[Aiyah]

 

Dr Fang,
 
Can I be honest with you, without any context you're coming off very petty. I have no clue what is going on  with Jeff, Marv, or this mystery forum, but you should probably explain it if you want people to take your side.

 

[grizzlybeast]

What I am DYING to see is all of the review sites that get all of the UBER expensive gear talk about the ED6 like its the best thing since ketchup. Which one of the others besides Innerfidelity (who has expressed their distaste for the rise of prices) can admit that the same costing materials (ballpark) and a slight twist of technology doesn't make sense for  such a price.
 
I would hope Edit: lost hope... I wish Headphone Guru, Steve Guttenburg, Headfonia, and others respect the hobby enough to provide consumers with good checks and balances. Not that I trust those review sites or any site whole heartedly to begin with but, If they can't at least admit this then they should avoid reviewing it altogether. 

 

[Ancipital]

  Has this been mentioned before?  When are Edition 6 going to be available for purchase?  Can we pre-order?  Is there a limit on how many we can buy (I know apple doesnt let a single customer buy more than like 3 iphones on opening day)?

 
I do hope there won't be limits, as those of us in the know who move fast will have a great money-making opportunity! Such famous headphones are sure to appreciate in value, probably almost overnight. They're criminally underpriced, and with the manufacturer's famous build quality, durability, stylish design and commitment to customer service, they're bound to become a sought-after classic, just like the HE-6.

 

[Shure or bust]

I do hope there won't be limits, as those of us in the know who move fast will have a great money-making opportunity! Such famous headphones are sure to appreciate in value, probably almost overnight. They're criminally underpriced, and with the manufacturer's famous build quality, durability, stylish design and commitment to customer service, they're bound to become a sought-after classic, just like the HE-6.

You lost me. The last company or headphone I think of is Hifiman when it comes to quality. Classic and appreciation is far from the truth.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

Obvious troll is obvious.
 
Anyway, back on track about this pair of headphones, and I have some questions @Nankai / Fang :

1. HE1000 are single-sided magnets, as well as Abyss, you're back to double sided magnets on Edition 6, with some fazor-like technology to reduce sound diffraction and improve wavefront. In the end, which kind of technology you feel is better, and why ?
2. You're regularly mentioning nano / sub-micron diaphragm :
   1. considering the conductive trace in ortho, is this that important to work only on diaphragm ?
   2. Stax and Sennheiser went away from this ever thinner diaphragm thing for estat (Lambda Signature in 1987 was the thinnest with 1.0 µm, now 1.35 / 1.5, Orpheus 2 shows a "fat" 2.4 µm), what is your assumptions on why a thinner diaphragm is still worth investigating (material improvement ? Industrial processes ?)
3. There are a lot of talk about your pricing, but as you like to show beta / in progress products (see HE1000 and Shangri-La iterations before commercial releasing), why don't you be more discreet about pricing ? I feel this is the best way to set pricetag, in between feedbacks, the costs you're planning to have and the profit you are targeting. Maybe it'll tell you the market is not receptive to some kind of products / sound, and it'll greatly address some reputations issues that are a bit rudely listed there.

 
Thanks for your inputs

 
Ali

 

[ptolemy2k6]

Wow, what a discussion.. 
 
Although I do think that attaching Fang is not going to get you anywhere, I do think that perhaps Fang is taking the bait by being defensive. Perhaps there is something lost in cultural nuances.
 
My view on these things simple (having owned, several audeze and hifiman, among others). In the end, I do not care what the product is made of. Whether it has exotic food, lambskin leather, berilium sides or diamond plated connectors, to me 2 things matter: sound and comfort. To me, the rest don't matter. Now, do I mind that company's use high end materials? of course not, but I also feel like if he-1000 v2 can be made from reliable materials for $1500, then they can offer several upgrade/custom options for more (carbon fiber, exotic woods, etc). If base costs $1500 and upgrades can get it to $5000? what does it matter...
 
I do appreciate how lovely he-1000 looks, but when it's on my head, what do I care how it looks? When the last time you got a compliment on how headphones look on your head?
 
I also learned one other thing: vote with your wallet. If no one is willing to pay $6000, then price will drop. What's most impressive is that many feel that utopia is worth $4k. I just would love to hear it to compare..

 

[xxx1313]

To me, it is also not important, what the product is made off. But together with sound and comfort, DURABILITY is very important to me. I will not buy any headphones when I can expect that the driver will die several times in a few years (Audeze). But durability is also needed with other parts of the headphone. Half a year of normal daily use should not wear out other parts of a headphone or severely degrade it optically. To name one example: to take suede leather for headband strips is a very bad idea!
 
Take a look at high end cars, for example as an analogy. A high end BMW or Mercedes will be very fast, fun to drive, look very nice, will not die on you on the streets several times and will not be rusty after only few years of use. Their price is high, but for a reason. So price/performance is at least ok. Moreover, BMW and Mercedes do not need to release a new version of their cars every 6 months or so! If they did, they would go out of business, because nobody would by their products any more.
 
Users of high end headphones only expect the same, no more, no less: Very good sound (VERY important, I agree), comfort, nice look, durability (both technical and optical). Prices can be elevated, but you need to get what you pay for. And there should be no need to release a V2 or a "Flow" version only a few months after the release of the original product.
 
Dr. Fang Bian is certainly a very bright and intelligent person, and his company Hifiman offers technically very advanced products (I love my HEK V1 soundwise). So I expect him to understand also the importance of durability and design and to take this into account in the development of all future products.

 

[rthomas]

Just for a second imagine the following situation.
 
Jan 2017: Mercedes Benz released the new S Class for $100,000.
 
July 2017: Mercedes Benz releases the new improved S Class V2 for $70,000.
 
The auto world would laugh them off the face of the earth. 
 
Their customers would burn them alive on social media.
 
It's only in our sponsor protected, carefully curated world of high end audio that these kinds of practices are possible.
 
In any other super competitive domain the company is done for.
 
I wonder where all the 'thought leaders' are on this issue when the community needs them to speak up.......
 
I'm not holding my breath.

 

[wink]

  Just for a second imagine the following situation.
 
Jan 2017: Mercedes Benz released the new S Class for $100,000.
 
July 2017: Mercedes Benz releases the new improved S Class V2 for $300,000.
 
(snip)

FTFY

 

[ufospls2]

Fang will always find a way to maximise profit margins and screw over his customers. He is a master at lowering production costs for his products/company, and ends up screwing the consumer over with a sub par product at inflated prices. These products sold at inflated prices will usually end up for sale at up to 30-40ish% cheaper in the long run as they are so cheap to produce initially. And Hifiman STILL make a big profit at the end of the day as the products are so cheaply made in the first place. 
 
Hey Fang, if you are reading this, I used to be a customer of yours. I gave you the benefit of the doubt even though people warned me I would get burned. I paid the full, original retail price for your HE1000's, hoping that over $4000CAD would get me a great pair of headphones, that were well built and would last a lifetime. After going through three replacements due to bad build quality, I gave up, and sold them at a considerable loss. Thankfully I sold them before the V2's came out and the used value plummeted even more. Get the headphones right the first time, before you release them to the public. With the Edition 6, how about using real wood (like Audeze) instead of cost saving veneer under the guise of saving weight? How about building them well (like Abyss.) How about coming up with an original design instead of recycling cheap parts from your other headphones, slapping them together and charging 6 grand? 
 
Your headphones sound pretty good, so back that up with proper build quality, premium parts, and exemplary customer service, and maybe, just maybe, people will understand the $6000USD price tag of the Edition 6. Until then, you are making a mockery your customers, and you are laughing all the way to the bank whilst doing it. Consider me an "X" customer. 

 

[bfreedma]

The only thing the HFM representatives posting in this thread have convinced me of is that I will not be buying any of their products in the future.
 
Who would want to purchase from a company that antagonizes it's existing and potential customer base for simply asking questions about their new "TOTL" headphone?

 

[Beagle]

  I'm not responding further.  And I very much doubt your responses here so far are going to do you any favors whatsoever.

 
I agree. Defensive mode or inability to accept criticism usually indicates lack of confidence or something to hide.

 

[Nankai]

  Well, Hifiman WAS affordable company, with your re 400 for example or HE500 good alternative to Audeze, the name of your company was built on affordable and good sounding headphones, now all of that is thrown to the garbage with your new pricing

RE400, HE560 and HE400i/s are solid in our product line. We does not discontinue them after we have more expensive line. So Do you think we don't have the right to make more expensive products? 

 

[DigMe]

  In this thread, there are more Chinese/American Chinese. They are calling me Da Bian (poopoo in Chinese). An american consultant won't work in this situation. That is why I am posting in Chinese.  

 
I was actually referring to the part about asking $6000 for a headphone, arguing with consumers about it and just all the complaints about HFM customer service in general. Those are the parts that seem to be out of touch. You are not truly informed about American consumer expectations and how to deal with them, thus the need for the consultant. Not necessarily just a language barrier. Just maintaining popularity on a forum through paid advertising can only take you so far. 

 

[Khragon]

  There is a forum with a lot of American Chinese members. They like some old hifiman headphones, esp. HE6. They modify this $1299 MSRP headphones and get great sounding. They want hifiman to be perfect and affordable so they try to push me to that direction, including some detail plan like push HIFIMAN to some big factories (Foxxxxx) to do OEM so that they believe in that way hifiman will get better products overall. However, they have very limited info about what we are doing. I actually do have several employee from Foxlink so that I can easily use Foxlink (Apple and beats manufacturer) to make our products. However, that never works through because foxlink is a super huge company, and they do have their limit. After hifiman release HE1000 at $3000, I feel that they think I betrayed them in products. This is the story from my side. 

 
So, would you say their modified HE6 is better than ED6?  From the discussion sounds like HE6 mod is better than HE1000.