[sampson_smith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif The one thing that they don't do as well as the Senns is space but then doubtful anything but a K1000 will compete on soundstage and headstage. The soundstage is large here but not the headstage, but again, out of an ipod it could be muffled, yet, I'm still in awe.

I always thought that headstage was synonymous with soundstage, but headstage was to be reserved for headphones (and the latter more with hi-fi speakers). Care to enlighten me, Zanth? I was sure that I had been using the terms correctly up until this point. Doh!

 

[lecky]

FWIW I believe that this post is the 'classic treatise' on that distinction:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f13/st...nership-40331/

 

[dlrkdnjs]

I have Melos SHA Gold and MAD Ear+ HD, and my he-5 is on its way from head-direct.
I just wonder if either of my amps can drive the headphone well.

 

[sampson_smith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lecky /img/forum/go_quote.gif FWIW I believe that this post is the 'classic treatise' on that distinction: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f13/st...nership-40331/

While I never...!!! Thanks for clearing that up for me, lecky. Much appreciated. But I am now slightly confused: if good soundstage is the virtual impression that there is significant space and placement between corresponding sounds within a recording, then doesn't good headstage smack of good restriction of those sounds to within a defined, smaller space within your head? As increased "headstaginess" now seems like a bad thing, and increased soundstage a good one, is it wrong that the term bad headstage now sounds good to me?

That said, I think that the following definitions from the Glossary sticky are ambiguous and too close for comfort:

Headstage - The perception of the Soundstage while listening to headphones.

Soundstage - The area between two speakers that appears to the listener to be occupied by sonic images. Like a real stage, a soundstage should have width, depth, and height.

We can safely assume that the headphone drivers are the speakers in question that create sound that occupies a space in between. In this case, the soundstage would always be limited to within "one's head". Not exactly what we are hoping for as good soundstage is supposed to provide much more than that, so I think this second entry needs to be re-defined.

 

[Zanth]

Think of it like this I guess:

With speakers the width and depth presented is what you hear is what you get. That is, if set up very well, and sitting in the sweet spot, the perception of being in a grand space or a teeny tiny space will be apparent.

With headphones it isn't quite exactly like that because there is the immediate presentation of sound (the headstage) where much if not all the action takes place. Those that describe a sound as up close, or on stage, vs. mid row or back row are describing the headstage. For most cheap phones, and often times with closed phones, the headstage can be very close to what one experiences with the soundstage as well.

The soundstage however is the absolute space the sound seems to occupy. A good example I use is describing two Grados: RS-1s with flats and GS-1000s. The RS-1's with flats offer a very intimate sound, where one may feel they are on stage with the performer, whereas listening with GS-1000's it sounds like one is perhaps mid-hall, where the sound is more open and all encompassing. Intimacy is lost but with advantages some would say in the presentation of size, lack of congestion etc.

That said, they both seem to exhibit a close soundstage, so if recorded in a church for instance, if a sound travels up, WAY up into the rafters, both seem to provide the necessary auditory cues to follow the sound up there and closing one's eyes, one should be able to imagine being in that building. Of course, one would be on stage listening to that note rise up, while the other would be mid-hall listening to it, but each provide the absolute spatial axis by which one is able to perceive the sound.

That is how I understand it anyway.

 

[Acix]

So, how they sound?

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, how they sound?

I posted my thoughts in a different thread, as below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, so after a couple weeks with these, here are my impressions: * World-class midrange purity, tone, and transparency - I have heard none better in this regard. Easily as good as the HD800 in this regard. * Outstanding lateral imaging, and even better image depth. Only the HD800 are better among all headphones I have heard. * Treble is clean and neutral, if perhaps just slightly sweet. But the sweetness does not come at the expense of extension - there is seemingly limitless extension. Slightly more forward treble than the DX1000; slightly less than the HD800. For many will be "just right". There does seem to be one very small peak somewhere, not sure where, that occasionally stands out a little - but it is pretty high up, and just means a little extra sparkle - doesn't yield any unnatural stridency. The treble also has a "delicacy" that is pretty unique IME - dynamic headphones just don't seem to have this. * Bass is impactful, and extremely well defined. Slightly more bass weight than the HD800, slightly less than the JVC DX1000. Bass definition is slightly less than DX1000, and on par with the HD800. Again, since some consider the HD800 slightly lean in the bass, and some consider the DX1000 to be too fat, the HE-5 will be "just right" for many. Plenty of bass for most - not enough for some, too much for others, but those people would be at the extremes. Mainly, the bass isn't present until called for, and doesn't impede at all on the mids. * Most noticeable trait may be an incredible transparency and complete freedom from grain, etch, or anything in the way of the music. The one main liability I have found, is that with some very complex music, there does seem to be the tendency for things to occasionally get a little congested. It's not a power issue - I've been using these with the Audio GD Phoenix, which has plenty of juice. This is just a very slight issue, but something I do occasionally hear. But only with music that is very very dense. I did try these with my Decware CSP-2, which did far better with them than I ever expected, given their 28 ohm impedance. It did yield a slightly more romantic sound than with the Phoenix. But it was a sound that was very hard not to like. It was actually very, very engaging. It's a combination I could be very, very happy with. Well that's it for now. HE-5's are here to stay, for me. They are the best open headphone I currently own. I can't wait to compare them to the Beyer T1 when it comes, but these are definitely a level above the DT880 and 990. Now, time to get a better cable...

 

[Acix]

Skylab, great impressions...the HD-800 have extreme resolution in the bass area. Did you compared them one to one with the 800s?

 

[Skylab]

No, I am going of my impressions of having had the HD800's for several months where I listened to basically nothing else. But I no longer have them.

 

[Acix]

Skylab, which one of the three have the biggest sound stage, are you consider the HE-5 to be bright or analytical?

BTW...what is the size of the driver, maybe some pics.

 

[Skylab]

The BIGGEST soundstage would be the HD800, but the HE-5 is very good here too (as are the DX1000) - all 3 image well, but the HD800 is the soundstaging king. The HE-5 is nowhere near bright or analytical - in fact as I mentioned it's a little sweet.

 

[momomo6789]

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2897/he5inside.jpg

 

[DannyBuoy]

Thank-you all for your time and fantastic impressions of equipment. It is a pleasure to read.
I was wondering what USB/DAC to use with the HE-5/EF5 combo?
I have EF2 with A700's and will be orderign HE-5/EF5 combo in late Novemeber when Fang says they will be back in stock, but I do not have anything of value from PC to RCA's of EF5 (as my EF2 is a USB Hybrid). Can you suggest an equally fitting USB/DAc (equal as in same price performance range). I hear the EF5/HE-5 combo will be under $1,000.
Thank-you all.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif The BIGGEST soundstage would be the HD800, but the HE-5 is very good here too (as are the DX1000) - all 3 image well, but the HD800 is the soundstaging king. The HE-5 is nowhere near bright or analytical - in fact as I mentioned it's a little sweet.

Maybe one day, you'll try your hps with the Phonitor, and the K-702 too.

I'll be happy to read this impression.

 

[AmanGeorge]

I'll do a K701/HE-5/LCD-2 comparison at the end of the month and get back to you (although not on a Phonitor). I think the soundstage on all 3 will be very large, although the K701 is likely less forward, which can make it sound larger. The HD800 soundstage is objectively massive though, bigger than the K701 to my ears for sure.