[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Classical Music often has a much better dynamic range I have measured genuine 50 - 60 db ranges from bog-standard Classical CDs.

I'd imagine that'd be the case, being 'classical' means its possibly old.

 

[wavoman]

Rob -- Don't fail to audition the Nagra CDC (which you mentioned earlier in the thread), the all-in-one unit (transport, pre-amp, and headphone amp). I did, and was blown away. The headphone amp is not an afterthought like on some (even high-end) pre-amps. Just plug in your favorite SE HP and you are in sonic heaven. Nagra engineers actually prefer SE to Balanced (I've been having email chats with some Nagra folks on these issues).

OK, now let me try a theoretical argument that I know is going to ignite controversy: I can make the case that the DAC and transport should be tightly integrated, designed together. Here goes --

The bitstream of discrete, quantized values has to be turned into an analog continuous curve to make sound waves at some point, so you are going to be interpolating somewhere. You can upsample in the digital domain (the DAC now fills in smaller gaps, but some of the data is made up, i.e, interpolated), or let the DAC fill in larger gaps ... your choice. But you better have a firm grasp on who is doing what, or you court danger. This is why some people think 8x oversampling CD players smear the sound ... the DAC they are using does not necessarily handle this well. I want one engineer to think thru the whole signal chain for me.

And of course everyone agrees that the signal chain should be as short as possible, so put the pre-amp right in the chassis with the DAC, and the HP amp too. That's what Nagra did.

Of course this is just theory, but listen to it with Japanese CDs and German HPs and it's, well, wow!

If only I could afford it. But we all have to dream, and it's in your stated budget.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, now let me try a theoretical argument that I know is going to ignite controversy: I can make the case that the DAC and transport should be tightly integrated, designed together. Here goes --

Totally agree, to some extent my twinned DAC/Amp is probably superior to a $1000 component stereo.

Precisely why I got them, in a pair for the cheaper to fix angle.

 

[Rob N]

Slight change of plan.The Dirondo demo unit isn't currently available so I'm getting the 2 box Dirondo Drive & DAC to try for about 2wks

 

[Karo]

Made to order .....

Pink Faun high-end Audio

 

[fkclo]

This is on my hit list for a long term. Waiting for its release of USB DAC module.

Most likely one of the best value DIY high-end CD Player for red book CDs. Not cheap though.

DIY CD Player

Any one have heard this ? Impressions and comparisions with other contenders most welcome here

F. Lo

 

[AudioCats]

very interesting thread!

I especially like the PinkFaun, using tons of zeners for power supply regulation, brilliant!

 

[nae45ro]

Very nice the PinkFaun but I would worry about the dust

 

[Jolida302]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob N /img/forum/go_quote.gif Price upto around £9000,would prefer a single box player,smooth sound Any suggestions?

What about a Linn CD12 on second hand?

 

[Karo]

Glad you guys liked it. I was surprised it wasn't on here. This is my favorite part .....

Pink Faun high-end Audio

"Hello ! I am Mattijs. " He's very earnest, then he mentions what he is studying. He's right outside Nijmegen, which is not only the oldest city in the Netherlands, but also where the Van Halens' are from.

It's a very singular unit, my fave. I wouldn't worry about dust man ! (

)

 

[blem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavoman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rob -- Don't fail to audition the Nagra CDC (which you mentioned earlier in the thread), the all-in-one unit (transport, pre-amp, and headphone amp). I did, and was blown away. The headphone amp is not an afterthought like on some (even high-end) pre-amps. Just plug in your favorite SE HP and you are in sonic heaven. Nagra engineers actually prefer SE to Balanced (I've been having email chats with some Nagra folks on these issues).

The SQ of the headphone out of the CDC is not very good. Also, for use with a headphone amp, I would recommend the CDP player over the CDC.

 

[Rob N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blem /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SQ of the headphone out of the CDC is not very good. Also, for use with a headphone amp, I would recommend the CDP player over the CDC.

What do you think of the overall quality of the CDP/CDC sound?

 

[wavoman]

blem -- that is really interesting and important feedback re Nagra. The reviewers did not mention SQ from the HP jack, but I did a brief listen at a dealer and liked it ... loved it actually -- too brief, I guess! [Used stock Senn 650's].

What HP's did you test it with? I did talk to the US rep, who stressed Nagra was serious about the HP stage ... I guess he would say that, but he volunteered it actually, I didn't ask.

Is the output of the CDP from the DAC different from that on the CDC? I was thinking that I should get the CDC, and then I have my choice -- built in HP amp (SE only) or connect into a HP Amp, which could be Balanced or SE, although again the Nagra man suggested SE.

Looks like I was wrong -- please give more details and thoughts!! There's a lot of money on the line here, and you appear to be ahead of us on this one.

Thanks!

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not starting an argument, but aren't new CDs possibly a flawed audio source...what with engineers messing with the loudness. Wouldn't playing that through a fantabulous CDP, be a bit like polishing a turd? So would you be forced to play old CDs with a frequency response or HR CDs to get any advantage? ^ Obviously folks w/$10,000 CDPs can, but I can't imagine there is a huge selection? Do not buy Hi-Res albums, so maybe there is now?

You have to be smart about it. Rule out any pop music mastered or remastered after 1995. There still some junk prior to this. Get an account on the Demon and try before you buy. The are lots of good CD's that are mastered properly but they are a bit like finding a needle in a haystack. No-noise is another sonic killer you have to watch for.

That said if you are listening to top40 within the last decade it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to invest more that $50 on a CDP.

 

[TheAttorney]

Having owned a Nagra CDC for a year now, I was hoping my first ever forum post would be an informative and witty review of the little beast. But it sounds like you need an answer sooner than that. So here goes on the specific question:

The CDC is exactly a CDP, but with a preamp section grafted at the end. This gives much greater versatility, but at the expense of a slight drop in sound quality. The Nagras were so rare I could never compare both side by side.

Whether the SQ is important to you depends on your partnering equipment. One way of looking at it is that there is just over £1k’s worth of preamp in the CDC, which compares favourably with external preamps in the same price bracket. But it won’t match more expensive preamps. I can hear the sound quality of the CDC drop as the volume control is reduced. It’s not unpleasant, but just gradually softens up the dynamics and 3D soundstage. This is partly because the CDC is fundamentally so transparent that it’s easier to spot, but it does indicate that the preamp section has limitations.

That limitation can be reduced by maxing the CDC’s volume control and feeding a posh external preamp. This will bring it’s sound quality closer to the CDP, but probably not quite matching it. Sadly, there is no direct by-pass option on the CDC. Santa take note!

Perspective time: I auditioned the CDC against the highly regarded Accuphase 78. The CDC’s volume was set to -5db to match levels and both players fed a high quality Spectral preamp. Even with “the limitation”, the CDC won easily.

I personally value the versatility of the CDC over the potentially slightly higher sound quality of it’s cheaper brother. The CDC has a very good headphone socket that’s better than mid-range external head amps (I haven’t tried the super maxxed, extreme kind). I'd say live with it for a while, then compare with a top end HP amp. At least you have the choice.

Finally, when I’m spending an obscene amount of money on a tiny little box, my heart starts ruling my head. With the asymmetrical dials and the all important modulometer, the CDC had my name on it from the start. I’ve never seen a CDP in real life, but from the photos, it’s at risk of looking a touch bland. But fair enough if you prefer minimalist over lab-chic.

Richard

PS. The balanced section is grafted onto an inherently SE configuration. So SE should be better and I only have SE cables anyway, so haven't compared. Others have said that balanced is just fine too. I use SE to drive a Stax Omega setup.