[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 They could have used a minimum membership period or minimum or post count qualification, but they didn't. Maybe they learned from that. Still people might argue that a new member with a genuine interest in the phones shouldn't have to pay for the dishonesty of dishonest people

Oh vey, I don't give a crap about that market/capitalism bull. I've heard it a million times before, and also, you're taking what I'm saying beyond the scope of this particular argument. I'm looking at the small picture, in a simple way. If you don't get what I mean, then I don't know what to say.

Even Todd himself wasn't fond of what people were doing. And yeah, I guess it's his fault for having faith in our community and it's members. No one's gonna kill anyone over this practice, people are allowed to do what they want blah blah blah; doesn't mean we have to like it.

 

[sub]

Appreciate the varied responses guys. I shouldn't forget about market demand, low supply.... apparently, I am supposed to be an economist by trade.

My gripe is not about the price of a given product. Somehow, I was naive enough to care about Headfi missing out on funding while the 'scalpers' make far more than Mr.Grado/Headfi.

I guess, for the ppl who sell these, tough tities to Jude and Headfi to miss out. I suppose old school principles? What the hell....its out the window for the time being.

Let's keep that market rolling...

 

[Cyrilix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by granodemostasa before this gets ugly: why in the world doesn't grado release more?

That's a good question. Why don't they integrate this into their standard headphone lineup? Why make it exclusive? Exclusivity does nothing for you in a physical sense.

 

[spaceconvoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmculbreth If you want to sell your HF-1 for less than market price feel free

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 If I had a personal pair and somebody offered me $400 for them, and I thought I could get better phones for $400 should I refuse to sell them because I would be profiteering?

Haha - We all have our reasons, but I just wanted to give mine since I didn't really get a chance in my shut-down for sale thread. Feeling like I've sold out and feeling guilty for making a profit on what is a just fun hobby for me is not worth an extra $100-200 (which is peanuts to what I've spent so far anyways

). I'd rather keep my fun hobby a fun hobby and not be left with a sour taste in my mouth. Sometimes more money has a way of cheapening things.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Maybe HF-1 isn't all that special to begin with, and so why fuss about it?

I think most people who bought them were expecting it to be a silver bullet or something, but it's still a Grado. It still has a very particular sound than many people (me included) can't stand. I think a lot of people saw it as a great way to try a higher end Grado at a reasonable price but ended up finding out they just don't like Grados (again, me included).

That said, maybe it was the rose colored glasses of limited-edition-ness, but I did think they sounded special. There was a certain magical balance to the sound that makes it sound very natural, but in a Grado kind of way. So you're half-right, IMO - they're only special to Grado people.

 

[Squeek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 There were 500 of them and limited to one per person. So 500+ people got them, that doesn't sound like a few to me. That simply didn't allow for anything like scalping so it wasn't an appropriate analogy.

Considering headfi is 20k+ strong, yes, 500 is a "few". Particularly when you consider how many "new" members became owners and subsequently sellers of the limited run.

Scalpers purchase solely for the purpose of profit, so yes, I believe the analogy is appropriate.

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia Oh vey, I don't give a crap about that market/capitalism bull. I've heard it a million times before, and also, you're taking what I'm saying beyond the scope of this particular argument. I'm looking at the small picture, in a simple way. If you don't get what I mean, then I don't know what to say. Even Todd himself wasn't fond of what people were doing. And yeah, I guess it's his fault for having faith in our community and it's members. No one's gonna kill anyone over this practice, people are allowed to do what they want blah blah blah; doesn't mean we have to like it.

I didn't say I like what those cheaters are doing.

Originally I was working on an, albeit incorrect, assumption that people got one and only one HF-1 each. If people did in fact get only one, I believe they have the right to sell it if they didn't want it anymore for whatever reason.

Since you told me how people cheated the system, I now see that it is a disappointment to those who held some faith in our community. However such is the nature of people. You're right that we don't have to like it. But we are accusing people of cheating without being sure of it.

 

[nierika]

For god's sake there are dedicated forums for selling headphones and a number of members who change headphones like underwear. Why does it matter of a HF-1 owner sells their pair? The market determines the price of all of the other previously owned headphones that are sold, why would the HF-1 be any different?

 

[nsjong]

This argument is exactly the same as saying every retail seller are jerks.

Every retail seller buys wholesale price and sells for 3 times as much, sometimes more.

Need I say more?

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sub Appreciate the varied responses guys. I shouldn't forget about market demand, low supply.... apparently, I am supposed to be an economist by trade. My gripe is not about the price of a given product. Somehow, I was naive enough to care about Headfi missing out on funding while the 'scalpers' make far more than Mr.Grado/Headfi. I guess, for the ppl who sell these, tough tities to Jude and Headfi to miss out. I suppose old school principles? What the hell....its out the window for the time being. Let's keep that market rolling...

As an Economist, you must have known that it was inevitable that this would happen. It was a limited edition product, there was no other way this could have ended short of them requiring a $500 bond forfeited in case of unapproved sale of the headphones. Or other draconian measure.

 

[dan1son]

I currently own and don't plan on selling my HF-1's, but I hate to think that if I decide to sell them for their current market value that I would get shunned off by a significant amount of people on this board.

Most things purchased in this world go down in value, it's a rarity when something goes up. The headphones in question are extremely nice and people have decided they are worth more than their original purchase price. So what?

I'm also just not sure how profitting $200-$400 is profiteering. Maybe if someone managed to buy ten of them and started selling them once the price went way up... but all you could buy is one. It shouldn't bother anyone that the price has significantly gone up, no one seems to care when people spend more than the MSRP for the much older HP series.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sxr71 But we are accusing people of cheating without being sure of it.

I don't recall anyone mentioned specifically in this thread, but cmon, you've been around, you telling me you think every single hf-1 resale has been sincere? People were selling these supposed great sounding phones unopened, weeks/months after they originally purchased them. Some even admitted they had more than one pair, and were keeping one and selling the other. (even though they shouldn't have two in the first place) Obviously, not all the sales were like this, many had real reasons to ditch the phones. But quite a few were damn fishy.

To some of you guys, this ain't a big deal. But when you've been part of head-fi so long that you see it as an actual friendly, trustworthy community; stuff like this is probably gonna irk you. This thread isn't going anywhere the other ones haven't, people will always be split on the subject. Some get it, others don't, most just dun give a crap.

 

[radrd]

Does anyone else get tired of the large amount of people on the Internet who have nothing better to do than bitch and moan about every little thing? Regardless of which side you are on, do me a favor and go protest the war in Iraq and give this stupid topic a rest.

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek Considering headfi is 20k+ strong, yes, 500 is a "few". Particularly when you consider how many "new" members became owners and subsequently sellers of the limited run. Scalpers purchase solely for the purpose of profit, so yes, I believe the analogy is appropriate.

See if scalpers survive by standing outside selling one ticket. Sure people did sign up just to buy one and sell it later, but nobody stopped you from buying one either. There was plenty of time for anybody who wanted one to get one. They didn't sell out in minutes. So these people got in for whatever reason (to sell or listen). Where do you draw the line on what people should be allowed to do? They didn't kill anyone or cheat anyone to buy one.

If however they bought 2 or 3 through dishonest means solely to sell then they are cheaters. They have no conscience and not concern for the community, but they are amongst us and we let them in. Such is life.

Somebody could have bought one because they like to collect limited editions of anything even if they had no intent to listen to it. If they were offered $400 to sell it, would that be wrong if they sold it? Who's to blame the seller or the buyer?

If 500 wasn't enough complain to Grado Labs. They made enough that it took quite a while to sell. Should they risk making 20,000 and risk wasting 80% of them instead?

 

[nierika]

Thankfully, I'm occupied with my own life and don't waste time worrying about what headphones people are selling and speculating about why they are selling them.

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia I don't recall anyone mentioned specifically in this thread, but cmon, you've been around, you telling me you think every single hf-1 resale has been sincere? People were selling these supposed great sounding phones unopened, weeks/months after they originally purchased them. Some even admitted they had more than one pair, and were keeping one and selling the other. (even though they shouldn't have two in the first place) Obviously, not all the sales were like this, many had real reasons to ditch the phones. But quite a few were damn fishy. To some of you guys, this ain't a big deal. But when you've been part of head-fi so long that you see it as an actual friendly, trustworthy community; stuff like this is probably gonna irk you. This thread isn't going anywhere the other ones haven't, people will always be split on the subject. Some get it, others don't, most just dun give a crap.

True. But what can you do? I don't like it either.

Unfortunately or fortunately, this is an open community with no real standards of admission. They don't do a background check or credit check or require a character reference to let you join. A good number of people here don't give a damn about our community and have no second thoughts about gouging us. I guess Grado and Todd did the best they could when restricting the offer to our community.

I guess this is a lesson learned and if there is a next time, they might use more stringent criteria. For now it is over and hopefully it will go better next time.