[lup1]

Hi all,
After a week of research in the internet i finally found 2 players which seem to fit my needs. I am about to be an owner of shure se535 and thought that i dont want to hear them with anything else than a good DAP. Now my only question is, how good is the resolution, instrument separation in those 2. In every review those players are said to have superb musicality great warm sound, but people keep mentioning that the separation/resolution isnt really that great, and talk about pricey ibasso etc. . But is the resolution really so average or simply it isnt perfect for an audiophile ear. How does it compare to an iphone, and last of all which of those 2 DAPs has more detail in sound. Thanks ;D

 

[uchihaitachi]

Fiio X3 will be more detailed. The Fiio has a very accurate reproduction of music whereas the HM 601 has very steep high frequency roll off.
 
http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/hm601.htm
 
http://www.cdpkorea.com/zboard4/zboard.php?id=cool_review&no=353
 
Fiio X3 beats the HM 601 in every area.
The DX50 might be worth considering however.

 

[lup1]

Ok so i will probably get the fiio x3. But is the sq much better then iphone 4 ? Still buying the fiio though, i cant iphones sound signature

 

[uchihaitachi]

Yup it will definitely be better.

 

[Makiah S]

Really are we pulling DATA only with a Hm 601 vs X3 debate, what utter garbage. SO many ppl say the Hm 601 SOUNDS bad because the data looks bad, well GUESS WHAT guys hifiman tunes their dap's with... hmm EARS :O.
 
I owned the Hm 601 and it was fantastic, yes there is a slight roll off of treble but uhh I never noticed it with my EARS, and mind you I was using Beyer Dynamic Dt 880s and Mr Speakers Mad Dogs at that time
 
I have not heard the X3, but the hifiman has a very nice sound. TIGHT bass, airy highs, great detail throughout the entire sound sig, and those mids! 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/524012/review-hifiman-hm-601 Great review
 
All I can say is I enjoyed the Hm 601 so much I choose not to buy a Dx50 or X3 and instead went for the lovely Hm 801, I own a lot of very neutral cans as well, I enjoy my bright Beyer and Audio Technica Headphones, so it should be noted with Brighter Cans, the magical mids of the Hm 601 pair well with the orgasmic treble of the Beyers, but that aside
 
Let's not dis the sound because the DATA looks bad -.- In addition the Hifiman is also cheaper... by about $60-70 or so dollars [assuming your lovely enough to buy it from our members here at head fi] 
 
In addition detail rentension was wonderful on the hifiman, I heard every details the same as out of my oDac 
 
But again, the Hm 601 is a colored DAP, not by ANY means neutral. So if your going to be using very colored or darker warmer headphones then the X3 will be your friend, but for some one like me who enjoys balance, the hm 601 pair'd nice with my already transparent Beyers and Audio Technica's 
 
But again looking at your Iems, I'd say the X3 would be a better match, but seriously guys unless you've listened to the Hm 601 do NOT bring up data charts and other crap. We have a policy here at head fi, if you've not heard it to not be giving a strong opinion on it -.- and I was "afriad" of how it would sound due to all the Pencil Pushing NUMBER nuts that told me "It looks BAD on paper" so don't knock till you hear it.
 
But in this case, with something that's already got lush mids the Hm 601 might be a tad bit much <3 

 

[noxa]

I currently own the X3 and owned the HM-601, and to be honest they seem to be cut from the same cloth, but for me the 601 was the better sounding player, it just had a certain special character.

 

[uchihaitachi]

Quote:

Really are we pulling DATA only with a Hm 601 vs X3 debate, what utter garbage. SO many ppl say the Hm 601 SOUNDS bad because the data looks bad, well GUESS WHAT guys hifiman tunes their dap's with... hmm EARS :O.
 
I owned the Hm 601 and it was fantastic, yes there is a slight roll off of treble but uhh I never noticed it with my EARS, and mind you I was using Beyer Dynamic Dt 880s and Mr Speakers Mad Dogs at that time
 
I have not heard the X3, but the hifiman has a very nice sound. TIGHT bass, airy highs, great detail throughout the entire sound sig, and those mids! 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/524012/review-hifiman-hm-601 Great review
 
All I can say is I enjoyed the Hm 601 so much I choose not to buy a Dx50 or X3 and instead went for the lovely Hm 801, I own a lot of very neutral cans as well, I enjoy my bright Beyer and Audio Technica Headphones, so it should be noted with Brighter Cans, the magical mids of the Hm 601 pair well with the orgasmic treble of the Beyers, but that aside
 
Let's not dis the sound because the DATA looks bad -.- In addition the Hifiman is also cheaper... by about $60-70 or so dollars [assuming your lovely enough to buy it from our members here at head fi] 
 
In addition detail rentension was wonderful on the hifiman, I heard every details the same as out of my oDac 
 
But again, the Hm 601 is a colored DAP, not by ANY means neutral. So if your going to be using very colored or darker warmer headphones then the X3 will be your friend, but for some one like me who enjoys balance, the hm 601 pair'd nice with my already transparent Beyers and Audio Technica's 
 
But again looking at your Iems, I'd say the X3 would be a better match, but seriously guys unless you've listened to the Hm 601 do NOT bring up data charts and other crap. We have a policy here at head fi, if you've not heard it to not be giving a strong opinion on it -.- and I was "afriad" of how it would sound due to all the Pencil Pushing NUMBER nuts that told me "It looks BAD on paper" so don't knock till you hear it.
 
But in this case, with something that's already got lush mids the Hm 601 might be a tad bit much <3 

Maybe this may be a revolutionary concept for you, but there exists something called EQ.
 
Any respectable audio engineer would tell you that the best basic template for any audio gear would be transparency.
 
Frequency response 20hz to 20 khz +/- 0.1 dB
Distortion at least 100 dB below the music
Noise at least 100 dB below the music
Time based errors-well for digital this is jitter and 100dB rule also applies.
 
Well both the HM601 and HM801 fail in more than one category. Subjective reviews over objective data is what you are insisting and THAT is garbage.
 
There is absolutely no rationale behind purchasing DAPs that fail to even meet the minimum requirements for audible transparency. If however lup 1 wants a hifiman sound out of a Fiio X3, well he could use something called EQ and create artificial roll off. 

 

[uchihaitachi]

Quote:

I currently own the X3 and owned the HM-601, and to be honest they seem to be cut from the same cloth, but for me the 601 was the better sounding player, it just had a certain special character.

I had a 601 in the past which I used to do bunch of tests on. That sound signature you refer to is similar to expensive CD players, emphasised mids rolled off treble.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

I currently own the X3 and owned the HM-601, and to be honest they seem to be cut from the same cloth, but for me the 601 was the better sounding player, it just had a certain special character.

Exactly
Quote:

Maybe this may be a revolutionary concept for you, but there exists something called EQ.
 
Any respectable audio engineer would tell you that the best basic template for any audio gear would be transparency.
 
Frequency response 20hz to 20 khz +/- 0.1 dB
Distortion at least 100 dB below the music
Noise at least 100 dB below the music
Time based errors-well for digital this is jitter and 100dB rule also applies.
 
Well both the HM601 and HM801 fail in more than one category. Subjective reviews over objective data is what you are insisting and THAT is garbage.
 
There is absolutely no rationale behind purchasing DAPs that fail to even meet the minimum requirements for audible transparency. If however lup 1 wants a hifiman sound out of a Fiio X3, well he could use something called EQ and create artificial roll off. 

We have had this conversation before on other threads, there is not an EQ for the sound of the NOS Dac chip in the Hm 601, you seem to know your stuff, you know the limits of a soft ware EQ. I prefer Hard Ware eq over software any day, Each piece of hard ware sounds unique based on it's imperfections, about every Software eq is the same. Your not going to get the hifiman sound by eq'ing a roll off onto the X3... and while I agree transparency is key I like to have transparent headphones
 
In addition you don't listen with your eye's you listen with your ears. Try opening them up and getting your head out of pure data. And honestly, this is a TOTALLY Subjective hobby, there is no data to tell you what will sound good to your ears. And just as Noxa said, there's something to a Hifiman Player that's not been reproduced into eq yet.
 
So I respect Data, I respect Objective information as it's key, but I also like to take a little subjective experince as well. Keep in mind we don't all listen to live organic music in the most ideal circumstances,
 
And the sad reality is, you'll never enjoy a hifiman DAP because your going to be listening for all the flaws that the data show, and weather or not those flaws are actually audible. your going to hear them because you WANT to hear them. I'll take my crappy, poorly built hifiman over what ever crap your listening to any and every day of the week... now that said, when it comes to amplifiers I agree with you 100% I do not like a "colored" amp. I like my amps as colorless and transparent as possible. And with an amplifier I do like to have a little more onjective data than subjective.
 
And as I mentioned before, with headphones that have slighty recessed mids and overly forward treble, the Hifiman daps sound wonderfully real  

 

[uchihaitachi]

Quote:

Exactly
We have had this conversation before on other threads, there is not an EQ for the sound of the NOS Dac chip in the Hm 601, you seem to know your stuff, you know the limits of a soft ware EQ. I prefer Hard Ware eq over software any day, Each piece of hard ware sounds unique based on it's imperfections, about every Software eq is the same. Your not going to get the hifiman sound by eq'ing a roll off onto the X3... and while I agree transparency is key I like to have transparent headphones
 
In addition you don't listen with your eye's you listen with your ears. Try opening them up and getting your head out of pure data. And honestly, this is a TOTALLY Subjective hobby, there is no data to tell you what will sound good to your ears. And just as Noxa said, there's something to a Hifiman Player that's not been reproduced into eq yet.
 
So I respect Data, I respect Objective information as it's key, but I also like to take a little subjective experince as well. Keep in mind we don't all listen to live organic music in the most ideal circumstances,
 
And the sad reality is, you'll never enjoy a hifiman DAP because your going to be listening for all the flaws that the data show, and weather or not those flaws are actually audible. your going to hear them because you WANT to hear them. I'll take my crappy, poorly built hifiman over what ever crap your listening to any and every day of the week... now that said, when it comes to amplifiers I agree with you 100% I do not like a "colored" amp. I like my amps as colorless and transparent as possible. And with an amplifier I do like to have a little more onjective data than subjective.
 
And as I mentioned before, with headphones that have slighty recessed mids and overly forward treble, the Hifiman daps sound wonderfully real  

I don't remember having this conversation with you ever before. I think you greatly underestimate software EQ, of course no EQ will be able to emulate HM's high noise and so on... On a DAP at least, but you can on a PC.
 
The sad reality is, if you bothered to read what I had written, I have had several hifiman products. While I was at MIT, one of my project for an electronics course was to build my own DAP. I DBT'ed a vast range of DAPs on the market in various combinations with EQ on and off and so on. The results were conclusive to objective data even though my experiments were rudimentary at best. But for discussion's sake, Sean Olive of Harman Labs has recently released a lot of new research papers that will repudiate your claim that 'there is no data to tell you what will sound good to your ears'.
 
I don't deny that this is indeed a very subjective hobby, but unfortunately more often than not, that leads to serious overspending of money on products that offer little or no improvements. I mean sound quality aside, you can't deny that HM DAPs have atrocious UI....

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

, you can't deny that HM DAPs have atrocious UI....

it's horrific
 
and I'm happy to hear that science is getting closer to explaining a wide number of things about audio, and I heard bout some of those studies and honestly I'm a fan of discovering passion for my self, I'm not to keen on looking over hard data as a means to enjoyment. But that's completely un related, and a part of my personality. There are things I like to be very objective with, and things I dont. I work with pcs and that is a seriously horrific objective based feild, subjective data is pointless in pcs so I like to have a break for all that data crunching when I get into my audiophila.
 
Still I'd love to build my own Dap and amp as well, I enjoy learning hands on I suppose, and it pisses me off when people who've already been down that path, tell others it's not worth going down. I suppose it's not what your saying that pisses me off but how your saying it, nothing is absoulte with humans, as who of us REALLY understand how we work, how we think ... no one at least not yet 
 
besides your I save my snobbish tone and reason for food and pc debates lol, I like to have a more ignorant and free approach to audio, you know, the just shut up and listen mind set  

 

[uchihaitachi]

Quote:

it's horrific
 
and I'm happy to hear that science is getting closer to explaining a wide number of things about audio, and I heard bout some of those studies and honestly I'm a fan of discovering passion for my self, I'm not to keen on looking over hard data as a means to enjoyment. But that's completely un related, and a part of my personality. There are things I like to be very objective with, and things I dont. I work with pcs and that is a seriously horrific objective based feild, subjective data is pointless in pcs so I like to have a break for all that data crunching when I get into my audiophila.
 
Still I'd love to build my own Dap and amp as well, I enjoy learning hands on I suppose, and it pisses me off when people who've already been down that path, tell others it's not worth going down. I suppose it's not what your saying that pisses me off but how your saying it, nothing is absoulte with humans, as who of us REALLY understand how we work, how we think ... no one at least not yet 
 
besides your I save my snobbish tone and reason for food and pc debates lol, I like to have a more ignorant and free approach to audio, you know, the just shut up and listen mind set  

Well I too had the shut up and listen mind set until I started being a subject in various audio related blind tests... I was so sure of my ears but well...

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Well I too had the shut up and listen mind set until I started being a subject in various audio related blind tests... I was so sure of my ears but well...

seems to take the fun out of it all, yet I guess the end result Blind tests is still thousand dollar elctro stat rigs xD seems we all end up there one way or another 

 

[jrazmar]

So which is which? I have an OK1, a nice sounding earbuds, a lot of potential being 150 ohm, a bit trebly phone. Which one should I pair it with to get the most out of it SQ wise? My budget should be within $250 and I see I could get either the X3 or the 601 LE or Slim. 

 

[lup1]

As far as I could hear both of them sound good with trebly earphones. The differences are subtle and your only concern should be giving those phones enough power. Both of those players have a built-in amplifier and sound great so you shouldnt worry to much ;DD I