[bigshot]

"Dumb" is willful ignorance. I've seen that in audiophiles. When the information is in front of you and you refuse to consider it, that is dumb.

 

[music_man]

I guess I misunderstood the meaning. my bad.

 

[71 dB]

I was joking. The notion one is "dumb" because they do not know "everything" is absurd. I am not even going to entertain this further.

There's semantic difference between someone being dumb and someone being dumb about something. Einstein wasn't dumb. He was a genius, but I suppose he was dumb about fashion for example. It's healthy to acknowledge that everyone is dumb about some things, even Einstein, but some people are also dumb meaning those people don't wise up when exposed to wisdom.

Knowing "everything" has become humanly impossible centuries ago, because there's far too much knowledge to absorb within a lifetime. So, being dumb about many things is a fact of life and instead of worrying about that, we should concentrate on not being dumb.

 

[music_man]

The thing is you did not qualify that. I would completely agree with the above statement however. That makes sense but I guess I misunderstood you. I would not use the moniker "dumb" but rather lack of knowledge in such cases. Even though it does not roll off the tongue as well. In modern times for instance I would say Neil Degrasse Tyson "knows enough". There is a big difference between knowledge and intelligence. You can be very well read and I highly recommend that but only your IQ can make you "smart". Therefore most people are in fact dumb but in a different way than you explain.

I think it is potential, not learning that would make one a genius. I guess we have different ideas about what makes one dumb but we agree that it is generally so. Faulting Albert Einstein on his lack of fashion, everyone should have such problems. A heck of a lot of people certainly are not dumb by any standard but they are not gifted either. Those with either a super high IQ or are well read I maintain are a relative minority. Sure, there may be 10 million smart people but look at the population in comparison. I agree with you, just not in the verbiage. My fashion sucks as well but by choice. I have a closet full of Bespoke Armani suits. Perhaps Einstein could not have been bothered by such menial things. I don't know of course.

I think I am well rounded but by your definition still dumb. I just have a different understanding of what dumb pertains to. Rather IQ and not learned subjects. You cannot change your IQ but you can always learn more. Nonetheless most people choose not to anyways. No doubt learning will go a long way. You would not be learning if your IQ was 40 in the first place. I just do not see being dumb as not being book smart. I feel the lack thereof is due to born abilities. If not being dumb was due to learned information then everyone could be relatively smart. Regardless, the vast majority are not anyways. I guess we do agree, I just add a qualification. Which incidentally one cannot change.

I do agree that in our case believing in Audiophile Snake oil is a major issue. One people will argue to the ground. This is both a lack of knowledge and a non understanding of the applied science involved. I do not fault people for this however. For one thing there is no harm in people partaking in such. I do find it annoying with those that argue the merits of this to no end. It depends if you base your feelings on science or emotions. I suppose you would consider basing a conclusion off of emotions is in fact very dumb. I sort of agree, but again there is no harm in it. Just please do not insist that one knows what they are talking about. That, instead makes one look like a fool if not dumb. Hence Fools gold being another term for Snake oil. TBH, even though I have a very good grasp of science I enjoy a big fat cable. Guilty pleasures I guess. At least I know anything it does is placebo. Okay, here go the arguments!

 

[71 dB]

1. The thing is you did not qualify that.

2. There is a big difference between knowledge and intelligence. You can be very well read and I highly recommend that but only your IQ can make you "smart". Therefore most people are in fact dumb but in a different way than you explain.

3. I think it is potential, not learning that would make one a genius.

1. Sorry about that. Hopefully it's clear now.
2. High IQ just means you do better in IQ tests than most. It's where we put the line separating smart and dumb people that counts. Most people are really smart compared chimpanzees.
3. Geniuses can combine knowledge and understanding in ways "normal" people can't to come up with new surprising results. So, yes it's about potential.

 

[gregorio]

Einstein wasn't dumb. He was a genius, but I suppose he was dumb about fashion for example.

I've got a better one, how about: Einstein was a genius theoretical physicist AND he was a dumb theoretical physicist. His work on Relativity was genius and the reason he's being used as an example here is because he's one of the most recognised geniuses of all time. On the other hand, he (wrongly) argued against certain fundamental aspects of quantum mechanics AND continued to do so even when those aspects were fairly well understood and widely accepted (by the theoretical physics community). ...

The notion one is "dumb" because they do not know "everything" is absurd. ...
This is both a lack of knowledge and a non understanding of the applied science involved.

It's not really about knowledge and non-understanding of science. Most commonly, the disputes with audiophiles come down to a level of knowledge that any averagely educated child should have, plus a little simple logic. That's why we can't call Einstein dumb (as I did above), because despite the fact that he spent so much time and effort on incorrect/wrong arguments, one has to have a far higher than average knowledge and be pretty smart to even understand his arguments, let alone evaluate why they were wrong. But, this is NOT the case with many audiophile myths, for example: All digital data (inc., digital audio) is just zero's and one's, if expensive "audiophile grade" wires/cables were required to maintain the integrity of those zero's and one's during transfer then either no consumer digital device would ever work or they'd all have to be hundreds of times more expensive, and in either case the "digital revolution" would never have occurred. It doesn't take any great knowledge or "understanding of the applied science involved" to appreciate this simple fact, just a few pieces of information a child should know and some very simple logic. It certainly does not require knowing "everything"!

Of course, the situation facing audiophiles is not that simple, because in order to sell audiophile grade digital cables manufacturers/retailers have to obfuscate "this simple fact" and they do that by perverting the science (employing pseudo-science). This is where we typically run into difficulties, we typically attempt to demonstrate that the claims must be nonsense because they are based on pseudo/perverted science and not the actual science/facts. This is a difficulty because now we have an argument which requires not only significant specific knowledge across a number of specialist fields (for example; USB and other audio data transfer protocols, information theory, power handling and noise suppression, etc.) but also a decent understanding of science/s itself (for example; the scientific method, the science of measurements and statistics, psycho-acoustics, etc.). Audiophiles are not "dumb" because they don't have all this required knowledge and understanding, that's just ignorance and we all suffer from ignorance at some level. They're not "dumb" because they don't know everything, they're "dumb" because not only are they ignoring the information a child should know + simple logic but have allowed themselves to be so "obfuscated" that they'll actually fight vehemently against it!

G

 

[71 dB]

I've got a better one, how about: Einstein was a genius theoretical physicist AND he was a dumb theoretical physicist. His work on Relativity was genius and the reason he's being used as an example here is because he's one of the most recognised geniuses of all time. On the other hand, he (wrongly) argued against certain fundamental aspects of quantum mechanics AND continued to do so even when those aspects were fairly well understood and widely accepted (by the theoretical physics community). ...
G

Althou Einstein was wrong with his opinions about quantum mechanics, we have to keep in mind those theories were quite new and controversal at the time. His opinions were rooted on deep understanding of physics. His opinions weren't dumb. He could make sophisticated arguments for his beliefs, be critical. Being dumb and being wrong isn't the same thing.

 

[castleofargh]

so to conclude, Einstein was a genius and he never used CDs or SACD. so we can confidently assume that the seller on his website(OP's link)is right, vinyl is the best.


flawless logic wins again.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

so to conclude, Einstein was a genius and he never used CDs or SACD. so we can confidently assume that the seller on his website(OP's link)is right, vinyl is the best.


flawless logic wins again.

I think i just peed a little

 

[bigshot]

Einstein probably listened to 78s. So shellac is best.

 

[music_man]

I fully agree with all of you. However I point one thing out you already did anyways. Quantum Mechanics at the time of Einsten was very new and not even often subscribed to. So he was kind of up against a brick wall. Later that his theories were negated is more of a progression of Humanity than Einstein's fault. Indeed he argued he was right. Just as audiophiles do. however what he was wrong about was not like we later thought he was a fool. No, years later as also mentioned he is probably the most well known and ground breaking. Of course others mainly get over looked, Bell, Tesla, Franklin. ETC. However, of course today all of them have been proven wrong in some way. We, as a people have progressed. Not everyone mind you but the few great minds at work are carrying us all. This is not political but firing every scientist in the hopes of a few coal jobs will hopefully soon to be reversed. Those few great minds shall carry us into the future.

I am a very seasoned Audio Engineer and Recording Engineer plus EE I do not use much. So a scientist of sorts. I know Damn well about these Audio shenanigans but for some reason I am compelled to buy the most absurd things. I know they do nothing and if anything, harm but I just enjoy shopping for this stuff. Kind of like Woman and shoes and I mean no offense there, not all Woman okay. The point is I can at least separate my enjoyment from reality. It just gets me off for some odd reason. It is like a curse because I am compelled to buy these items knowing at worst they are an electrical hazard. At best they are the same as their $5 counterparts. I will say speakers, headphones and to some extent amps/dacs have much different sounds. The wires do not. I hope anyone really wondering this sees this thread. Up to you, like myself. However let it be known from a well respected Engineer of over 40 years that if in fact you do hear a difference it is placebo. It is funny to watch the other forums think the most absurd things have an effect on the quality of the audio. for instance USB cleaners. Any modern dac either reclocks the signal or uses oversampling so they are a complete waste. I could go on and on. Still, I feel I must buy these things. For the life of me I do not know why. It is kind of like flirting with Taboo, exciting!

 

[bigshot]

You don't have to be Einstein to discern snake oil.

 

[skwoodwiva]

Dis away, the Arcam is a great player I demo'ed one it was on par w/ the Sony dvps9000 as a transport, and a good tubed DAC in '94.
The Sony edged it out in sound stage. Some "fone" brand CDs was/is the gold sandard for that.

 

[bigshot]

You don't have to be Einstein to discern snake oil.

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I was wrong about this...

 

[castleofargh]

I had left some political posts be, that's on me I guess. @Andrew LB, report political content and it will always be removed by a modo because the TOS say so. do not post your political views in response!
I've removed all concerned posts(I think).