Features aside, what's the best DAP you ever experienced in terms of purely sound and as per your own sound preferences?
HiBy R8 User Impressions
- Thread starter Nayparm
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Features aside, what's the best DAP you ever experienced in terms of purely sound and as per your own sound preferences?
AK SP2000
I agree, as far as android DAPs goes this overall is probably the best I have used, and like you said, they all have their shortcomings. I personally think that one that hisses with sensitive IEMs is a really big ”problem“ though. I found the same with the Cayin E02 and to me it just takes away too much from the listening experience. I know some people aren’t sensitive to it, but I am so that’s why I’m sharing all of that so other people out there who dislike hiss know that it’s definitely a thing on the R8 with sensitive IEMS.
For that reason I’m also criticizing it quite heavily, because the Max is $10 cheaper than the R8 or something and is in a different league in terms of SQ. I also find it punching above the SP2000 and it’s almost half the price MSRP. Like you said though, the Max is large and heavy and comes with a slower CPU, most of that doesn’t bother me for daily use so it just comes down to preferences at this point. Regardless, I find most people will really enjoy the R8. So far I’m loving using it, but with how much listening I do with the Erlkonig over my other 2 IEMs I’m not sure if it’ll end up staying or not just yet.
The 3.5mm PO is much more quiet on background noise than the 4.4mm.
mwhals
Headphoneus Supremus
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The hissing is pulling me away from this dap. My two already his with one of my IEMs, so hissing is a deal breaker. I think that leaves Lotoo and AK. Not sure about the Luxury Precision P6, that probably has a black background too.
It’s mainly with the Erlkonig for me, which I have found to hiss on other DAPs too. It’s stupid sensitive for whatever reason /eyeroll
The M5 and A18s are very quiet on 4.4mm out
KevP
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I had the Kann Cube which I really liked sound-wise. I also tried the SP1000M and SA700 (sent them back). A&K really need to get their act together on Android user experience when streaming. The hoops you have to go through to download eg Tidal and then have to keep it up to date manually, are clunky and way below what you should expect for the money.
The R8 user experience is fantastic. Everything just works. And that’s with a firmware version still in its infancy. It can only get better.
As for sound, it’s growing on me and, as usual, who know whether that’s burn-in or my brain/ears adapting?
I was on the verge of returning the R8 due to distracting hiss issues on violin tracks. However I discovered using the 3.5 mm output for EE Odins greatly reduced the hiss to levels I find not detracting from listening to classical music.
From this point forward I will use 3.5 for iems (Odin and Luna) and use 4.4 for full size headphones.
From this point forward I will use 3.5 for iems (Odin and Luna) and use 4.4 for full size headphones.
Yep the 3.5mm out greatly reduces the background hiss. I’m still unsure I’ll be keeping mine yet though.
Turbo is like the over-ear mode mode of M15 and it is not meant to be used for high sensitivity IEMs but full sized HPs. I don't even have fancy balanced cables for my A18t, as a 7 ohms IEM is not meant to be driven from balanced outputs, let alone high(er) gain modes.
MAX might sound good for a DAP, but iBasso as a company has proven to be incompetent in dealing with customers. iBasso just keeps saying "enjoy the music", keeps throwing infront of us the same crappy software platform they have been using in the last 4-5 years. They didn't even bother to clean up their menus. I know about the difficulties of acquiring a new hardware platform, but they should be at least able to open to answer questions that are honestly asked and not really criticising them but trying to understand what the hell is going on. iBasso prefers to chicken away. If they weren't at least able to achieve that in sound quality (with that much of space), they would just be worse than amateurs in my eyes, with the incompetencies they show in other areas.
If you are OK with carrying around such a brick and enjoying, then it is good for you. But instead of such a Frankenstein's monster, I would rather go with a proper desktop device.
Just tried this track on the R6 Pro with the Tia Trio. Can't hear any hiss - though if I really strain, maybe the very faintest hiss. Sometimes I find this type of 'hiss' is in the recording, or added in post, like an analogue filter (or when I add a touch of grain in photos in Lightroom to make them feel more 'organic). Not sure if that's the case here, it doesn't appear to be, but you never know. Listen to the intro of Case/Lang/Veirs 'Down i5' if you want to hear hiss - though I'm quite sure that's done on purpose. I can't imagine the R8 would have more hiss than the R6 Pro (which is silent with my IEMs), especially since HiBy were marketing the lower noise floor of the R8 as a feature.
How would you define the AK house sound? What are its standout characteristics?
This is a big thing. Whenever I read a review that says 'just be aware this dap will hiss with Andromeda' I roll my eyes because a) the Andromeda will hiss just being out in the sun without a cable and b) I wish people would stop using the Andromeda (and likewise ultra sensitive IEMs) to test for hiss. I also don't quite get the point of ultra sensitive IEMs - they're usually very expensive, which would suggest they will be powered off a decent source, and most decent sources are going to be powerful.
This would be unacceptable to me as I run everything balanced. It's like buying a Ferrari and limiting it to 3 gears.
Goes back to my earlier point: I will not tolerate poor UI, performance or software in a DAP that costs more than a high-end all-in-one desktop source or a super-high-end desktop amp. If you're buying something purely for SQ and it's going to sit on a desk anyway, why pay out the nose when so much better is available for so much less? (Case in point, an RME ADI-2 Pro FS will leave you with plenty of change compared to one of these DAPs, and blow them away in performance). As consumers with means, we should not stand for, or support, poor design.
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I personally don't consider the R8 mid-tier. Once you go last $1500 that's very much high-end, unless you mean the mid-tier if high-end DAPs. I think the uber tier DAPs are way overpriced for what you're getting, and the R8 blows all of them away in terms of features and processing performance.
davidmolliere
Headphoneus Supremus
I'll jump in since I have tried hard to love AK DAPs but it never did it for me.... last I tried was SE200 and neither output changes things for me. There is something I find a bit artificial to the AK DAPs and that includes SP1000 (granted with the SP1000 amp things are much better). I see why people love it, but upper treble presence is overemphasized to me, this feels like a trick to lift resolution and depending on the IEM / headphone it feels way over the top (to me) and that's accentuated by the treble note weight. This is something the LPGT doesn't do, it's just as extended there but the presence is spot on and it's a much more transparent and balanced signature. Think HDR (AK) vs low key (LPGT) in photography. Bass is north of neutral as well in AK DAPs but that's less of an issue as it's more subtle. In a different way, my WM1Z was even less transparent but I liked the emphasis it put and how it delivered the HDR-ish presentation.
Now problem with those DAPs is pairings can be hit or miss really fast, IMHO, unless your personal preferences work with that "emphasized" signature. It's a good thing people hear the R8 as fairly balanced with a natural presentation.
People I know who love AK DAP usually place detail retrieval high on their list, personally each time with an AK DAP I find the upper treble emphasis to bring detail forward too much and it distracts me from the music a lot of times. The only AK DAP I liked better in that respect is the SA700, I found it much more engaging and balanced.
I would certainly be weary of thinking tier equals price indeed... AK in particular is nuts on price... I personally didn't pay full price for the LPGT (and wouldn't have), although it has this exceptional transparency that I have yet to find elsewhere. It's a perfect reviewer's tool if only it featured streaming and I didn't need to stack with my phone using USB DAC I wouldn't even look at any other DAP.
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Thanks David, that makes perfect sense and is basically what I assumed already. It seems the uber-high-end gear like A&K Ultima (and on the desktop devices like Hugo2) are favoured and hyped by those that have a particular affinity for TOO MUCH DETAIL (emphasis intended because that's also how I hear too much detail). Same goes for IEMs and headphones - more detail is always considered 'better' without taking into account that more details with alot of music will actually make the music sound worse. I get the point that you're paying a massive premium for 'the last 5 percent' - this is not unique to audio, same goes for photography (my profession) where a lens with 5 percent extra resolution costs twice as much as the next tier down.
If like me you prefer a more balanced, and often laid back, smoother or warmer sound, you're in luck, because it seems sources and IEMs/headphones that cater for this preference are considered 'flawed' by the audiophile elite and priced lower as a result.
Edit: I just thought of another photography analogy. Makes me laugh whenever I see images captured with super-high-end cameras and lenses that have then been edited with extra grain and obvious vignetting - the so-called 'artefacts' you're paying top dollar to avoid.
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