[Nankai]

So lets describe your story here: You rent a pair HE1000 V1 from the cable company, and you like its sound quality but don't like its look. Then you trash something you don't have any experience, but same brand. Is it true?
 

 
   
 
Quote:

   
Yep, because your prior flagship was of such poor apparent build quality that you killed my interest in your brand.  That's a marketing/perception problem.  If you expect me, or others in my position, to simply forget our prior experiences with your products then you need to go get another PhD, preferably in sales, marketing or consumer psychology.
 
Quote:

 
Now, please tell me why you have to pay to audit HE1000 v1. Who did you pay to? HIFIMAN? 

​
No local dealer carried your HE-1000 product, and no one locally owned a pair, so I paid "The Cable Co." to rent a pair of your HE-1000 from their "Headphone Lending Library".
 
...
 
Now, you tell me ... if I thought the last of your products that I tried was poor value and not very well built, why would I go out of my way to bother listening to your next iteration?

 

  I don't need to debate this with you.
 
You asked what was wrong, I attempted to provide you some insight.
 
Your previous products have, apparently, damaged the perception of your brand.  You can do something about that, or you can pretend it's not the case, but it's your problem not mine and I'm not going to comment further on the matter.  If I happen to encounter one of your newer models and it turns out to be the second coming, maybe my perceptions will changed,  but actual experience with your previous products is what got me here so I'm not going out of my way to make that happen.
 
Out.

 

[PoochZag]

Antagonizing forum goers (customers) about why brand perception is low, isn't going to help brand perception.

There's a ton of good (free) feedback here if you listen and ask instead of defend and argue

 

[Torq]

Nice try, but you don't get to go putting words in my mouth; that's highly disingenuous.
 
I said that I'd tried the HE-1000 v.1 and based on how poorly built I felt it was built (not simply how it looked) it put me off your company's products (and I was an existing customer).
 
I have made no specific comments on, much less "trashed", any other product.  Nice going with that kind of assertion.  Now you can be sure that your brand is 100%, permanently, dead to me.
 
You asked why people were responding negatively to the Edition 6.
 
I gave you one answer.
 
You don't like it.  Fine.  It's just my opinion based on what else has been said in the thread.  Instead of trying to take something from that and try and address ist positively, you want to shift the issue from other people reacting to your previous to a personal, negative, debate with me.  
 
Well, that's not going to work.
 
I'm not responding further.  And I very much doubt your responses here so far are going to do you any favors whatsoever.

 

[YtseJamer]

Not touching the newer Hifimans because the build is poor and they just don't sound worth the price.

 
Same here.
 
And I have owned 1x HE400i, 1x HE560 and 1x HE500.
 
Good luck trying to fool people that it's worth spending $6000 for a pair of headphones.

 

[Yugo]

Dr. Fang Bian

Look at the 2nd hand market demand for HE400 and HE6. Why in the hell you stopped producing those is beyond me. Yes, at certain point we all need to move on. But a classic is always a classic! All u need to do is add new headband and it will sell like hot cakes. Especially compare to today's TOTL headphones. Look at the Sennheiser 600 and 650. That's what those 2 could've become. People love them because of their high value.

 

[Nankai]

Dr. Fang Bian

Look at the 2nd hand market demand for HE400 and HE6. Why in the hell you stopped producing those is beyond me. Yes, at certain point we all need to move on. But a classic is always a classic! All u need to do is add new headband and it will sell like hot cakes. Especially compare to today's TOTL headphones. Look at the Sennheiser 600 and 650. That's what those 2 could've become. People love them because of their high value.

 
 
In the previous 5 to 6 years, planar headphones developed so fast. After I built the lab from 2011, there are a lot of new ideas from our brain, and there are so many approach to be improved. From our current understanding of the technology, HE400 is overall lacking details, HE6 is too bright in the high. Those problem can be clearly attributed to driver and diaphragm design. We have to stop them, because some people like them doesn't means they are perfect and cannot be improved. I know if I do care about money, I should keep them available. But I do care more on improving planar technology. 
 
Fang

 

[Nankai]

I am confirming that Edition 6 and Shangri-La metal parts use same aluminum material of iphone. 

 

[Jozurr]

   
 
In the previous 5 to 6 years, planar headphones developed so fast. After I built the lab from 2011, there are a lot of new ideas from our brain, and there are so many approach to be improved. From our current understanding of the technology, HE400 is overall lacking details, HE6 is too bright in the high. Those problem can be clearly attributed to driver and diaphragm design. We have to stop them, because some people like them doesn't means they are perfect and cannot be improved. I know if I do care about money, I should keep them available. But I do care more on improving planar technology. 
 
Fang

 
I think you need to visit our HE-6 thread to find out how we don't hear the HE-6 to be bright, and what kind of mods we have done to make them some of the best headphones. Maybe learn a thing or two about value for money while you are at it.
 
I have been the owner of HE-500, HE-560, HE-1000v1 and HE-6 and still consider HE-6 to be one of the best headphones and still own them. Never going to buy the Edition 6 at that kind of pricing. It's unbelievable.
 
Furthermore, your customer service has not been very nice lately. I would like you to answer a few questions while you are here, just to clarify things:
 
1) Why did you want to pay customers to give higher product ratings? (sell more, make more money?)
2) Why are you now forcing customers to spend $200 for repair of headbands, when you used to sell head bands for $50? (More money?)
3) Why do you not offer HE-1000 V2 Pads to customers and force them $600 upgrades (MONEYYYYY?)
4) Why were you quoted as saying that you will layer all your upgrades that you have now, and bring them out one by one instead of putting them all in one go in the next best thing?
5) Why did you never file a police report for the Shangri-La and how did you get them back when they were stolen?

 

[Nankai]

   
I think you need to visit our HE-6 thread to find out how we don't hear the HE-6 to be bright, and what kind of mods we have done to make them some of the best headphones. Maybe learn a thing or two about value for money while you are at it.
 
I have been the owner of HE-500, HE-560, HE-1000v1 and HE-6 and still consider HE-6 to be one of the best headphones and still own them. Never going to buy the Edition 6 at that kind of pricing. It's unbelievable.
 
Furthermore, your customer service has not been very nice lately. I would like you to answer a few questions while you are here, just to clarify things:
 
1) Why did you want to pay customers to give higher product ratings? (sell more, make more money?)
2) Why are you now forcing customers to spend $200 for repair of headbands, when you used to sell head bands for $50? (More money?)
3) Why do you not offer HE-1000 V2 Pads to customers and force them $600 upgrades (MONEYYYYY?)
4) Why were you quoted as saying that you will layer all your upgrades that you have now, and bring them out one by one instead of putting them all in one go in the next best thing?
5) Why did you never file a police report for the Shangri-La and how did you get them back when they were stolen?

Your words made me feel that you are the police. Las vegas police is nicer though. 
1. We don't want to pay customer to give high rates. The problem is actually on the opposite: there are a lot of one star amazon reviews from customers who did not buy our products. Fortunately we have contacted amazon to remove some of them. Amazon team encourage us try to contact our real amazon customers to give real comment/reviews in amazon. 
2. I have no ideas about forcing customers. From 2015 to 2016, our international business team lost 3 to 4 experienced workers (all female), because the new law in China is actually encourage female workers withdraw from there job. I only have Ryan to work on customer service in most of later 2016. If he offend any customers because his lacking experience, please email me to fang@hifiman.com. Fortunately I am hiring a new experienced customer service employee. He is taking over the work and try to fix the problems.
3. We will eventually have V2 pads available, but we need to catch our order first. Believe or not, we did not catch HE1000 V2 order until now. 
In addition, this is a big problem here: when some complain how disastor HE1000 V1 build quality is, I offer upgrade to V2.
However, V1 and V2 are very different. There are improved headband, much lighter weight, less picky on amp, etc...
It is not to use V2 pad on V1 to make V1 to V2. If I offer the pads for V1, then those will say 1) V1 sound sucks with V2 pads. 2) V1 with V2 pads beat anything. 3) V1 is still badly built though, because I don't want to upgrade to V2. 
4. I don't understand what you are talking about. I have the right to make the product I like. The best thing is Shangri-La. This is the best I can do, and I don't think I can make anything better in the next 3 to 5 years. 
5. We did report to CES and police. We have four pairs Shangri-La headphones, and we lost one of them.
 
From your questions, I can tell you speak and read/write Mandarin. You are taking some impression or rumors from China headphone website. There are a lot criticism and rumors against me from my country. There is good and bad in my country, just like any country in the world. But I am still proud of my nationality though: I am a Chinese, a mainlander, a Mandarin native speaker. 

 

[Jozurr]

  Your words made me feel that you are the police. Las vegas police is nicer though. 
1. We don't want to pay customer to give high rates. The problem is actually on the opposite: there are a lot of one star amazon reviews from customers who did not buy our products. Fortunately we have contacted amazon to remove some of them. Amazon team encourage us try to contact our real amazon customers to give real comment/reviews in amazon. 
2. I have no ideas about forcing customers. From 2015 to 2016, our international business team lost 3 to 4 experienced workers (all female), because the new law in China is actually encourage female workers withdraw from there job. I only have Ryan to work on customer service in most of later 2016. If he offend any customers because his lacking experience, please email me to fang@hifiman.com. Fortunately I am hiring a new experienced customer service employee. He is taking over the work and try to fix the problems.
3. We will eventually have V2 pads available, but we need to catch our order first. Believe or not, we did not catch HE1000 V2 order until now. 
In addition, this is a big problem here: when some complain how disastor HE1000 V1 build quality is, I offer upgrade to V2.
However, V1 and V2 are very different. There are improved headband, much lighter weight, less picky on amp, etc...
It is not to use V2 pad on V1 to make V1 to V2. If I offer the pads for V1, then those will say 1) V1 sound sucks with V2 pads. 2) V1 with V2 pads beat anything. 3) V1 is still badly built though, because I don't want to upgrade to V2. 
4. I don't understand what you are talking about. I have the right to make the product I like. The best thing is Shangri-La. This is the best I can do, and I don't think I can make anything better in the next 3 to 5 years. 
5. We did report to CES and police. 

 
Thanks for at least answering to a customer who has been loyal and bought 4 of your products, while calling him the police, just because I questioned your practices lately. Well done. 
 
1. Are you saying you are unaware that your company sent an email saying that if a customer posted a 5 star review of Hifiman HE-1000 v1 AND Hifiman HE-1000 v2, screenshot those reviews and send to Hifiman, they will be sent RE-300A and if the reviews include pics, they will be sent HE Adapter? Is that not giving products for good ratings?
2. Are you unaware that no new headbands are being offered to customers who break their headbands on your headphones like he-400i, he-560 etc for $50, which was always the practice, and they are now being made to send the headphones to China, incur heavy shipping costs, pay a lot more to you, and then risk losing headphones in transit?
3. Why do you not let customers decide that if they like the HE-1000v1 with V2 pads or not? and whats the problem if they dont want to upgrade after they have used the V2 pads on V1? Do you have a production deficit? Can you give a lead time for when the V2 products will be available to V1 customers? Why are you creating new headphones like Edition 6 when you cant even fulfil orders for HE-1000 V2?
4. Of course you have the rights to make the product you like. I am just questioning the business decision behind doing a single upgrade at a time and releasing it at double price instead of substantial upgrades in one go? Is money a factor in this?
5. You got them back on day 2 when people heard them again at CES? or you have multiple pairs of them?

 

[Nankai]

1. HE1000 is a headphone got great reviews in all kinds of platforms. We got the problem in amazon in most of 2016 that there are always be 1 star review from people who is not a real customer. We have contacted amazon to solve this problem, but we were told amazon can not deal with such problems. We were told that try to get our real customers and encourage them to write reviews in amazon. I apologize if there are misunderstanding about sending a $20 earbud for appreciate customer's writing. We have stopped sending earbuds, but we are still working on following up our customers after they received our products. We obey their help to post reviews if they really like our product and we do this based on not giving them gifts right now, only because we need their help to dilute one star fraud review in amazon.   
 
2. We stopped selling parts because there are fake hifiman headphones appeared. They start from purchasing our parts to build their own. Ryan misunderstand the procedure though and ask customers to ship them back to China. I did not aware of this until 4 weeks ago. I correct him as soon as I noticed it is a mistake so that customers don't have to ship them back to China.
 
3.4. Your question try to make me looks like I want to take advantage from customers. But I have my way to do business. There is no money fact behind of this. If yes, all I need to do is to sell more HE6 and HE400, as I mentioned before.
 
5. We have three pairs Shangri-La headphones. We lost one. 

 

[Clemmaster]

In some expensive models people mentioned, there is a headphone's material cost less than $50. Please do not guess which it is. 

I guess the HE-1000? What do I win?

 

[Jozurr]

1. HE1000 is a headphone got great reviews in all kinds of platforms. We got the problem in amazon in most of 2016 that there are always be 1 star review from people who is not a real customer. We have contacted amazon to solve this problem, but we were told amazon can not deal with such problems. We were told that try to get our real customers and encourage them to write reviews in amazon. I apologize if there are misunderstanding about sending a $20 earbud for appreciate customer's writing. We have stopped sending earbuds, but we are still working on following up our customers after they received our products. We obey their help to post reviews if they really like our product and we do this based on not giving them gifts right now, only because we need their help to dilute one star fraud review in amazon.   

2. We stopped selling parts because there are fake hifiman headphones appeared. They start from purchasing our parts to build their own. Ryan misunderstand the procedure though and ask customers to ship them back to China. I did not aware of this until 4 weeks ago. I correct him as soon as I noticed it is a mistake so that customers don't have to ship them back to China.

3.4. Your question try to make me looks like I want to take advantage from customers. But I have my way to do business. There is no money fact behind of this. If yes, all I need to do is to sell more HE6 and HE400, as I mentioned before.

5. We have three pairs Shangri-La headphones. We lost one. 

1. Email specifically mentioned reward for only for 5 star reviews on BOTH he-1000v1 and v2. Anyway, just wanted your point of view.

2. I am assuming you will still sell parts to customers who need them, including headbands. Im hoping my he-6 headband doesnt break but if it does, Id hate to send my headphones.

3.4. Up to you to decide, I have voiced my concerns.


5. Thanks for clarifying it and sorry to hear about the theft.

I would like you to reconsider the pricing on the Edition 6, so you take up a market, instead of pricing it out of the market. A lot more headphones get sold due to high praise, which comes from more people having them. It's a chain reaction. A lower price will be a welcome change.

 

[Clemmaster]

HIFIMAN headphones are not for everyone. We don't build for looking, we build for listening. .If you think sound quality worth its price, go ahead and buy it. The problem is that, in this thread, almost nobody ever listened or even saw the real sample. 

Let me share you a secret: Edition 6 CES sample was made of real wood, not veneer plywood. Real wood is actually easier to build than veneer plywood. The sample looks so nice that most visitors in CES tell me your headphone looking improved so much. Even the security guard who knows zero about headphones was impressed when we take them to our show room. If you can not judge a earcup was made of real wood or veneer plywood from such a photo, how come you can comment the real headphone looks good or not? 

The finished Edition 6 will change to veneer plywood earcup, because I can not stay with CES sample which weight 510g. Veneer plywood structure also sound better, esp. in bass. 

That reminds me of the story of the HE-560. Alas, not only did they fail the 1m drop test, they actually failed the 0m + ambient pressure test! Cracking on their own.
We all know what came after that: the crappiest veneer on the HE-560.

It's not fair to say "our tooling or staff wasn't very familiar with the "technology"". It's YOUR job to figure these things out. Your customers are not your beta testers (or "post-beta" testers).

 

[GrouchoMarx1933]

So let me see if I can sort this thread out.
 
1. Hifiman announces a new $6,000 headphone
2. People who are tired of overpriced uber-expensive headphones AND who have been burned by previous business practices of Hifiman complain
3. Fang arrives and tries to put out fires, asks why people are being negative
4. People respond honestly. Many, if not most of these people are current or former Hifiman customers
5. Fang attacks the people who took the time to give him honest feedback
 
Good luck selling lots of those $6,000 headphones!
 
By the way, are you really trying to tell us that the difference in materials and production techniques between this and an HE-6 warrants an approximately six times higher price just to make it a worthwhile venture? And yet you still can't produce something that looks and feels like a premium product? Come on, this must be a joke, right?
 
The general trend of this thread has been overwhelmingly negative, and Head-Fi must represent one of your largest customer bases. Certainly your most vocal and informed customer base, the one you would do well to listen to about what they want. You could be paying attention to all the advice that you're being given here, advice as to why people who used to LOVE your brand are now walking away from it. Instead you're attacking us for speaking up. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who were considering a first time or repeat purchase of your headphones are now crossing your company's name off their list. I know I am.
 
If you think sound is all that matters, then listen up. It's not difficult.