[zadillo]

Then say that, and not call "malarkey" when someone says you're going to be missing out on sound quality and then say MAYBE it's a 2% difference when you have no idea at all.

I find it disingenuous to tell people such things and you don't even have ground to stand on with the subject. Atom Amp works just like Hel 2 does but you're gimping a $500 pair of headphones. If you're unwilling to spend the extra money to power them properly then get yourself a pair of headphones that are easier to drive its simple as that. Then you don't have to spend the extra money on the amp to power it and you're not throwing away $500 on headphones that you're not even utilizing properly.

Sundara are cheaper, M1060c is cheaper, Harmonicdyne Zeus are cheaper. Buy one of those instead

As someone new to this hobby I just have no idea what to think now. I’ve now received both guidance that the Atom stack is just fine and other guidance that using it will gimp the performance of the XS.

If this is true, it sounds like my choice is either to spend more on a much more expensive amp or to return the XS and stick with something easier to drive

I wish I had an easier way to tell what it means that the performance I’m hearing is gimped. If I’m getting 90-95% of the sound quality with the Atom stack I’m probably fine with that sacrifice. But if I’m losing like 30-40% of the quality it makes me think the cost of the XS plus a $400 investment in a better DAC/AMP like the Jot 2 you mentioned is probably more than I’m willing to spend

If the Atom stack means I’m my utilizing the XS properly, I don’t understand why people would say it’s fine

 

[Xerosnake90]

As someone new to this hobby I just have no idea what to think now. I’ve now received both guidance that the Atom stack is just fine and other guidance that using it will gimp the performance of the XS.

If this is true, it sounds like my choice is either to spend more on a much more expensive amp or to return the XS and stick with something easier to drive

I wish I had an easier way to tell what it means that the performance I’m hearing is gimped. If I’m getting 90-95% of the sound quality with the Atom stack I’m probably fine with that sacrifice. But if I’m losing like 30-40% of the quality it makes me think the cost of the XS plus a $400 investment in a better DAC/AMP like the Jot 2 you mentioned is probably more than I’m willing to spend

If the Atom stack means I’m my utilizing the XS properly, I don’t understand why people would say it’s fine

I find the people that tell you the Atom stack is fine haven't heard anything else. I already told you a Magni/Modi stack is much more capable and it's only $200. Hell, get the Magni ($100) and pair it with your DAC. That said if you're super adamant on having the XS then get them and try them with your current stack and if you're happy then enjoy. If not, make a change.

I went through 2 amps and 5 headphones before I found something that worked for me. It's a process sometimes

 

[cycloverid]

As someone new to this hobby I just have no idea what to think now. I’ve now received both guidance that the Atom stack is just fine and other guidance that using it will gimp the performance of the XS.

If this is true, it sounds like my choice is either to spend more on a much more expensive amp or to return the XS and stick with something easier to drive

I wish I had an easier way to tell what it means that the performance I’m hearing is gimped. If I’m getting 90-95% of the sound quality with the Atom stack I’m probably fine with that sacrifice. But if I’m losing like 30-40% of the quality it makes me think the cost of the XS plus a $400 investment in a better DAC/AMP like the Jot 2 you mentioned is probably more than I’m willing to spend

If the Atom stack means I’m my utilizing the XS properly, I don’t understand why people would say it’s fine

There is an 'objectivist' and 'subjectivist' divide in audio. The objectivist stance is that amp/dacs are simple devices and only need to be bought within a certain calculated requirement. Subjectivists generally think (some of these, not usually all) that amp/dacs make large changes in sound quality, that headphones 'scale' a lot with different devices, that cables make big or atleast noticeable changes in the performance of their devices, etc.

I'm roughly 90% an objectivist, and this makes many of these ideas somewhat or completely silly. It's not that the subjectivist is necessarily 'wrong', but that their experience might not be having the effect they think it does. Perhaps the amp is coloring the sound, perhaps it's placebo, maybe they aren't properly level matching, etc. I also think that if you 1.) Use the Atom stack like me and 2.) EQ to your heart's content, then you can achieve pretty much anything these guys do with their sound that is desirable.

But yeah, if you're still curious, you could just buy a more expensive amp or dac and see if that changes anything for you. Make sure you get something with a return policy and return it if you don't think it's worth the money. Ultimately, until we have conclusive measurements, there is no absolute certainty here - I think some of my objectivist friends in here don't like it when I say these things haha.

 

[zadillo]

I find the people that tell you the Atom stack is fine haven't heard anything else. I already told you a Magni/Modi stack is much more capable and it's only $200. That said if you're super adamant on having the XS then get them and try them with your current stack and if you're happy then enjoy. If not, make a change.

I have the XS and I have the Atom stack. It sounds fine to me but it’s also better than anything I’ve had previously so I’m taking your word that it’s actually inadequate. Unless I get a better stack I don’t have any basis to know what it could find like.

So although it sounds good to me, I’m more inclined to return the XS and get something else that doesn’t need something higher end than I have to drive it.

As you said, I’m getting a gimped performance right now which makes me assume im basically wasting $500 unless I want to spend more to get a proper amp to power it

 

[Xerosnake90]

I have the XS and I have the Atom stack. It sounds fine to me but it’s also better than anything I’ve had previously so I’m taking your word that it’s actually inadequate. Unless I get a better stack I don’t have any basis to know what it could find like.

So although it sounds good to me, I’m more inclined to return the XS and get something else that doesn’t need something higher end than I have to drive it.

As you said, I’m getting a gimped performance right now which makes me assume im basically wasting $500 unless I want to spend more to get a proper amp to power it

Grab a Magni from schiit. It's $100 and will give you 2.8w at 16 Ohms compared to the 1.1 you're getting now. Don't see a difference? Return it, you have 14 days to send it back and you're set to go.

You get your money back and you have everything you need

 

[cycloverid]

Grab a Magni from schiit. It's $100 and will give you 2.8w at 16 Ohms compared to the 1.1 you're getting now. Don't see a difference? Return it, you have 14 days to send it back and you're set to go.

You get your money back and you have everything you need

It's 1.1W into 32ohms with the Atom amp. Not sure what this equals with 16 ohms (can't find any tests on this), but it'd be more. And these two have been tested against eachother countless times, generally resulting in 'they sound the same' conclusions. So @zadillo, take that with a grain of salt I'd say.

 

[zadillo]

There is an 'objectivist' and 'subjectivist' divide in audio. The objectivist stance is that amp/dacs are simple devices and only need to be bought within a certain calculated requirement. Subjectivists generally think (some of these, not usually all) that amp/dacs make large changes in sound quality, that headphones 'scale' a lot with different devices, that cables make big or atleast noticeable changes in the performance of their devices, etc.

I'm roughly 90% an objectivist, and this makes many of these ideas somewhat silly. It's not that the subjectivist is necessarily 'wrong', but that their experience might not be having the effect they think it does. Perhaps the amp is coloring the sound, perhaps it's placebo, etc. I also think that if you 1.) Use the Atom stack like me and 2.) EQ to your heart's content, then you can achieve pretty much anything these guys do with their sound that is desirable.

But yeah, if you're still curious, you could just buy a more expensive amp or dac and see if that changes anything for you. Make sure you get something with a return policy and return it if you don't think it's worth the money. Ultimately, until we have conclusive measurements, there is no absolute certainty here - I think some of my objectivist friends in here don't like it when I say these things haha.

Yeah, the difficulty right now is that my XS return period ends on February 12th so I don’t really have much time to get another amp (the Schiit stuff like the Joy 2 has a 6-8 week waiting period).

So I’m basically stuck now in a position where I think it sounds good to me but I also don’t like the idea of having $500 headphones if I’m not actually utilizing them to what they’re capable of, and if it does in fact mean something more than the $140 I spent on my Atom stack, I wonder if I’m not better off with the Ananda which everyone says is easier to drive even though it’s more expensive than the XS. Or drop down to the Sundara or just back out of having expensive headphones at all until I’m more experienced with it

 

[cycloverid]

Yeah, the difficulty right now is that my XS return period ends on February 12th so I don’t really have much time to get another amp (the Schiit stuff like the Joy 2 has a 6-8 week waiting period).

So I’m basically stuck now in a position where I think it sounds good to me but I also don’t like the idea of having $500 headphones if I’m not actually utilizing them to what they’re capable of, and if it does in fact mean something more than the $140 I spent on my Atom stack, I wonder if I’m not better off with the Ananda which everyone says is easier to drive even though it’s more expensive than the XS. Or drop down to the Sundara or just back out of having expensive headphones at all until I’m more experienced with it

The Sundara is about the same difficulty to drive as the XS, so don't worry about that. I used the Atom stack with the Sundara with no issues. I find the XS to be a solid upgrade over the Sundara, so is it worth $500? Yep! Both are good value though.

 

[millzy]

Just my 2c reading all these bass comments.

With EQ the XS is an absoluet Bass monster.
Listening to Progressive Trance right now and the Punch/Slam and especially Sub is absoluetly breathtaking.

If you have the XS and disagree, I'd put it down to your amp lacking.

Every user who's tested the XS with a decent amp has head the same thing, this needs to be accepted and we move on.
I feel like we're going around in circles in convincing users that a lower powered amp probably won't do the job well, try it for sure but be prepared to upgrade if your're looking for the quality we're talking about.
Don't review them based on your lacking amp as it muddies the waters for everyone else.

As stated a bunch, my source is the SP200/E30

 

[zadillo]

Grab a Magni from schiit. It's $100 and will give you 2.8w at 16 Ohms compared to the 1.1 you're getting now. Don't see a difference? Return it, you have 14 days to send it back and you're set to go.

You get your money back and you have everything you need

The Sundara is about the same difficulty to drive as the XS, so don't worry about that. I used the Atom stack with the Sundara with no issues. I find the XS to be a solid upgrade over the Sundara, so is it worth $500? Yep! Both are good value though.

Thanks - this is where I end up confused. It’s kind of making me just feel like I don’t have the knowledge or experience yet with this hobby since I can’t really parse or judge the conflicting advice (“you’ll be fine” versus “you’re gimping the performance “)

 

[millzy]

I love adding a lot of bass to planars, and am pretty much a basshead by most audiophile standards. For me though, I target my 10db a little more towards the sub bass so not too much is being added to the upper bass. But yeah, I'm adding 10db as well heh... I'll also add this sounds a bit much on certain tracks, but fun nonetheless.

Would absoluetly love to try some of your EQ's, I think we have similar tastes.

Do you have a single go to profile or switch between a few?

 

[cycloverid]

Would absoluetly love to try some of your EQ's, I think we have similar tastes.

Do you have a single go to profile or switch between a few?

I'm just using one, and I'm just modifying it as I go here. Until Oratory has an official one, I'll just be toying with it. My preference is roughly 2018 Harman with raised bass/sub bass, so if you like a bit more treble, go for it!

 

[millzy]

I'm just using one, and I'm just modifying it as I go here. Until Oratory has an official one, I'll just be toying with it.

Legend! Will give it a go.

Thanks mate.

 

[Xerosnake90]

Thanks - this is where I end up confused. It’s kind of making me just feel like I don’t have the knowledge or experience yet with this hobby since I can’t really parse or judge the conflicting advice (“you’ll be fine” versus “you’re gimping the performance “)

That's because you haven't experienced it yet for yourself and really that's the only way. Enjoy what you have and when you're able and curious get something new

 

[pk4425]

Then say that, and not call "malarkey" when someone says you're going to be missing out on sound quality and then say MAYBE it's a 2% difference when you have no idea at all.

I find it disingenuous to tell people such things and you don't even have ground to stand on with the subject. Atom Amp works just like Hel 2 does but you're gimping a $500 pair of headphones. If you're unwilling to spend the extra money to power them properly then get yourself a pair of headphones that are easier to drive its simple as that. Then you don't have to spend the extra money on the amp to power it and you're not throwing away $500 on headphones that you're not even utilizing properly.

Sundara are cheaper, M1060c is cheaper, Harmonicdyne Zeus are cheaper. Buy one of those instead

OK, Buddha.

I happen to enjoy the XS right now with the Atom+ stack. Sorry that rig doesn't measure to your standards and that my knowledge and experience are far inferior. Maybe I'll reach your plane of enlightenment and reach an acceptable level of enjoyment for you when I upgrade my DAC-amp later this year.

The whole thing just cracks me up. If people want to worry about source gear, then agonize about source gear. I'm happy with my current setup and enjoy the music and sound quality that -- while I know could be better with more expense -- is a nice upgrade for me. I'm guessing other audiophiles at earlier points of their journey and with lower budgets like me would feel the same. Maybe not.

Thanks.