[nvfan]

  According current technology, Beryllium foil cannot reach nano thickness level. CVD is a very common technology. There are a lot of toys or electronics surface shining, which benefit from CVD coating. Its coating thickness is normally micro level. Hifiman have already use nano meter thickness diaphragm, and we don't have any plan to come back to micro. 

 
Have you sampled diamond drivers from Bowers & Wilkens or SEAs or Accuton and tested to see if the technology can be used in headphones?
 
For example, these OEM diamond drivers used in loudpseakers:
 
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/diamond-dome-tweeters/seas-excel-t29d001-diamond-dome-tweeter-matched-pair/
 
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hard-dome-tweeter/accuton-d20-6-3/4-diamond-dome-tweeter-89.5db-d20n-6-31/
 
Obviously these are tweeters, only 20mm, but there are bigger diamond drivers. For example Raidho D-1 and D-2 speakers (a Danish brand) uses 115mm diamond drivers for their woofers. So I know much bigger diamond drivers are available for OEMs, easily big enough for a full headphone driver.
 
Also my question was really implying whether or not Hifiman has interest in making a high end electrodynamic headphone? Obviously it's cheaper to use whatever material you currently have versus beryllium or diamond for planar based headphone.

 

[Nankai]

 People use coating over mylar diaphragm on a dynamic driver to improve its stiffness. The coating material include Aluminum, Titanium, Gold, carbon (someone call them diamond), nano material, etc.  I start to play with diamond diaphragm headphones since 2000, the model name of that headphone (earphone) called sony mdr-e868. It sound nicer than its older brother mdr-e888, in my opinion.
 
HIFIMAN team have their own approach on dynamic headphones. The newest diaphragm technology (patent pending) called "topology diaphragm". It was applied first on RE2000 in-ear. Its coating is nano material based. 

 

[Beagle]

  HIFIMAN headphones are not for everyone. We don't build for looking, we build for listening. .If you think sound quality worth its price, go ahead and buy it. The problem is that, in this thread, almost nobody ever listened or even saw the real sample. 

 
No headphone is worth $6000. End of story. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

[Torq]

I passed on the original HE-1000 not because of the sound but because they didn't feel or look the part of a $3,000 headphone.  The fit and finish was just comically poor compared to even the $400 Master & Dynamic MH40.
 
I have five pairs of TOTL headphones: Focal Utopia (x2), LCD-4, Abyss and HD800S, so it's not price/cost that's keeping me away from adding TOTL HiFi-Man cans to my collection. BUT at the prices being asked I expect BOTH sound-quality commensurate with the price AND a suitably high-end/luxury build, materials and finish.  It literally doesn't matter HOW good they sound ... if the aesthetics and build aren't there then I'll pass regardless.

 

[Nankai]

I feel extremely weird in a thread named "HIFIMAN Edition 6", and there are so many posts from those who did not see the actual CES sample, some of them don't even have experience with hifiman headphones. They are making conclusion how negative hifiman is, and how hifiman was kicked out from the market by competitors.  What's wrong? 

 

[YtseJamer]

No headphone is worth $6000. End of story. It's utterly ridiculous.

+1
RIDICULOUS

 

[Nankai]

  I passed on the original HE-1000 not because of the sound but because they didn't feel or look the part of a $3,000 headphone.  The fit and finish was just comically poor compared to even the $400 Master & Dynamic MH40.
 
I have five pairs of TOTL headphones: Focal Utopia (x2), LCD-4, Abyss and HD800S, so it's not price/cost that's keeping me away from adding TOTL HiFi-Man cans to my collection. BUT at the prices being asked I expect BOTH sound-quality commensurate with the price AND a suitably high-end/luxury build, materials and finish.  It literally doesn't matter HOW good they sound ... if the aesthetics and build aren't there then I'll pass regardless.

In some expensive models people mentioned, there is a headphone's material cost less than $50. Please do not guess which it is. 

 

[Torq]

  What's wrong? 

 
A recent run of less-than-price-appropriate build-quality headphones at premium pricing, coupled with apparent setting or prices based on well-circulated rumors of asking, publicly, and I'm paraphrasing, "How much can we sell these for?" clearly has people expecting the worst.
 
The Edition 6 might be completely different to what's come before in terms of build, materials and cost-to-price/cost-to-performance ratios.  But until they actually demonstrate that, you can't escape the effects of what's come before.
 
I think it's called "reaping what one sows".
 
At least, that's the way it looks to me.
 
All I can say for certain is that I liked the sound of the HE-1000 - but based on the build quality, materials, finish and so on I passed on it - and I thought it was far enough off base in that regard that it has soured my expectations for your brand.  
 

  In some expensive models people mentioned, there is a headphone's material cost less than $50. Please do not guess which it is. 

They could be $10 ... at least for the cans I mentioned they felt and looked as well as sounded the part.
 
At this level, you need to hit all of those or, well, apparently you get what you're seeing here.

 

[Nankai]

So did you own a pair of HE1000 V2 or did you go to CES and tried Edition 6 before you make your conclusion? 
 
Quote:

   
A recent run of less-than-price-appropriate build-quality headphones at premium pricing, coupled with apparent setting or prices based on well-circulated rumors of asking, publicly, and I'm paraphrasing, "How much can we sell these for?" clearly has people expecting the worst.
 
The Edition 6 might be completely different to what's come before in terms of build, materials and cost-to-price/cost-to-performance ratios.  But until they actually demonstrate that, you can't escape the effects of what's come before.
 
I think it's called "reaping what one sows".
 
At least, that's the way it looks to me.
 
All I can say for certain is that I liked the sound of the HE-1000 - but based on the build quality, materials, finish and so on I passed on it - and I thought it was far enough off base in that regard that it has soured my expectations for your brand.  
 

They could be $10 ... at least for the cans I mentioned they felt and looked as well as sounded the part.
 
At this level, you need to hit all of those or, well, apparently you get what you're seeing here.

 

[Torq]

 

So did you own a pair of HE1000 V2 or did you go to CES and tried Edition 6 before you make your conclusion?

 
What conclusion?
 
You're dodging the issue.
 
I'm talking about why you're getting the reaction you are, which is what you asked. It is NOT based on what the Edition 6 may or may not be, but IS based on your previous products, rapid upgrades/obsolence and perception of price/quality/value.  That's set a poor expectation among prior customers.  YOU have to deal with that.  And just saying "but our newer products are better" is not, it seems, going to be enough to do that.
 
To your specific question ...
 
I PAID to AUDITION your HE-1000.  If that's not a leap of  faith I don't know what it.
 
They sounded very nice.  The build felt extremely cheap, flimsy, tinny and just generally very poor for a $3,000 product.
 
That put me off your brand completely, despite being a former, enthusiastic, customer.  As a result I had no interest at all in even entertaining your HE-1000 v2.  That's a brand-perception issue.  It's your company's problem to turn that around, not mine.  Sometimes the damage done in earlier product iterations is not resolvable.  Companies have died that way.

 

[Khragon]

One of the reason is that we need to ask this question due to recent events:

When will ED6 v2 be released? In 6 months or a year?

 

[Nankai]

OK. Fine. You admit that you have no experience with our current top planar headphone called HE1000 V2, and you have no experience about Edition 6 CES sample as well. Now, please tell me why you have to pay to audit HE1000 v1. Who did you pay to? HIFIMAN? If there are anybody who use our name to make money, tell us who they are. We will sue him immediately. 
 
Quote:

   
What conclusion?
 
You're dodging the issue.
 
I'm talking about why you're getting the reaction you are, which is what you asked. It is NOT based on what the Edition 6 may or may not be, but IS based on your previous products, rapid upgrades/obsolence and perception of price/quality/value.  That's set a poor expectation among prior customers.  YOU have to deal with that.  And just saying "but our newer products are better" is not, it seems, going to be enough to do that.
 
To your specific question ...
 
I PAID to AUDITION your HE-1000.  If that's not a leap of  faith I don't know what it.
 
They sounded very nice.  The build felt extremely cheap, flimsy, tinny and just generally very poor for a $3,000 product.
 
That put me off your brand completely, despite being a former, enthusiastic, customer.  As a result I had no interest at all in even entertaining your HE-1000 v2.  That's a brand-perception issue.  It's your company's problem to turn that around, not mine.  Sometimes the damage done in earlier product iterations is not resolvable.  Companies have died that way.

 

[Torq]

OK. Fine. You admit that you have no experience with our current top planar headphone called HE1000 V2, and you have no experience about Edition 6 CES sample as well.

 
Yep, because your prior flagship was of such poor apparent build quality that you killed my interest in your brand.  That's a marketing/perception problem.  If you expect me, or others in my position, to simply forget our prior experiences with your products then you need to go get another PhD, preferably in sales, marketing or consumer psychology.
 
Quote:

 
Now, please tell me why you have to pay to audit HE1000 v1. Who did you pay to? HIFIMAN? 

​
No local dealer carried your HE-1000 product, and no one locally owned a pair, so I paid "The Cable Co." to rent a pair of your HE-1000 from their "Headphone Lending Library".
 
...
 
Now, you tell me ... if I thought the last of your products that I tried was poor value and not very well built, why would I go out of my way to bother listening to your next iteration?

 

[Torq]

I don't need to debate this with you.
 
You asked what was wrong, I attempted to provide you some insight.
 
Your previous products have, apparently, damaged the perception of your brand.  You can do something about that, or you can pretend it's not the case, but it's your problem not mine and I'm not going to comment further on the matter.  If I happen to encounter one of your newer models and it turns out to be the second coming, maybe my perceptions will changed,  but actual experience with your previous products is what got me here so I'm not going out of my way to make that happen.
 
Out.

 

[gikigill]

Own 2 HE400, 1 HE500 and 1 HE-6.

Not touching the newer Hifimans because the build is poor and they just don't sound worth the price.