[sfoclt]

  Do you think we don't have the right to make more expensive products? 

 
The insecurity is rich at least.

 

[conquerator2]

I think it's fair to say most of us liked HiFiMAN for releasing affordable good sounding products. Back then, the HE6 at 1299$ [originally 999$ I think] was the priciest, though lots of people ended up preferring the HE500 for its less demanding power requirements and pleasant sound, which was a 'measly' 699$. There were also the HE5LE. Later we got the RE400, HE400i, HE560 and even the HE400S... Those are all still great value products.
But they were not perfect. The finish was inconsistent, the sound had some variations from headphone to headphone. The earpads varied in finish... Unfortunately, all those imperfections carried over to the HE1000 [V1 at least] and Hifiman failed to step their QC game up.
 
Maybe the things are better now. The longer each model has been in production the more consistent it got. My own experience supports this. Unfortunately, that's just no good for the early buyer and if a company establishes a reputation for rushing shoddily made products out the door, well... This is a testament to the fact that each product could use a couple more testing samples to get everything just right. And when a later model 400i and 400S feels more polished and solid than an earlier HE560 and HE1000 then that's just plain awful. One can't transition to a high priced product model until teething problems are ironed out, which shouldn't have been there in the first place [though were a little less hard to swallow considering the price/performance ratio]...
 
I've been a loyal customer since late 2012 until late last year., and I've owned or reviewed most of their headphones. I've continued to give them the benefit of the doubt but until they step their game up, I can no longer continue to support them. I will consider them again once they do I guess. If their most affordable headphone isn't 2 grands. That is all. Best of luck to Hifiman, hope you guys manage to do things right.

 

[FastAndClean]

  RE400, HE560 and HE400i/s are solid in our product line. We does not discontinue them after we have more expensive line. So Do you think we don't have the right to make more expensive products? 

You have the right to do whatever you want, but i thing 6000 dollars are ridiculous, especially in comparison to your older and still very well regarded flagship HE6

 

[swspiers]

Wow. Interesting thread.

I'm still a fan of HFM, but this is fascinating.

Sub'd!!!

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

"- Be memorable, this isn't about getting everyone to like you, is about getting some people who love you"
 
Jason Stoddard just nailed it.

 

[Hansotek]

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

Problem is not about the price, is about perceived value according to that price point.

 

[lojay]

Making great sounding headphones at an "affordable" price is financial suicide?!?:confused_face_2:


No,sorry,making great sounding headphones at a price point that alienates a vast majority of your customer base is financial suicide.

I think Google translate didn't translate this properly. Fang is saying that it's commercial suicide to sell products at $1000 when each headphone brand is competing to price their TOTL headphones at higher and higher prices. To be honest his Chinese text is more level headed and fair to a native reader than his English responses.

Fang is no doubt proud of his products, and to some extent justifiably, but I hope he can see the reason why his once loyal customers are upset. Imagine someone buying a V1 believing he bought the best Hifiman headphone. In a few months time, the best headphone is the V2. In a few more months, it is the Edition 6. When will this end? Most people only buy one or at most a few pairs of TOTL headphones. It's not right to expect customers to keep up with the pace of manufacturers in coming up with increasingly expensive TOTL products that will become obsolete or dethroned in a couple of months.

While I appreciate that Fang wishes to make a statement with his best products, I would much prefer it (and he would be treated more seriously here and in that "other" forum) if new TOTL products are rolled out (and former flagships are rendered obsolete) at a slower pace.

 

[GrouchoMarx1933]

RE400, HE560 and HE400i/s are solid in our product line. We does not discontinue them after we have more expensive line. So Do you think we don't have the right to make more expensive products? 

Wow, you really think that people are angry simply because your new products cost more? Talk about missing the point. There are dozens of posts in this thread alone from people unhappy about the build quality and durability of your (no longer) flagship headphones. There are dozens of posts from people who are upset at the plummeting value of your high end headphones, a situation you made worse by releasing them essentially unfinished and then releasing a new version of them within months of release of the original. People don't like to be made into unwitting beta testers.

If you want to play in the big leagues and produce headphones that cost many thousands of US dollars, you need to be top notch in every area: Sound, looks, durability, customer satisfaction. No one likes to be taken for granted and that's exactly what you've done with your recent expensive headphone releases. You said "trust us, these headphones are worth these prices", then you abused the trust of the people who listened.

This has nothing to do with the 560 or 400i or any of the reasonably priced headphones you produce. This has everything to do with how you've treated the customers who put their faith in you enough to spend thousands of dollars on a single product, only to get burned by your lack of consideration for them and price gouging. And now you're asking people to pay $6k for new headphones. Why would anyone want to do business with you again?

Stop with the persecution complex. This is entirely due to your own recent actions as a company. Get off your high horse, apologize and make things right with your current customers, stop the price gouging, and you'll find a very different response to your new releases.

The power to fix all of this is entirely in your hands.

 

[Monsterzero]

I think Google translate didn't translate this properly. Fang is saying that it's commercial suicide to sell products at $1000 when each headphone brand is competing to price their TOTL headphones at higher and higher prices. To be honest his Chinese text is more level headed and fair to a native reader than his English responses.

Fang is no doubt proud of his products, and to some extent justifiably, but I hope he can see the reason why his once loyal customers are upset. Imagine someone buying a V1 believing he bought the best Hifiman headphone. In a few months time, the best headphone is the V2. In a few more months, it is the Edition 6. When will this end? Most people only buy one or at most a few pairs of TOTL headphones. The idea that it's fine to force customers to keep up with the pace of manufacturers in coming up with increasingly expensive TOTL products that will become obsolete or dethroned in a couple of months, is a ridiculous one.

Speaking for myself, I have bought almost all of the TOTL headphones out there, but I am now sick of keeping up with the pace. All this talk about technological advancement is bullocks; to my ears and on my setup, the only real improvement in headphone technology I've heard in recent years is the Focal Utopia, but even that doesn't beat my Sennheiser HE90 in terms of speed, transparency and naturalness (in fact I prefer the old Orpheus to the HE1).

While I appreciate that Fang wishes to make a statement with his best products, I would much prefer it (and he would be treated more seriously here and in that "other" forum) if he takes his time to focus on R&D and roll out new TOTL products every 10 years, relying on mid ranged high value products for sales and profits. What has happened with the Edition 6 is, frankly, a farce.

Fang should be proud of his products.i love them too,but I can no longer afford to support them.

I own three pairs of AKG K240 sextetts,which were made from the mid 70s to 1979...after 42 years all three are still going strong and sound fabulous.Now,go back and read that again.....

As a co-TOTL headphone in their time,their price point adjusted by inflation, would be a little over 1300.00 if they were sold today.

AKG admitted that they were discontinued because of how expensive they were to make,so perhaps a 2000.00 price point wouldve been more realistic.

I dont think anyone would be complaining if ED 6 were advertised as a 1500-2500.00 pair of headphones....nobody would be expecting them to last 42 years and counting,but that is symptomatic of todays disposable society.

IMHO the pricing is nothing more than a pissing contest with other headphone makers as to who can claim to make the priciest headphones....and frankly im disgusted with that trend in this hobby!

 

[ubs28]

I don't understand the hate really. A company has the right to price their product in any way they want. If you don't think it's worth the price, then don't buy it. (Which is why I haven't bought a single Hifiman headphone still.)

 

[qawsedrf]

I don't understand the hate really. A company has the right to price their product in any way they want. If you don't think it's worth the price, then don't buy it. (Which is why I haven't bought a single Hifiman headphone still.)

Because HFM has earned enough love from the HeadFi community to face spite if they no longer run true to what they were doing best in.

 

[Clemmaster]

I don't understand the hate really. A company has the right to price their product in any way they want. If you don't think it's worth the price, then don't buy it. (Which is why I haven't bought a single Hifiman headphone still.)

 
Also, people need to be made aware of the fact this the same headphone will potentially have a v2 revision 6 months later, with a 40% price drop.
 
Nobody wants the fiasco HEK and EdX to happen again. Certainly not on a $6k headphone that just seem like a mere improved HE-6.

 

[marhol]

First of all I appreciate  Mr. Fang Bian activity on this thread. I do not consider it to be a sign of weakness in any kind, quite the opposite. Its never easy to face strong criticism or to answer highly unpleasant questions. Let me say there are some leaders in this world who don´t have the same courage...
Nevertheless I wish Mr. Fang Bian would take something positive from this criticism - for himself, for the sake of his company and for the sake of this headphone hobby which brought us all here.
 
My points:
 
1/ Hifiman company got its reputation as well as many customers/fans from making headphones with outstanding price/performance ratio.  HE-400 became  the first affordable planar and HE-500, HE-6 were regarded among the very best headphones available, regardless of the price. Not Ultrasone but Hifiman was bought by audiophiles over the world. And how many HE-400,  HE-500, HE-6 or HE-400i have you sold ? How much from the profit was essential for you and for the future research/ technological advancements ?  Have these investments been justified ? Why not to return back to the roots and start selling headphones based on great price/peformance ratio once again ? Why so much rush in producing new flagships ?  Imagine there wouldn´t be HE-1000 v1 in 2015 available, only one over elaborated, outstanding HE-1000, the new flagship with already matured build, with the reduced weight and even enhanced sound quality of  that v2 available in one package  in 2016.  And you would priced them around 1500-1700 USD. Can´t imagine how much profit you would make from it... And you could steadily improve your next projects like ShangriLa or Edition 6 or whatever... Let Abyss, Audeze, Final Audio, Focal, Ultrasone  etc. have their pricing, why should you care ? And especially then, when you care about advancing planar or other technology (while still making tremendous profit) ?
 
 
2/ People have full right to express their criticism. When headphones are priced above 2000 USD, then not only sound quality and comfort are issues but also build quality, QC, design, fit and finish are of major importance. Everything matters. Its a high end game in every sense of the word. 
 
 
Last note:
 
Mr. Fang I wish you good luck and clever ideas in advancing planar technology, as well as good health, freedom and wisdom for you and your company in 2017. Please remember what brought your company fame and success.
 
 
Martin from Slovakia, owner of HE-400i

 

[paradoxper]

 HiFiMAN
2005-2017
  R.I.P.