HIFIMAN Arya - Arya Stealth - Arya Organic :: Impressions Thread
Apr 6, 2020 at 1:55 AM Post #1,636 of 11,920
Thanks for your input.

I'm looking at several amp and dac separates and aio solutions (and some I have to say I rule out prima facie just based on looks).

Now looking at the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition for the headphone out power which is supposedly "extreme" : "The Extreme Power design excels with 0.1 Ohm output impedance, a maximum output level of +22 dBu, and a maximum output power of 1.5 Watts - per channel!"

Still not sure that would be enough for the Arya's; the aio Burson Conductor 3x has "7.5W per channel while its half-the-power single-ended output is still powerful enough to drive any headphones with ease." for about the same price (yes, you don't get all the features of the ADI, but I'm not even sure I'm interested in all them anyway).

For the time being I'll just wait until I make sure I really like the Aryas (even with my maybe under powered with my Gilmore Lite Mk2 which has 1.5w of power). I'm just anxious to get the most out of them as quickly as possible (I don't want to wait months to upgrade, unless good deals are to be had soon with all that's going on with the economy).
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 2:14 AM Post #1,637 of 11,920
I used to have the HEKV1 (supposedly similar driver with differences in acoustics) and it did make a difference when I went from Mojo to BHA-1.

Was it still the Mojo feeding the BHA-1 when you heard a difference or was it using a different DAC?
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 4:12 AM Post #1,639 of 11,920
Thanks for your input.

I'm looking at several amp and dac separates and aio solutions (and some I have to say I rule out prima facie just based on looks).

Now looking at the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition for the headphone out power which is supposedly "extreme" : "The Extreme Power design excels with 0.1 Ohm output impedance, a maximum output level of +22 dBu, and a maximum output power of 1.5 Watts - per channel!"

Still not sure that would be enough for the Arya's; the aio Burson Conductor 3x has "7.5W per channel while its half-the-power single-ended output is still powerful enough to drive any headphones with ease." for about the same price (yes, you don't get all the features of the ADI, but I'm not even sure I'm interested in all them anyway).

For the time being I'll just wait until I make sure I really like the Aryas (even with my maybe under powered with my Gilmore Lite Mk2 which has 1.5w of power). I'm just anxious to get the most out of them as quickly as possible (I don't want to wait months to upgrade, unless good deals are to be had soon with all that's going on with the economy).

Hi PoSR77,

Re. your question about power for the Arya, people listen at different volume levels (louder or lower), and different kinds of music are louder (metal) or quieter (polyphony), so without knowing how hard you listen to and to what kind of music, in my opinion nobody can give you an answer on which you can really rely.

I own both the RME ADI-2 Pro and the Arya, I listen (to metal, ancient music, etc., but I mainly use the Arya for ambient music like dark ambient) at very low levels, and I usually set my RME at around -30dB when listening to the Arya directly out of the RME.
However I recently bought a Benchmark HPA4, and I have the impression that the bass of the Arya out of the HPA4 would be better, but this is a purely subjective feeling which I have no time to blindly double test.

In case you are looking for an amp, there is a hardly known one with even better measurements than that of the Benchmark (which is already top notch, as confirmed by the independent measurements https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-benchmark-hpa4-headphone-amp-pre.8141/) ,
and much cheaper (only € 1100-1200 I think vs € 3500 for the HPA4), but it doesn't have the user-friendly user interface of the HPA4:
the Funk LAP-2.V4-S
the site is unfortunately in German (one of the downsides for which the price is so low):
http://www.funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/ABHOERSYSTEME.htm
I eventually didn't buy it because I could afford the HPA4 and do care a lot about its very user-friendly colour touchscreen.

BTW, I think the RME user interface, although less practical with its buttons (I wish it was bigger with a touchscreen) than that of the HPA4, gives so many possible settings, it is difficult to imagine how fantastic it is (and too easy to underestimate it), but once you tasted it, then all other DACs, even with better measurements, seem lacking in this respect, their settings are so limited that they feel in comparison "prehistoric" to me...

All the best and enjoy your music,
bidn
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 8:11 AM Post #1,640 of 11,920
Hi bidn,

I did mention very briefly what type of music I mostly listen to earlier itt, namely in this post:

...I like a forward presentation for much of the music (rock, pop, metal) I listen to...with the huge qualification that I find the Sundara's stage somewhat claustrophobic, congested, and narrow and I also listen to many genres that benefit from a wider/more refined sound stage and presentation (well recorded classical, jazz, folk, world music, atmospheric electronic, etc.). ...

I really listen to so many genres that it's easiest to name the ones I don't listen to: country (but I do like some bluegrass), (most) vocal classical, and techno. That's about it, although there are certain subgenres I don't like much, such as punk and death metal.

As for listening volume, it varies, but it's mostly in the mid to high mid level. It depends on the genre; I listen to classical (especially piano), singer/songwriter, ambient, and more experimental jazz (think the ECM label) often at low volumes, while with rock/pop/metal I'll listen at the mid to high mid level and occasionally above.

What I want is the power to really make a can like the Arya sound it's best at any volume. We know that almost any headphone out can drive any can to painfully loud levels, but that's quite different than the can being driven properly with effortless delivery, control, ample headroom, no congestion, dynamic swings, etc. So when I hear someone say that such and such amp drives a headphone to very loud levels and therefore it is powerful or at least adequate for any can, I say of course, but does it sound good or right at all volume levels?

Anyway, thanks for your lengthy and informative reply. I would think the HPA4 amp performance would be significantly better than the RME ADI-2 Pro...at least it should for the extra cost. I am considering it as well as an aio solution, even if it's more than I want to spend.

Thanks for the link to the invaluable ASR forum; I've used their resources many times in the past.

That Funk is going to be one of those I rule out prima facie due to looks alone, but thanks for the suggestion.

Take care!

---

I now think that I'm going to spend around $3,000 total for an amp and dac (or aio amp/dac like the HPA4). About 3x more than I want, but since I'll be listening to cans much more for the foreseeable future (again, due to the significant other now working from home--as I have done for many years with a lot of speaker based listening in my home office when only I was at home--due to the pandemic and also her liking her new work setup and duties and her employer also suggesting she could keep this position permanently) I'm willing to spend more to get where I want to be soon instead of slowly upgrading over years.

I'm thinking I'll get the RME ADI-2 DAC FS for the dac quality and features (the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition wouldn't be worth the headphone out upgrade, even if it is a significant one) and then a SPL Phonitor amp (x or ex). Should be (for me) end game setup with the Arya.

Thanks everyone and no more anxious "what the hell should I get!" worrying from me in here. I'll post impressions as I scale up with my gear (assuming I don't have the luck to simply love the Arya out of my Gilmore Lite MK2!).
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM Post #1,641 of 11,920
I really listen to so many genres that it's easiest to name the ones I don't listen to: country (but I do like some bluegrass), (most) vocal classical, and techno. That's about it, although there are certain subgenres I don't like much, such as punk and death metal.

Re. the Arya, it fits very well that you don't listen to vocal classical (like usually Hifiman headphones, it has some recession between 1 and 2 kHz, making e.g. high, female voices sometimes less realist), this shouldn't be much of an issue for you.


...
I now think that I'm going to spend around $3,000 total for an amp and dac (or aio amp/dac like the HPA4). About 3x more than I want, but since I'll be listening to cans much more for the foreseeable future (again, due to the significant other now working from home--as I have done for many years with a lot of speaker based listening in my home office when only I was at home--due to the pandemic and also her liking her new work setup and duties and her employer also suggesting she could keep this position permanently) I'm willing to spend more to get where I want to be soon instead of slowly upgrading over years.

I'm thinking I'll get the RME ADI-2 DAC FS for the dac quality and features (the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition wouldn't be worth the headphone out upgrade, even if it is a significant one) and then a SPL Phonitor amp (x or ex). Should be (for me) end game setup with the Arya.

Thanks everyone and no more anxious "what the hell should I get!" worrying from me in here. I'll post impressions as I scale up with my gear (assuming I don't have the luck to simply love the Arya out of my Gilmore Lite MK2!).

You are welcome.

I think that there is very little chance of going wrong with a RME ADI 2 (normal or Pro) DAC. especially if you connect it to an amp.

Re. the HPA4, it is only a amp without DAC.
Benchmark has a DAC, the DAC3, with an integrated amp feeling much more powerful than that of my RME, and also feeling as having a higher SQ than my RME ADI-2 PRO, but its user interface is a no-go for me (I wrote some comparative impressions of the DAC3 with the Utopia here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/post-15188208 ).

I thought about why the Arya could sound better with the HPA4 out of the RME rather than directly out of the RME.
This may also due to the fact that, while I would set my RME at about -30 dB for direct listening through the Arya, when I listen through it out of the chain RME --> XLR --> HPA4 I set my RME then to a higher level, (I forgot maybe -10 dB), and if you look up the curves THD+N versus power on the Audio Science Review site, you see that the THD+N normally gets lower (better) as the power increases nearing the extremum and optimum lowest THD+N (= highest SINAD) value, at least for properly functioning devices like the RME.

Wishing you peace of mind and audio pleasure,
With the epidemics we are supposed to work at home (many temptations to do other things here), so I need to get back to work...
all the best,
bidn
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 10:33 AM Post #1,642 of 11,920
Hi bidn,

I did mention very briefly what type of music I mostly listen to earlier itt, namely in this post:



I really listen to so many genres that it's easiest to name the ones I don't listen to: country (but I do like some bluegrass), (most) vocal classical, and techno. That's about it, although there are certain subgenres I don't like much, such as punk and death metal.

As for listening volume, it varies, but it's mostly in the mid to high mid level. It depends on the genre; I listen to classical (especially piano), singer/songwriter, ambient, and more experimental jazz (think the ECM label) often at low volumes, while with rock/pop/metal I'll listen at the mid to high mid level and occasionally above.

What I want is the power to really make a can like the Arya sound it's best at any volume. We know that almost any headphone out can drive any can to painfully loud levels, but that's quite different than the can being driven properly with effortless delivery, control, ample headroom, no congestion, dynamic swings, etc. So when I hear someone say that such and such amp drives a headphone to very loud levels and therefore it is powerful or at least adequate for any can, I say of course, but does it sound good or right at all volume levels?

Anyway, thanks for your lengthy and informative reply. I would think the HPA4 amp performance would be significantly better than the RME ADI-2 Pro...at least it should for the extra cost. I am considering it as well as an aio solution, even if it's more than I want to spend.

Thanks for the link to the invaluable ASR forum; I've used their resources many times in the past.

That Funk is going to be one of those I rule out prima facie due to looks alone, but thanks for the suggestion.

Take care!

---

I now think that I'm going to spend around $3,000 total for an amp and dac (or aio amp/dac like the HPA4). About 3x more than I want, but since I'll be listening to cans much more for the foreseeable future (again, due to the significant other now working from home--as I have done for many years with a lot of speaker based listening in my home office when only I was at home--due to the pandemic and also her liking her new work setup and duties and her employer also suggesting she could keep this position permanently) I'm willing to spend more to get where I want to be soon instead of slowly upgrading over years.

I'm thinking I'll get the RME ADI-2 DAC FS for the dac quality and features (the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition wouldn't be worth the headphone out upgrade, even if it is a significant one) and then a SPL Phonitor amp (x or ex). Should be (for me) end game setup with the Arya.

Thanks everyone and no more anxious "what the hell should I get!" worrying from me in here. I'll post impressions as I scale up with my gear (assuming I don't have the luck to simply love the Arya out of my Gilmore Lite MK2!).

Take a look at Cayin iHA-6 amp, very powerful (both voltage and current) and versatile, also a very fair price.
 
Apr 7, 2020 at 5:11 AM Post #1,643 of 11,920
Is Mojo powerful enough for Arya (90dB) ?
My Mojo is a great pairing with my Sundara (94dB) and I still have plenty of power available.
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 10:05 AM Post #1,644 of 11,920
If you’re in doubt whether or not your amp will drive X headphone, I strongly suggest you use something like this: http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html
There is far too much misinformation with regards to power and how little of it that’s actually needed to get to say a 100 dB, which is very loud.
I think you can get a decent volume out of the Mojo, especially since it is pre-amped by whatever you’re hooking it up to...that gives you 1-2 V more.
Personally though I’d just spring for a Magni which will power all and everything you care to throw at it...maaaybe with the exception of an HE6, because we all know that everyone that owns an HE6 also listens to music somewhere around a 120-150 dB:p
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 11:04 AM Post #1,645 of 11,920
If you’re in doubt whether or not your amp will drive X headphone, I strongly suggest you use something like this: http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html
There is far too much misinformation with regards to power and how little of it that’s actually needed to get to say a 100 dB, which is very loud.
I think you can get a decent volume out of the Mojo, especially since it is pre-amped by whatever you’re hooking it up to...that gives you 1-2 V more.
Personally though I’d just spring for a Magni which will power all and everything you care to throw at it...maaaybe with the exception of an HE6, because we all know that everyone that owns an HE6 also listens to music somewhere around a 120-150 dB:p

Interesting link! Thx!
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 1:05 PM Post #1,646 of 11,920
Is Mojo powerful enough for Arya (90dB) ?
My Mojo is a great pairing with my Sundara (94dB) and I still have plenty of power available.

yes it can drive them fine but your be missing dyamics as they require alot more power to shine. i have a mojo and used it with them

you will need to go up a level from the mojo to make them shine as they are 90db sensitivity
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 1:35 PM Post #1,647 of 11,920
Let’s be real here. 1 watt through the Arya and you are at 120 dB. If you own an amp that has 30+ watts to channel into the 48 ohm load, it will still only be running 1 watt to get to 120 dB.
A 120 dB is the threshold of pain and also induces severe hearing damage.

The reality of it is that most of us hardly ever use more than half a watt..and that’s with a thirsty can!
It is impossible to shoot more power into a headphone without raising the volume. In terms of the Arya anything over 1 watt is basically shooting mosquitos with cannonballs imho.
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 2:12 PM Post #1,648 of 11,920
Let’s be real here. 1 watt through the Arya and you are at 120 dB. If you own an amp that has 30+ watts to channel into the 48 ohm load, it will still only be running 1 watt to get to 120 dB.
Hifiman seldom, if ever, publishes their specs with regards to sensitivity at voltage or power, so you can't really use the Arya specs on their store page to plug and chug into that calculator. From measured results (https://www.hifinews.com/content/hifiman-arya-headphones-lab-report), Arya's SPL/V is 103.5dB. Using the measured impedance from the same page, and to get to 120dB, the Arya needs >1.5W.
 
Apr 7, 2020 at 2:29 PM Post #1,649 of 11,920
You’re right but nobody listens to music that loudly:)
Using an electric drill for about an hour unprotected will cause hearing damage, and that’s roughly at 95 dB and via the Arya you need around 10 mW to achieve that.
We only ever need the extreme wattage for torture purposes:p
I was merely trying to introduce some perspective into the thread.
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 8:17 PM Post #1,650 of 11,920
@bidn: Thanks for another great reply; I'll respond to it with the care it deserves when I get the time/energy.

Take a look at Cayin iHA-6 amp, very powerful (both voltage and current) and versatile, also a very fair price.

Oh, believe me, I have been! Thanks for the recommendation.

-------

Ok, so I know I said I wouldn't do this (post any impressions about the Arya until I really grasped its overall sound signature by getting used to it over time), but I can't contain myself. :L3000:

I only got 5-6 hours of sleep last night: I was like a kid waiting for a birthday! The FedEx guy showed up at around noon so luckily I didn't have to wait too long for my present.

I've only been listening a few hours, and I won't go much into the sound quality, but I wanted to quickly describe why I already think this is such a power hungry headphone.

When the Arya came I was resting and debating taking a nap (my significant other could've gotten the door for the signature required if I didn't wake up). So I simply unboxed it meaning to just put it away until I got some rest, but then my excitement overcame my desire for rest, so for the heck of it I decided to quickly try it out on my bedroom setup. I plugged it right into the headphone out on my Node 2i which is very unpowered (it only gets my Sundara's to mid-high volume with the volume at 100%). The Arya's only got to low-mid level volume through that out, and, more importantly, sounded so small, anemic, with such a constrained sound stage and lack of dynamics. Just as expected.

Ok, so I plugged them into my Schiit Asgard 2 which is also in my bedroom setup (having being regulated to a distant 2nd place after my Gilmore Lite Mk2 took over in my main office-study setup). I tried them first on the low gain: wow, had to turn the Schiit up to the 1-2:00 volume position to get a mid-hi volume. Ok, switch to the high gain setting. Well that had the power to drive them well (the Asgard is 1.0W RMS per channel at 32 ohms) with a mid-hi volume right around the halfway (11-12:00) volume position. However, I still think they aren't quite as well driven as they could be via the Asgard. For instance, my Sundara's sound more full and dynamic (even not being the better headphone by far as I already know) on the Asgard, and at the 12:00 position on high gain they are uncomfortably loud...which is why when using them on the Schiit I use the low gain setting.

So by this time I'm fully up and have to eschew sleep to go into my office-study and try out the Ayra's on my main headphone system via computer--->old Cambridge DacMagic--->Gilmore Lite Mk2. This amp seems about as powerful (probably a bit more) as the Asgard and is much better sounding. There is no gain switch and I'm moving the volume between 10-12:00 depending on recording (some are less loud than others of course) to listen at a mid-hi volume (a little louder than normal for "testing" purposes). However, compared to the Sundara's, that's about 3-4 marks on the dial higher than I listen to them to reach the same mid-hi volume.

More importantly I still feel, unless this is how the Arya's just sound, that the sound isn't as full or powerful as it should be, it's a bit lean, even if the volume is high enough to be uncomfortable. Maybe I'm just used to the more congested/rounded/less accurate sound of the Sundara's that are more mid-range centric.

Just first impressions, and I'm very tired so my perception is certainly compromised lol.

An important note: I'm very picky about DR on recordings and look for the highest DR I can get for a recording (I often utilize this great site http://dr.loudness-war.info/ for these purposes), so the perceived loudness (or lack thereof) of an amp is not a matter of the music being mastered overly loud; that can deceive some to think a less powerful amp "gets plenty loud" at a moderate mark on the volume knob if most of what they listen to only has a DR of 3-9 for instance like unfortunately so much pop music since the early 90's has had. (My test tracks have nothing less than a DR of 11 and up to 17).

As for the sound quality overall, despite some slight criticisms I already have that I won't yet mention in order to make sure they are not simply a matter of my being tired/unused to the sound signature (but if they persist then I'll be very interested in what a good EQ, such as the one the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, could do), I'll just say the realism (especially in the sound stage/imaging/separation and special mention to vocal timbre which is simply outstanding) is almost speaker-like, as in life-like, better than I've ever heard from a headphone (the prior best being my old T1's that I recently loaned to an out of state friend indefinitely so I can't compare). Also, this is not a laid back or gentle can; a sense of urgency in the music (especially in vocals) easily comes through when required, they keep up well to some of the fastest music I have (like speed/thrash metal), and aggressive music sounds appropriately so (yet speed and aggressiveness is never overdone) with good guitar bite for instance. Moreover, some tracks (mostly test tracks of mine for SQ and personal favorite reasons) have been simply revelatory.

The best thing I can say right now is that my girlfriend walked in when I was listening, saw that I was visibly emotional, and asked what was wrong expecting me to be, like I am so many days in these terrible times, upset about the recent pandemic death count or some other dismal news. I simply could only stammer that nothing was wrong, that these headphones sound so good that it's just beautiful and I'm very happy.
 

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