
Keep on reading A lot of confusion and misleading information

 

[Gibson59]

I can’t say 100% that it’s the same DAC or is not the same. What I can say with 100% certainty is that there was zero question to my ears that the Qutest + Milo amp sounded better than both the Hugo 2 by itself or Hugo 2 + Milo amp. I did enjoy the Hugo 2 when it was by itself, but didn’t enjoy it with an amp plugged in.

You can’t run a headphone directly into the Qutest so it needs an external amp. I really don’t think comparing the Hugo 2 and Qutest is apples to apples. Even if they do happen to have the same DAC section, I can tell you they don’t sound the same. There are other things going on internally with both that I won’t even try to speculate on, but I’m sure those play into sound differences as well. Since the Qutest relies on an external amp I guess it’s really no wonder that it wouldn’t sound exactly like the Hugo 2 anyways.

Just to clarify... Hugo 2 by itself is no slouch and I genuinely enjoyed it. Nothing bad to say about it. IMO the external amp hurts the sound quality. But that may have been poor synergy with my Milo amp for whatever reason. Maybe it sounds better with other amps and I know there are some out there that like Hugo 2 with an amp. I’m just not one of them.

Hugo 2 alone vs Qutest + Milo... the latter won easily for me. I’m so happy I had the chance to demo side by side and different configurations in a nice quiet environment. I’m convinced that’s the only way to know for sure what’s best for your individual ears.

Btw huge thanks to @TSAVAlan who was a enormous help running all this gear. The Source AV in Los Angeles is an awesome shop. If anyone is in the area do yourself a favor and go check it out. It’s basically your own personal CanJam. They have every high end headphone, DAC, amp and cables you would want to try.

 

[delirium]

Any impressions on he1000 se yet.....please!,,,,,,,!,,,,,,,