HIFIMAN Arya - Arya Stealth - Arya Organic :: Impressions Thread
Nov 3, 2023 at 11:26 PM Post #11,176 of 11,922
Nov 4, 2023 at 1:58 AM Post #11,177 of 11,922
I'm really curious about the Organic but it seems there's a large consensus around elevated brightness.
Buying an expensive headphone then pads and cables to tame excess seems at odd.

Maybe it was specifically tuned for Hifiman amps?

Has anyone been exposed to too much trebles when using an EF400/600 or seranade?
A bit of EQ should do the trick, if you don't want to go into buying accessories.
It is also free and you can target the "issues" much more specifically :)
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 2:32 AM Post #11,179 of 11,922
Do you think the schiit Lokius or Loki mini + would tame the organic as I have both equalizers that I use with daps.
I haven't tried any of those, so I can't say.
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 7:07 AM Post #11,181 of 11,922
I do not at all agree with this "painfully bright" assessment at all. The organic has better vocals and mids than any of its predecessors and has the best soundstage and clarity and definition it its price range. It takes time to listen to it for a few days or weeks and make an accurate judgement. The dekoni sheepskin pads or a slight EQ treble shelf can fix the brightness for those who find it too much but the advantages of these far outway this small issue.
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 7:12 AM Post #11,182 of 11,922
I do not at all agree with this "painfully bright" assessment at all. The organic has better vocals and mids than any of its predecessors and has the best soundstage and clarity and definition it its price range. It takes time to listen to it for a few days or weeks and make an accurate judgement. The dekoni sheepskin pads or a slight EQ treble shelf can fix the brightness for those who find it too much but the advantages of these far outway this small issue.
Have you heard the HE1000 Stealth?
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 7:18 AM Post #11,183 of 11,922
I have received the Arya Organic for couple of days now and I deliberately waited for couple of days to write my impressions because I have done alot of AB.
The only thing I can say is this headphone sounds mind-boggling and yes very "Organic" like it's name lol

I have my Hifiman Edition XS for 1 year now which I compared a lot to the Arya stealth and eventually returned the Arya stealth because back then the difference and price ratio wasn't "worth" it for me.

So now I'm directly comparing to my edition XS with the Arya Organic and the main differences I noticed immediately:

A very meaty and warm/smooth mid presentation which I only remember my older Audeze LCD-2 and LCD-3 could do. (and in no way I remember the Arya stealth was doing this, it sounded bit more cold, more thin and similar to the edition XS in tuning). also don't remember a Hifiman sounding like this in "smoothness" also the highs and lows share same smoothness and refinement in sound. I tried also the HE1000 V2 non stealth last weekend, which was okay but it doesn't sound in any way like the Arya Organic. I'm not saying the HE1000V2 was worse or better, more equal but the arya organic was having that timbre more of my taste. While I liked the HE1000 V2, compared to the edition XS again the difference wasn't big, they sharing the same timbre, same housesound. Arya organic is very difference which in my case was a good thing I guess haha

The Arya Organic's high's are elevated yes and no ( or call it more like extended?) but don't sound sibilant at all and I'm someone who's normally very sensitive in this area because I suffer from severe tinnitus in my left ear, i'm especially sensitive in the 5k-10k sibilance. So I was scared in the first place when I read a lot of people had mixed reviews about the sibilance for the Arya organic, in my case it turned out well.

Arya Organic sounds smooth while still remaining incredible detailed, revealing, and having much better instrument separation compared to the Edition XS a BIG step up in clarity too. When I quick compare with the Edition XS, my edition XS suddenly started to sound veiled and thin, congested (which is crazy right? I loved this headphone for 1 year).

Soundstage: About the same width like the edition XS (which was already a very wide sounding soundstage). Arya organic soundstage height feels like bigger, more holographic. More is happening also in the big ranged soundstage, you're getting more (zoomed?) into the music but still the music sounds like you're in a big concert. The overall soundstage signature or shape is more rounded around you while the edition XS has a more oval shaped soundstage. Might sound weird but this is how I could describe the soundstage.

For those who are interested to read this is my direct comparison to the edition XS which I haven't found much people on the internet who have directly compare it so this is why i'm sharing this with you. I hope you enjoy the read and my experience as much as i'm doing right now
 
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Nov 4, 2023 at 3:27 PM Post #11,184 of 11,922
The Organic has the biggest soundstage, clarity and definition of anything in its price range. The treble is forward but that is also what adds to its vibrancy. Changing pads, cables, amps is quite common here on this forum. But it's probably pads that will make the biggest difference. Dekoni lambskin will dampen the treble if that is what you are after. Nothing is perfect and you have to choose the items that are most important based on the music you want to listen to, The organic is especially great for classical and jazz. But then reading about sound is probably not a great way to decide if you are going to like a headphone. Unfortunately this often means either owning several or buying and selling until you find what you like and this can be time consuming and expensive but that is what is also fun.
Are you omitting HEKS? Because I have had Organic and Heks(now), and I can assure that Heks is above organic in clarity, detail and resolution.

In what I am not sure is in the soundstage, Heks is very wide, but maybe it could be a little more in Organic but I cannot assure it without doing a/b that I could not unfortunately.
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 3:53 PM Post #11,185 of 11,922
Arya Stealth kind of change a little depending on your source chain. I currently have them paired with a Bifrost 2/64 + Soloist 3XP, and I just picked up this cable https://corpsecable.com/collections...-cable-for-focal-elear-clear-elex-4-pin-xlr-1 and I was using an Audiophile Ninja cable prior to that (which cuts the brightness).
I do own an Asgard 3, but I am lending it to a friend at the moment. From what I remember the Asgard 3 cuts some of the brightness from the Arya. I wouldn't describe the Arya as warm/dark though (amp dependent I would guess). While I do believe cables make a difference, I am wondering if it is just the amp pairing not being to your liking?!
I think you may be right. I think the Asgard may be a bit underpowered for me. I prefer the Valhalla and Lyr 3 with my other phones, the Lyr esp with the Aryas.

I guess the Arya's need more power in general? I'm considering the Jot 2, Lyr+ (for its functionality with SS which I needed the Asgard 3 for). The Burson is 1K+ so I'm not sure if I want to budget for that or not.

Might sell the Asgard or just move on from it I guess. I didn't realize the Aryas needed so much juice.
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 3:54 PM Post #11,186 of 11,922
Nov 4, 2023 at 4:33 PM Post #11,188 of 11,922
Wow, Integra are totl. That's a hefty chunk of change for these phones. How'd you like the copper/silver thing going on? I've only ever had one or the other.
To be honest, I haven't that much to compare with. Earlier I bought a Signum+ from AC, which I was very happy with. So when I wanted to upgrade the stock cable for Arya v2, I consulted AC for advice. That's how I got the Integra :beyersmile: As I wrote, I enjoy the more openness it provides (I also use it for my Stellia's - great there too)
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 6:14 PM Post #11,189 of 11,922
OK, thanks for the tip. I might try a different amp before earpads though.
For DACs, I've only owned my FiiO K9 Pro ESS, but for amps can at least say that at an audio show when comparing the Eleven Audio Broadway (smaller) and Formula S (bigger) amps (and before that a small DAP I think with a mini tube, but rather coarse volume control) which each had a different Abyss Diana MR hooked up, but the same source, after even a cursory volume matching (which is oh-so important) between the two amps which were both plenty adequate to drive the Diana MR loud enough, as far as I could tell, there was nothing to prefer between the amps, each presenting a similar if not identical tonality and largely the same qualities of details and "bigness", such to be expected if they all indeed measured as having the same largely flat frequency response.

With audio, I would rather start with the cheapest possible solutions before "escalating", so trying out EQ first, then maybe earpads, though even before earpads, if this "darkness" you are hearing is in fact rather a case of the amp not driving the headphones loud enough (does it stay dark when you increase the volume (make sure your digital source's volume controls are also maxed), or is your amp already on max volume?), then there is objectively no workaround but to try switching from an unbalanced cable to a balanced cable if the amp supports it (it simply doubles the voltage output, any other effects likely being caused by lack of volume matching), else acquire a more powerful amp. Anyways, at least per https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hiit-asgard-3-headphone-amp-dac-review.14393/, it is certainly exquisitely neutral, and the headphone output distortion performance is excellent, so I wouldn't expect it to be the cause of the darkness you are perceiving unless it were simply failing to drive the headphones loud enough. As for earpads, which measurably can cause changes in frequency, unless you are adamantly avoiding EQ or are looking for improved comfort, I would rather use a free option like EQ to change my headphones' tonality.

As for EQ recommendations provided that the issue doesn't have to do with amp power, then if your Arya is one of the models predating the Arya Organic (I doubt it is the Organic you are finding "dark"), to address "mud", if that's what you meant by "darkness", if you can get your hands on parametric EQ (PEQ) software, I would place a -2.5 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 1 centered at 270 Hz; the switch from the Arya Stealth to the Organic theoretically does something similar, but with added bass and upper treble. Then, if you want a bit more clarity or find the midrange a bit "dull", I would add a 4 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 2 centered at 1.7 kHz to fill the "HiFiMan dip". Then you may want to add a -3 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 5 centered at 3.15 kHz to smoothen that peak. I am basically describing how to EQ the Arya Stealth toward the headphones.com's Harman target based on the graph below:

1699134011342.png


I can say for me that when I first turned on the EQ profile I produced from this graph, the jump in clarity was truly like lifting a veil. And if you are familiar with my posts (post #4,665), you would know that the rabbit hole of EQ for achieving yet greater levels of clarity or transparency only continues.

Finally, if the "darkness" you described was rather from a lack of treble, you can apply a high-shelf filter centered between 7 kHz or 10 kHz and play with the gain and Q factor to your preference. A general "ear gain" peaking filter with a Q factor of 1 centered at 3 kHz can also be used to play with how much upper midrange and lower treble (the region naturally amplified by your ears) you want.

Note that whenever you add a positive gain PEQ (or graphic EQ) filter, you must also apply a "digital pre-amp" to prevent that EQ from causing digital clipping. Technically speaking, both digital and analog volume controls are merely performing an attenuation of the signal from reaching its maximum value. With your amp's volume knob turned to the max, it is simply passing in the DAC's full output, whereby the amp will only clip if the DAC is capable of outputting voltages beyond the amp's nominal input range. Likewise, the DAC will only clip if its digital input was clipped in the sense of the signal being boosted beyond the maximum values for digitally representing the signal's loudness. So if you are boosting by 5 dB, you should apply a digital pre-amp of -5 dB or more; on Equalizer APO, you would check that the "peak gain" on the lower left is zero or less. This does require you to run your amp at a higher volume or gain setting or gain, though.
 
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Nov 4, 2023 at 11:43 PM Post #11,190 of 11,922
For DACs, I've only owned my FiiO K9 Pro ESS, but for amps can at least say that at an audio show when comparing the Eleven Audio Broadway (smaller) and Formula S (bigger) amps (and before that a small DAP I think with a mini tube, but rather coarse volume control) which each had a different Abyss Diana MR hooked up, but the same source, after even a cursory volume matching (which is oh-so important) between the two amps which were both plenty adequate to drive the Diana MR loud enough, as far as I could tell, there was nothing to prefer between the amps, each presenting a similar if not identical tonality and largely the same qualities of details and "bigness", such to be expected if they all indeed measured as having the same largely flat frequency response.

With audio, I would rather start with the cheapest possible solutions before "escalating", so trying out EQ first, then maybe earpads, though even before earpads, if this "darkness" you are hearing is in fact rather a case of the amp not driving the headphones loud enough (does it stay dark when you increase the volume (make sure your digital source's volume controls are also maxed), or is your amp already on max volume?), then there is objectively no workaround but to try switching from an unbalanced cable to a balanced cable if the amp supports it (it simply doubles the voltage output, any other effects likely being caused by lack of volume matching), else acquire a more powerful amp. Anyways, at least per https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hiit-asgard-3-headphone-amp-dac-review.14393/, it is certainly exquisitely neutral, and the headphone output distortion performance is excellent, so I wouldn't expect it to be the cause of the darkness you are perceiving unless it were simply failing to drive the headphones loud enough. As for earpads, which measurably can cause changes in frequency, unless you are adamantly avoiding EQ or are looking for improved comfort, I would rather use a free option like EQ to change my headphones' tonality.

As for EQ recommendations provided that the issue doesn't have to do with amp power, then if your Arya is one of the models predating the Arya Organic (I doubt it is the Organic you are finding "dark"), to address "mud", if that's what you meant by "darkness", if you can get your hands on parametric EQ (PEQ) software, I would place a -2.5 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 1 centered at 270 Hz; the switch from the Arya Stealth to the Organic theoretically does something similar, but with added bass and upper treble. Then, if you want a bit more clarity or find the midrange a bit "dull", I would add a 4 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 2 centered at 1.7 kHz to fill the "HiFiMan dip". Then you may want to add a -3 dB peaking filter with a Q factor of 5 centered at 3.15 kHz to smoothen that peak. I am basically describing how to EQ the Arya Stealth toward the headphones.com's Harman target based on the graph below:

1699134011342.png

I can say for me that when I first turned on the EQ profile I produced from this graph, the jump in clarity was truly like lifting a veil. And if you are familiar with my posts (post #4,665), you would know that the rabbit hole of EQ for achieving yet greater levels of clarity or transparency only continues.

Finally, if the "darkness" you described was rather from a lack of treble, you can apply a high-shelf filter centered between 7 kHz or 10 kHz and play with the gain and Q factor to your preference. A general "ear gain" peaking filter with a Q factor of 1 centered at 3 kHz can also be used to play with how much upper midrange and lower treble (the region naturally amplified by your ears) you want.

Note that whenever you add a positive gain PEQ (or graphic EQ) filter, you must also apply a "digital pre-amp" to prevent that EQ from causing digital clipping. Technically speaking, both digital and analog volume controls are merely performing an attenuation of the signal from reaching its maximum value. With your amp's volume knob turned to the max, it is simply passing in the DAC's full output, whereby the amp will only clip if the DAC is capable of outputting voltages beyond the amp's nominal input range. Likewise, the DAC will only clip if its digital input was clipped in the sense of the signal being boosted beyond the maximum values for digitally representing the signal's loudness. So if you are boosting by 5 dB, you should apply a digital pre-amp of -5 dB or more; on Equalizer APO, you would check that the "peak gain" on the lower left is zero or less. This does require you to run your amp at a higher volume or gain setting or gain, though.
Yeah I use SPDIF so no EQ for me. I'll check out some pads, they were good for my Aeons. I don't even want to really get into EQ at this point but I'll keep it in mind.
 

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