[beardz]

Umm, US patent law was not rendered obsolete with respect to Sony's expired patents, US patent law is operating as it should, as it has been for over a hundred years. When the patent term is finished, the patent is expired and the subject matter disclosed by the patent becomes public domain for any entity to use what's disclosed therein. That's the essential quid pro quo of patents where the government allows the inventors or the assignees of the granted patent a temporary monopoly in exchange for public disclosure of their new and novel invention. The public can look at the patent and try to work around the contours claimed by the patent to make something that is apart from and not covered by the patent claims or simply wait for the patents to expire, which automatically transfers their claims into the public domain.

Thanks, didn’t know that.

 

[sennfan83261]

Thanks, didn’t know that.

Yeah, technically Hifiman can do what it pleases as to Sony's expired patents. However, I do think that the patent-related statement from Dr. Fang was a particularly bad bit of PR no matter how factually and legally correct it may be.

 

[beardz]

Yeah, not the kind of stuff you want to brag about...

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Ahh..so it’s not 5 grand..but 5500? I did think the price seemed terribly cheap...especially for a design that uses a headband from a 150$ headphone.

 

[freeza2001]

150$? Don't be rediculous. More like 100$ . May I present you the 100$ USD He400se. But seriously, it takes some monstrosity lv of balls to use the same headband on both the entry product and flagship, is that a industry first? owait......hek did it first, and that didn't stop people from buying it. we only have ourself to blame here.

 

[ThanatosVI]

150$? Don't be rediculous. More like 100$ . May I present you the 100$ USD He400se. But seriously, it takes some monstrosity lv of balls to use the same headband on both the entry product and flagship, is that a industry first? owait......hek did it first, and that didn't stop people from buying it. we only have ourself to blame here.

Hek never had the entry level headband. I wonder what the He400Se is like, (any news on that?)
However I totally agree, that a flagship shouldn't use a "cheap" headband like that. If you look at it, my mind goes "ah a closed back deva" and doesn't even consider it to be a flagship.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Heh...I am currently waiting on my newly ordered HE400se
That’s the thing about Hifiman, it is a company that both offers incredible value as well as deals where one would expect the headphone to be made of sapphires and rare magnets gathered from the outer rim of the solar system...but it’s not.

 

[432789]

If I was Hifiman. and I said Gee I know its shameless but lets create a copy of our competitor´s legendary product to capitalize on the great name and market it has created over the years. I personally would atleast make an exact copy of the product, quality wise. or exceed it. but this thing which they put together and called it R10, clearly shows just how much hifiman thinks about their consumers. Its like adding insult to Injury.

 

[sennfan83261]

Here's the HE-R10 (planar) FR published from Hifiman recently. I don't know what rig they used, whether this is a compensated curve or raw data, etc... discuss!

 

[beardz]

That elevation in the 500-3k range doesn't look very appealing to me. Assuming this is weighted, that's quite a bit of emphasis on the mids. Might result in a forward presentation, but it's also followed by a dip at 4k, and then a peak at 6-7k... Won't be surprised if it ends up sounding a bit too sharp in the upper mids as a result.

 

[beardz]

Then again, that's just an assumption... But that 3-6k range could use some work, IMHO. Correct me if I'm reading this wrong.

 

[Stereo Skunk]

I'd like to take this opportunity to stand up for HiFiMan.

 

[Slater91]

That elevation in the 500-3k range doesn't look very appealing to me. Assuming this is weighted, that's quite a bit of emphasis on the mids. Might result in a forward presentation, but it's also followed by a dip at 4k, and then a peak at 6-7k... Won't be surprised if it ends up sounding a bit too sharp in the upper mids as a result.

That's actually a good assumption on your part. I've been trying these headphones for a few days now and that graph perfectly describes the sound as I hear it, that curve is spot on. Mids tend to be really forward, with a good chunk of emphasis on the upper region that results in some sharpness and sibilance. It's nothing too worrying, honestly, but it's there and it's easily heard. You can hear that something's not quite right, but overall it's not too dramatic.
On the other hand, though, the imaging on these things is absolutely terrific. You can tell exactly where the instruments are with pinpoint precision. It's amazing. Soundstage is that of a closed back, although very, very wide. Instrument separation is also top notch.
Honestly, they're great headphones from a technical standpoint. I don't know if they're worth $5500 because of this, especially given the poor headband, and I personally think they would be much better value at half that price (I mean, with this money you can buy the Warwick Acoustics Sonoma M1 which is in another class entirely...). But they're very good headphones. I'll have a review ready in a few days.

 

[SilverEars]

Here's the HE-R10 (planar) FR published from Hifiman recently. I don't know what rig they used, whether this is a compensated curve or raw data, etc... discuss!

Looks like Audio Technica sound sig with sub bass. I wonder if that 4k dip is Palipads doing? Is using Palipads?

Based on the measurement, I postulate that mids will have some honkiness, and upper-mids will lack some presence. Since the Audio Technica headphones are closed-backs as well, I assume the mids rise is due to internal closed-back resonance.

Is there a well measured Sony R10 for comparison?

But, I also wait for more accurate rigs to show the response.

 

[Sajid Amit]

Hi Everyone. I am new to this thread, but quite a regular on the Susvara thread. My Susvara review here.

I received the Hifiman R10P a couple of days earlier. Initial impressions below.

1. Very easy to drive but may be amplifier-picky, nonetheless.

2. It sounds unbelievably better on my Pass Labs XA25 amplifier than on my otherwise, irreproachable, Accuphase e380. My Pass XA25 produces no noise on the R10P, and improves the presentation compared to the Accuphase, GSX Mini, etc.

3. Macro dynamics absolutely class-leading. I haven’t heard this level of slam and punch on any headphone! Will A/B with the 1266 Phi TC soon, to confirm.

4. Bass is fantastic. Its low, it rumbles, and it’s textured.

5. Imaging is class-leading. Stand-out imaging. It's very easy to follow different instrument lines. In fact, if a newbie ever asks what imaging is, I think this headphone may be an ideal place to start.

6. Female vocals sound gorgeous. I was stunned even when A/B-ing with the Susvara.

7. Male vocals sound good, but need to test with a larger variety of vocals, from the baritone to the soprano.

8. Comfort and ergonomics top notch.

Summary: This is a bloody good headphone!

Disclaimer:

• Since I am new to this thread, I should disclaim about my amps. All these impressions are based on the Pass Labs pairing and not the Accuphase pairing.
• My Pass Labs amp is the XA25 and XP12 as pre-amp. I bought it to drive the Susvaras. But it's relatively low power output and really low noise floor means it can drive even my super efficient headphones beautifully.
• My Accuphase amp is the Accuphase e380. I bought it to drive the Susvaras + my Sonus Fabers + and it's headphone out drives my Final D8000 better than any TOTL headphone amp I have tried, including those from head amp, benchmark and pass labs (HPA1).

In terms of comparison with the Susvara:

1. The Susvara has clearly more air around instruments while the R10P has substantially better slam, punch, and more bass energy. The R10P has a darker presentation, overall.
2. I would say the Susvara mids are relatively linear, while the R10P appears to have a bit more energy between 500-2K range, which gives it a more forward presentation.
3. The Susvara treble presentation is more polite. The R10P has a peak somewhere around 6-7K, to my ears, which didn't bother me, but one of my audiophile friends felt it. I personally thought it added a nice edge to drum hits.
4. Technically, the Susvara has more micro details and a wider sound stage, but the R10P has a pretty impressive SS presentation given it's a closed-back. This cup design is clearly paying off.

Overall, the reason why the R10P stands out to me is that it's more technically capable than other closed-backs in the market, in my opinion, but I am going by memory here.

The other reason it stands out is that Hifiman has really tried to give it a lot of "excursive power" so that works quite well, if you have a Susvara already, and want something less polite, when you listen to electronica, rock, etc. That has been my use case, at least.