Hi-Res Audio, DSD and placebo effect??

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by goyete, Nov 29, 2016.
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  1. ev13wt
    People didn't notice the the digicam pixel wars.

    They don't care. They see big stair steps and small ones. The end.

    And analog is better.

    Logical, but false.
  2. bigshot
    You know an SACD or blu-ray disc looks to the eye the same as a DVD or CD. Just slap that hiresolution logo on the cover and double the price and it will provide all the placebo effect that all that extra bit depth provides. It might also help to have a special blue light on the player to light up when that particular disc is playing.
    ev13wt likes this.
  3. 71 dB
    Well, there are multichannel formats and stereo formats. I like SACD for 5.1 or 5.0 sound plus those discs are well produced so that even the redbook stereo downmix is great. Even my headphones benefit from multichannel sound be it SACD or movie soundtrack or whatever, because I can downmix them to "matrix" Lt/Rt stereo and cross-feed for headphones. It creates more natural spatial information and strong "out-of-head" sound. So, there are real benefits (multichannel sound + motivation to record and produce well), not only placebo effects.

    My SACDs don't have hiresolution logo on them and the price is recular CD price. They are mostly from BIS and CPO. While I get your point, I think you attitude is a bit too negative.
    ev13wt likes this.
  4. bigshot
    You've had better luck with multichannel SACDs than I have. I find that the selection of music is very limited (basically 70s-80s dinosaur rock and classical) and the quality of the mixes is wildly inconsistent. About 1/4 of the SACDs I buy have great mixes. Half are so so. 1/4 are really bad. The worst are the half hearted recycled quad masters from the 70s.

    I was actually referring to two channel SACDs above though. There isn't much point to that.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  5. RRod
    Gah, I can't STAND stereo-only SACDs. Talk about not seeing the trees in the forest!
  6. bigshot
    The worst is when they release the album with a multichannel mix, and then let it go out of print. Then a year or two later they release it again with an identical cover, but without the multichannel mix.
  7. 71 dB
    I think my oldest SACD recording was done in 2002 (Schubert's lieder with orchestra, Chamber Orchestra of Europe / Claudio Abbado on Deutsche Grammophon). Another early disc is Martin Fröst playing Mozart's Clarinet Concerto & Quintet on BIS.

    I don't know if it's "luck" rather than figuring out what kind of material benefits from SACD format. Dinosaur rock wasn't recorded SACD in mind, so how could it be great material for it? I recommend classical music recorded over the last 15 years. No studio recordings, but acoustic music recorded on real acoustic environments (organ music recorded in churches really shine on multichannel SACD!)

    I agree that stereo only SACDs offer technically nothing compared to CDs. I think ALL of my SACDs are hybric multichannel + stereo + CD discs.
  8. bigshot
    I actually find a lot more interesting multichannel music on video blu-ray than I do on SACD, DVD-A and BR-A combined. Opera and live concerts are great on a big projection screen with multichannel sound.
    ev13wt likes this.
  9. 71 dB
    Yeah, I have some operas and other stuff such as Neil Cowley Trio's concert on Blu-ray. However, my Blu-rays are mostly movies and TV shows.
  10. bigshot
    There are thousands of concerts, operas, recitals and music video blu-rays. I have a whole cabinet full of them. Some are absolutely amazing, like Losey's Don Giovanni, Beatles 1+, Rolling Stones Live At The Max, Karajan in two films by Clouzot, Mehta's Valencia Ring Cycle, Frank Zappa Live At The Roxy, Ray Charles Live At Montreaux, Prince Sign O The Times, Lee Ridenour Overtime, Mozart's Last 8 Piano Concertos by Barenboim, Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet by the Royal Ballet, etc etc etc. And that's not even counting multichannel DVDs. The range of quality music is much broader on blu-ray than on audio only high res formats.
  11. 71 dB
    So, is your point that SACD is pointless because there are 1000 operas on Blu-ray? Even if there where a million, I would still enjoy my SACDs.
  12. bigshot
    My point is that the selection of music on SACD is much more limited than on blu-ray video. There are some good multichannel SACDs to be sure, but not nearly as many as there are good blu-ray videos with surround music. The mix quality on blu-ray is much more consistent too. The visuals are an added bonus.

    I'm really indifferent to formats as long as the work and they are high fidelity. I'm much more interested in music.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  13. reginalb
    You'd better inform everyone that produces remaster after remaster on CD, and available in various streaming formats at low-rez like 320k MP3 or 256k AAC.
  14. 71 dB
    I have 50-60 SACDs in my collection. Recordings I want happen to be hybrid SACDs sometimes, which is nice.

    Maybe I haven't discovered all the music Blu-rays, because the selection doesn't seem that massive to me. I have some opera Blu-rays + some pop music Blu-rays. I have music DVDs and haven't bothered to upgade them to Blu-rays, because the cost of doing so is usually painful. Opera Blu-rays aren't cheap. Outside classical music, not much of my favorite music seems to be available on Blu-ray. Maybe I am just unaware of the releases? Is it rock that is out on Blu-ray so well? I am not a rock-guy. I like some groups, but most of the "big names" don't appeal to me. My favorite rock group King Crimson doesn't have Blu-rays to my knowledge. My taste is a bit niche, so releasing my favorite music on Blu-ray is risky to say the least. However, niche staff does appear on SACD in the form of obscure baroque organ music for example.

    Amazon.co.uk has 3642 classical SACDs listed and 2409 music Blu-rays. So, I woudn't say the selection of music on SACD is much more limited than on blu-ray video. In fact, it seems to be ~50 % larger!

    I think ALL of my SACDs are very good, but they are "modern" recordings done during the last 15 years.

  15. Whazzzup
    who buys cd, blue rays so 80-90's
    ev13wt likes this.
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