[alexeyi]

@earmonger: thanks for the hint about the Audio Technica. It seems like an interesting option. After reading a few reviews the only problem / disadvantage I can come up with is its earcup and headband size: I guess I have a larger head size, and earcups and headband for the AT seem to be on the smaller size, compared to the other makes. Would this be a big deal you think?

I would prefer to try them out in a real shop, but after some online searching I didn't manage to find them in a not too far distanced shop. Would it be silly to just make a decision based on online reviews and buy it online without having tested and compared it yourself?

Maybe you can try to find a retailer that offers the possibility of return in a defined period of time. This way, if you don't like the product, you just send it back.
If you decide to go for ATH-R70x, you get the best performance form the beginning since it is a headphone that does not require a burn-in time to deliver the best quality.

Personally I'll choose Sennheiser, because of past experiences with the brand(I used to own 3 different models in the past) and I've got a new 660S for my office use not so long ago and I am extremely satisfied by all of them.

 

[earmonger]

The headband opening stretches to 8-1/2 inches. I doubt your head is that wide. The little wing things, not the band, actually sit on top of your head--they are on springs and they feel weightless. I know some reviews have complained about small earcups but the inside diameter is 2-3/4 inches and the outside of the cushions end at 3-3/4 inches. Part of the cushions sit on my ears, but the clamping force is very light; I wear them with glasses. They are more comfortable than my Grados, which have the same sized cushions.

Pro-audio stores often have Audio-Technica because they are made for studio engineers. Here in the US there are stores like Sweetwater and Full Compass; there must also be musicians' stores in Europe. See if you can find one with free returns. Then you can try them on your own system.

You won't be able to deafen yourself with these coming out of the MacBook Air, but I just tried some Mastodon and at 12/15 (Mac volume) it was as loud as I'd want.

 

[silvershadelynx]

thanks for your replies! Although the Audio Technica looks interesting, I did some further "reseach" and found the Hifiman HE400SE. Would this headphone an good option as well? I never considered Hifiman headphones because I've read about quality control / durability issues and channel imbalance problems? But the article below is rather positive about this affordable headphone:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-he400se-review-headphone.28771/

Any suggestions about durability and build quality compared to the Audio Technica?

 

[silvershadelynx]

Hi again, after some thinking I decided to order the ATH-R70x. I didn't try them before buying, but it seems to have many reviews / opinions which tell me about their neutral and smooth sound.

 

[earmonger]

The broad consensus on the ATH-R70X is what convinced me, too--and I think you'll find yourself joining it. Congrats.

 

[silvershadelynx]

The broad consensus on the ATH-R70X is what convinced me, too--and I think you'll find yourself joining it. Congrats.

Thanks, I will keep you informed about my subjective findings...

 

[silvershadelynx]

Hi, yesterday I received the new ATH-R70X. I connected it to my laptop (MacBook Air) and listened some music on youtube, at high quality. I was surprised how uninspiring and lifeless the new headphone sounded. I compared it to my 5 - 10 euro headphone and I didn't hear much difference - some music sounded even a little bit better on the cheap headphones!

Tonight I compared them to the Bose headphone of my girlfriend and I find both the Bose and my cheap headphone better than the Audio Technica. My girlfriend tried some high res tracks (Scriabin / piano) and she found the Audio Technica better than the cheap headphone, but not as good as the Bose when it comes to overall sound quality. She prefers the bass of the AT to the Bose: the Bose has too much bass energy. The Bose was somewhere around 200 euro's (and has noise cancelling, wired).

All headphones sound much worse compared to both my DIY full range electrostatic loudspeakers and DIY transmissionline 2 way loudspeakers.

I'm doubting if things will improve much when the AT is powered by a dedicated headphone amp which has more power than my laptop. The AT isn't clipping at all and it can play loud enough when powered by my laptop...

I will return the headphone as I don't enjoy it's sound at all. It sounds flat and lifeless to my taste. I didn't expect to have such a different opinion than all owners that report such positive experiences...

 

[earmonger]

Very, sincerely, sorry if I steered you wrong.

Still, you might want to give the trial a little more time (though don't miss the return window!).

Your budget headphones (probably) and the Bose (definitely) are both bass-boosted and maybe a little rolled off up top, and those are the signatures your ears have gotten used to. You did mention wanting a neutral signature, and the ATH-R70X is designed for that (though there's some bass boost), which should be closer to the actual recording.

It could initially sound boring because you're used to a souped-up, less dispassionate sound, and the new 'phones may well be very different. We are creatures of habit. But also, play a complicated track and listen for details and clarity of individual instruments. The ATH-R70X doesn't pump things up, the way some phones pump up vocals or bass, but lo and behold, everything is there, and to me it's calmly exposed for closer examination.

Try this perceptual test tone through new and old phones.
https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_perceptualsinesweep.php

And try the logarithmic sine test tone here (the linear one goes by way too fast):
https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_sinesweep20-20k.php

It will show you where the peaks and valleys of your phones are, and give you an idea of which is more accurate.
With the logarithmic sine sweep, I hear a couple of peaks in the upper frequencies of the ATH-R70X, so it's not perfectly neutral either.

Again, everybody's tastes are different, and apologies if the ATH-R70X isn't for you. You might well have the same reaction to the Sennheiser HD600.

 

[silvershadelynx]

@earmonger: no problem at all and thanks for your message! It was my own decision after reading many user opinions to order this headphone. Maybe I should have had a bit more patience and visit a physical audio shop instead. (which unfortunately isn't possible at the moment here because of a lock down)

I will try the frequency sweep and compare each of the three headphones here. I realize that I have some experience and tools to measure loudspeakers, like my own electrostatic loudspeakers which are DIY. So I own a callibrated microphone and have REW installed on my laptop. I will measure, just for fun, all three headphones.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[cinisi]

There's a senn hd 800 on Marktplaats now. Maybe you can audition these? Bidding starts top of your budget at 600.. just wanted to inform

Sennheiser HD 800
€ 625,00
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m179435...ium=android_social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons

 

[silvershadelynx]

@cinisi: thanks for the hint!

I did a lot of listening today, comparing the three headphones. It seems that my opinion has changed: I'm rather sure that I dislike the sound of the Bose: it sounds too coloured to my taste, a bit 'dirty'. Don't know how to describe it from a frequency point of view.

So right now the comparison is between the cheap 5 - 10 euro headphone which was bought at a Tiger shop (Danish shop that sells all kind of stuff) and the Audio Technica. I tend to start to think that the AT sounds better, but I have to take quite some time and energy to get this clear. At least the Tiger headphone has the best price / quality ratio: it delivers much more quality than I would have expected. But my opinion about comfort level has changed as well: I start to prefer the bigger earpads of the AT as these touch the area around my ears rather than the small earpads of the Tiger phone which touch the ears themselves.

So I keep making comparisons and take some more time to decide what to do.

 

[earmonger]

Here's an analogy. Someone in my family automatically reaches for the salt no matter what's for dinner; they think the food is tasteless if it's not super salty. That's like the kind of coloration some 'phones add to compensate for lack of real accuracy. But if that relative were to go for a while without adding all that salt, they'd come to recognize all the other flavors in the food that were getting overwhelmed by the salt: herbs, sweetness, umami.

If you have time before the return period ends, I'd suggest listening to the ATH-R70X on their own for a while, or maybe just by comparison to your electrostatic speakers (wish I had some of those!). Play some music that has natural instrument sounds and interesting layers, and listen for subtleties you may not have heard before: fingers squeaking on strings, that little bit of percussion in the background, the way a singer takes a breath before a verse. Try an orchestra performing Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps" (listen to the texture of the bass drum and the individual brasses), or the 2021 Billie Eilish album, or Steely Dan, or Radiohead, or whatever music you love.

What I like about the ATH-R70X is that there's a sense of open space and that the music isn't exaggerated: the vocals aren't pushed way up front (unless the producer put them there), the bass isn't trying to plow down the rest of the tune, violins and sopranos don't shriek (unless they're supposed to). Also how comfortable they are.

Price to performance is really a knotty issue. Beyond the compromises made for ultra-cheap stuff, I generally don't think 10x more expensive phones are 10 times better; the differences grow increasingly subtle (and, for casual listening, sometimes meaningless) as the prices shoot up. Even at the cheap end, manufacturers are doing some impressive things; sounds like you got lucky with your Tigers. I watch movies with a Bluetooth receiver and a $10 pair of IEMs (QKZ VK4, took awhile to find tips that sealed right) that sound fine to me for that purpose. I also have assorted IEMs for music. But since I got the ATH-R70X, I find myself reaching for those all the time when I want to pay attention to the music.

Different 'phones do have different approaches. Some go for (more or less) neutral; some go for what Head-Fi people tend to call "fun." It's all about the pleasure of the music. The best headphone is the one you like best.

 

[silvershadelynx]

Hi again! Thanks for your extensive reply. I listened Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps" at and I can hear the AT being cleaner sounding and extending more in the low end. But somehow I'm still not impressed - the cheap headphone has a lower quality compared to the AT, but not by a big margin - somehting I would have expected.

So after some thinking I decided to take another 'risk' by ordering another headphone: the Hifiman Sundara. I'm aware of Hifimans reputation of having (had) issues with quality control and durability, but this headphone seems to have a more neutral signature compared to some other Hifiman models in it's price range and although it's not everywhere recommended (without equalizing), I think it is an interesting model to compare to the AT as it has a completely different driver technology, planar magnetic as opposed to the at being a dynamic driver.

I will pick the one which sounds most pleasant to me. I made sure with the shop that I can return the headphone when I don't like it.

I'll keep you updated!

 

[Diogonni]

Hi again! Thanks for your extensive reply. I listened Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du Printemps" at and I can hear the AT being cleaner sounding and extending more in the low end. But somehow I'm still not impressed - the cheap headphone has a lower quality compared to the AT, but not by a big margin - somehting I would have expected.

So after some thinking I decided to take another 'risk' by ordering another headphone: the Hifiman Sundara. I'm aware of Hifimans reputation of having (had) issues with quality control and durability, but this headphone seems to have a more neutral signature compared to some other Hifiman models in it's price range and although it's not everywhere recommended (without equalizing), I think it is an interesting model to compare to the AT as it has a completely different driver technology, planar magnetic as opposed to the at being a dynamic driver.

I will pick the one which sounds most pleasant to me. I made sure with the shop that I can return the headphone when I don't like it.

I'll keep you updated!

Hopefully they sound good. I’ve heard good things about those headphones.

 

[silvershadelynx]

Hi again. Today I received the Hifiman Sundara and I compared it to the AT ATH-R70X. Again I didn't hear such a big difference as expected. To summarize: the Sundara has some sibilance, the "s" sound is a bit too clear maybe. This gives strings a more defined sound, but overall, mid-range sounds a bit more detailed - clearer I think, but it seems the AT has more LF extension which gives it a warmer sound signature. Also the image of the position of the listener is different between the tho headphones. Both sound good but I decided to prefer the LF extension more than the clearer mid range, although for some electronic music which I listen this is an advantage. Not sure if this clearer midrange can be more tiring in the long term. The AT is lighter as well which makes me think it could be more comfortable to wear for a longer period of time. (assumption)

As the AT is cheaper, I decided to keep the AT and return the Hifiman. But first impression of the Hifiman is positive: it feels solid and looks and sounds good.

So after all I'm happy with the AT. It seems that is has a good sound quality and my expectations were maybe unrealistic high and my cheap 5-10 headphone is of exceptionally good quality for it's price I guess. The AT gives more wearing comfort and has higher sound quality then my cheap headphone, but the coming days I will keep comparing them until I have a clear idea about their differences and similarities.