[Music Alchemist]

  I'm not sure that you do, but all of my arguments have been on some other post so let's just leave it at that on that point.
 
One beta tester can't screw it all simply because, if I'm not mistaken, every participant will get his/her own pair. I could be wrong on that though.
 
The thing is that a beta test is not used for people to buy stuff at a lower price, but for people to "test" and report back in order to improve the product. Hence there's no need to be "serious" about buying the stuff your reviewing.

 
It's a beta test whether or not there is money involved. Many companies only let paying customers do beta testing. It's a common practice.

 

[mgavin]

Ehhhhhhh

 

[iancraig10]

I don't agree that it's common practise. I've tested many products and not had to pay even postage, no matter what the cost was.

In any case, the company will have tested and used more reliable means than a collection of people on Headfi. Some of those people might be experts while others are .... Well let's say questionable. Do you guys really think that your subjective opinions will make a difference to the product?

This has kind of put me off if Im honest. I'm not comfortable with what they're doing although having replied to them, I do know why money is involved.

If this starts to become the norm on HF, I will be leaving since the 'flavour' of the forum is changing somewhat and I don't really like it too much. We all become the target for mass free 'advertising' for companies, who I'm sure mean well and all that, but I don't feel right about this so I declined.

I hope it works out for the beta testers, but if I were to buy one, the difference isn't worth worrying about really and I'd pay full price for a post beta. However, now, I'll have to think about buying any headphone from them after this tbh.

 

[potkettleblack]

Can those that have been given this headphone provide an update on the build quality please.

 

[Beagle]

No, they are not allowed to discuss....

 

[incursore61]

I don't agree that it's common practise. I've tested many products and not had to pay even postage, no matter what the cost was.

In any case, the company will have tested and used more reliable means than a collection of people on Headfi. Some of those people might be experts while others are .... Well let's say questionable. Do you guys really think that your subjective opinions will make a difference to the product?

This has kind of put me off if Im honest. I'm not comfortable with what they're doing although having replied to them, I do know why money is involved.

If this starts to become the norm on HF, I will be leaving since the 'flavour' of the forum is changing somewhat and I don't really like it too much. We all become the target for mass free 'advertising' for companies, who I'm sure mean well and all that, but I don't feel right about this so I declined.

I hope it works out for the beta testers, but if I were to buy one, the difference isn't worth worrying about really and I'd pay full price for a post beta. However, now, I'll have to think about buying any headphone from them after this tbh.

 
 
I also agree with iancraig10 !

I add that the opinion of many audiophiles Europeans could be important for the company hifiman always that intends to penetrate the European market where it has almost no competition in this ortodynamic tipology....
The tastes of dressing eat and also listen here are very different from us Europeans, a beta test should take account of a world community.
I am perfectly okay and ready to pay a deposit of $ 3,000 but do not understand why I should pay 500 taxes and customs that I can never recover if the headset I did not like and if I decided to return it.
this is just my thought of course

 

[customcoco]

   
It's a beta test whether or not there is money involved. Many companies only let paying customers do beta testing. It's a common practice.

My very last comment on the subject :
 
Many companies only trust regular paying customers for their beta tests, but I have yet to hear a company asking unknown testers to pay for the test.

 

[Takeanidea]

I think I have learnt a valuable lesson from all this ; don't go on to sponsor threads . This whole "pick me pick me!" was bad enough but once the golden ticket winners started getting announced and realised what they had been roped into.......I'm out of here , I want to still feel good about giving these a listen when they are in London in August without any more bad feelings. 
Despite everything, I'm still prepared to be excited about the launch of something that blows Jude off his chair, and if it's as good as they say.......

 

[iancraig10]

I often have things sent to me for subjective views and opinions. The question is why do companies do that? The answer is, first of all, they trust what I might say openly in public and secondly, it's a free advert for them on my forum and other places too.

I'm in the UK and as said, paying a deposit and import tax for a headphone I don't want is asking too much. I'll get the final version. I honestly can't see what they will gain from random peoples' comments on here, except sales on items that have gone out a bit cheaper than they will with the final version. I get little raised eyebrows from some of the things that people write on here about equipment but this time, I lost them over the top of my head.

Do people honestly believe that their opinions are going to have any effect on a professional company who have already designed a product and tested it in any case? I don't. I think it's actually a bit naive to think so as well.

In any case, it's not a con, and everyone who 'applied' will get their headphone and good luck to them.

If this kind of thing becomes common on here, I will leave HF. I've been here since 2005 and this is a change in outlook that I'm slightly uncomfortable with. Canjam might have been more appropriate.

 

[jelt2359]

A quick summary, if I may:

Some think that beta testers should never have to pay.

Others think that asking for collateral before sending something to random people on the Internet is perfectly valid.

Finally a group of people worry about tax.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Misterrogers]

A few points to add...
 
* Some are disillusioned with Head-fi, may need to leave.
* Same will likely never buy Hifiman again - at least until the HE-1000's out and sounds awesome.
 

 

[incursore61]

next month I will be as always the fair of hi end more important than Europe, hi fi man is present among the exhibitors.
  would be a good opportunity to hear also briefly HE1000 ..... does anyone know if you can '?
 
http://www.highendsociety.de/index.php/en_high_end_moc.html

 

[jaaron53]

I'm interested, although I don't have the credentials that many people here do haha. Might as well try anyway

 

[money4me247]

I often have things sent to me for subjective views and opinions. The question is why do companies do that? The answer is, first of all, they trust what I might say openly in public and secondly, it's a free advert for them on my forum and other places too.

Do people honestly believe that their opinions are going to have any effect on a professional company who have already designed a product and tested it in any case? I don't. I think it's actually a bit naive to think so as well.

If this kind of thing becomes common on here, I will leave HF. I've been here since 2005 and this is a change in outlook that I'm slightly uncomfortable with. Canjam might have been more appropriate.

Companies sending you free products for "your opinion" are essentially buying a positive review. If you didn't buy the item yourself, it is easy to write glowing things about it without considering its cost and performance:value ratio. A common practice in this hobby is for companies to send free review samples to "reviewers" who basically just turn around and write an advertisement on the product. That practice is much worse imo.

At least with this beta test system, people will be more realistic and critical with their sonic impressions and performance:value as they had to pull out wallets first. I think it also prevents overhyping the product. Yea, Hifiman cld have sent free review units to established professional reviewers or the trusted inner circle of head-fiers and gotten stellar sonic reviews back without a problem as it is easy to find 'reviewers' that never say anything negative abt the product they review. It is also very easy to write positively if you didn't have to pay for the product. Hifiman is opening up their product for honest and even critical sonic feedback that takes into account the pricing of the unit.

I met Dr. Fang in New York and he is quite open to all suggestions and feedback on his product. He even invited head-fiers out to dinner to continue discussing thoughts and feedback. Dr. Fang is definitely geniunely open to feedback from people in the head-fi community. He even asked my brother what he thought abt it and my brother has no experience with anything headphone related outside of bose. I did get the sense that Dr. Fang really values all different kinds of impressions/perspectives. Of course, he gets the final call on what refinements he will make, but at least he actually cares abt hearing honest feedback, regardless if it's positive or negative.

Considering the cost of these headphones, I don't think a security deposit is unreasonable.

 

[negura]

 

 
It's exactly the other way around imo. If one has a vested interest, they would tend to be more biased towards their own interest. A deposit and customs charge + VAT commitment works towards exactly that arguable bias.