[halo26]

Hi, I'm totally new so please be kind if my questions reveal my HIFI ignorance!

My son and I mainly listen to classical music, piano, violin, concertos, symphonic. I also like jazz. I have a collection of about 600 CDs in those genres, and I don't necessarily have the time and energy to convert it all to FLAC digital files, at least not all at once. For that matter, I really like the idea of loading a physical product into a player instead of yet another screen. I'm interested in trying some headphones (sennheiser 58x or 6xx), Koss electrostatics, and some tube combinations. I've been eying Schitt's products, particularly Lyr3 or Vali2, coupled with a multibit Schitt headphone amp. I have a few questions:

(1) I'm planning on using a CD player with digital coaxial output to feed the DAC. Do I need the DAC to have a coaxial input, or can I use a DAC which only has USB input, and use a coaxial to USB convertor, which I can get on Amazon on $15. The thing is, does a cheap convertor like that ruin the chain and dirty up the signal, in which case I need to limit myself to DACs with a coaxial input? (As a practical matter, the tiny Vali2 Amp would stack nicely with the Modi DAC, and the modi Dac accepts coaxial. On the other hand, if I were to get the much larger Lyr combo DAC/Amp, it does not have a coaxial input.)

(2) Is the sound on the Lyr 3much better than the Vali 2? I am most concerned about imaging and soundstage. Is the difference minimal? Is the Lyr3 clearly superior?

(3) Is the multibit DAC worth it vs the 4490 Dac? Particulalry when paired with one of their hybrid tube amps?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Hi, welcome, I don't have any experience with converters but in theory at least, if your main source is a CD player without coax out you should look for a compatible DAC. There are intermediate devices called DDC (digital/digital converter) which do format conversions and this is an option but it's expensive.

 

[halo26]

To be clear, the CD player has coax out. The question is whether I should eliminate from consideration DAC units which only have USB input. I take it that the el cheapo coax <----> USB convertors don't do a good job?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I understood you and there are enough good DACs with coax in that if a CD player with coaxial out is your major source I would recommend getting one of those DACs.

I haven't used converters of any kind except for a well-engineered DDC, I'm against gimmicks.

 

[halo26]

Thank you. I like to avoid gimmicks as well ---- no shortcuts to excellence.

 

[silent-circuit]

A good quality DDC is going to run you $200+, so yeah, I can only imagine the little $15 things introduce all kinds of garbage.

As headroom said, if you want to use a CD player with optical or coax out, get a DAC that supports those inputs (i.e. not a Schiit card DAC).

 

[Monsterzero]

I'm interested in trying some headphones (sennheiser 58x or 6xx),

I am most concerned about imaging and soundstage

I realize the point of your post is to find a DAC that accepts coax input, but I think if soundstage is important to you then the Senns will disappoint.

The 6xx is a nice headphone, especially with a nice OTL amp, but even then the staging is notoriously narrow. Imaging is great, staging not so much.

For staging and classical music in general I'd suggest looking into getting an old AKG K601, or if that cant be found, an Austrian made K701 will work great too.
If you're stuck on Sennheisers then the HD800 is the headphone you want.

 

[halo26]

Thanks for your advice about headphones. HD800 is over my budget at this point. I suppose I'm still at the point of wanting to try a few headphones to see what I like ---- well aware that I'll spend more this way. So I'm probably going to end up trying out a planar (not sure which one), a sennheiser, etc.... Even though by the time my preference is clear I'll probably have spent enough to have purchased an HD800. That's the hobby aspect of it. But if it's OK, I have a couple more questions for you about headphones:
(1) I know that imaging and staging are different and it's possible to have more of one and less of another. They're both important to me for classical, but I think imaging may be MORE important to me ---- hearing the first violins, the second violins, and the woodwinds etc are distinct in placement is more important to me than a wide soundstage but imprecise delineation of the instruments within that stage. SO...... are the AKGs better in imaging AND soundstage or just in soundstage, with imaging being more diffuse? I am much more comfortable buying new ---- are the (non-Austrian) AKG 701, 702, 712, or 7XX inferior?
(2) Humor me and assume that I will be getting at least one pair of either the 58X or 6XX. Which would you take?
(3) Lastly, would you think that the Sennheisers are good for Jazz or Quartets (ie smaller ensemble music)?

Thanks again!

 

[Monsterzero]

are the (non-Austrian) AKG 701, 702, 712, or 7XX inferior?

AFAIK the only difference between the K701 and K702 is detachable cable on the 702. Some claim they can hear a difference between the two. Others say BS. Regardless if there is a difference, its clearly quite small.

The 7xx on the other hand I didnt like at all. Its been a few years so what exactly it was that turned me off I dont even recall.

(2) Humor me and assume that I will be getting at least one pair of either the 58X or 6XX. Which would you take?

6xx. No question. Its a legend in this hobby for a good reason. It scales incredibly well, has excellent imaging and has a nice, warm, musical sound. That being said it isnt perfect. Sub bass doesnt go down as far as I'd like and the above forementioned narrow staging. Then there is the comfort issue. It has a substantial clamp that can cause fatigue on your skull. there are vids on Youtube detailing how to loosen the clamp.

(3) Lastly, would you think that the Sennheisers are good for Jazz or Quartets (ie smaller ensemble music)?

Jazz isnt my area of expertise, so I cant comment.

are the AKGs better in imaging AND soundstage or just in soundstage, with imaging being more diffuse?

The K701 is a fickle headphone. Many do not like its neutral (bass light) presentation. Others find it bright.
The fact of the matter is the K701 is neither bass light nor is it bright. What it is however is quite amp picky. Out of a Schiit Magni it is quite bright and bass light, so I get where those people are coming from.

I own an OTL with a very low impedance output that happens to blend incredibly well with the K701. In my system it sounds like a thousand+ dollar headphone. Out of entry level Schiit gear it sounds like....well...schiit.

At one point in time I had the K701 and the 6xx in my collection. The 6xx is long gone. The K701 is still here coexisting with heaphones costing ten times as much, and holding their own.

Given your budget and preferences for tight imaging I'd stick with the 6xx. The K701 in my system has a very liquid, flowing presentation. not at all tight and precise.

Hope this helps.

 

[halo26]

AFAIK the only difference between the K701 and K702 is detachable cable on the 702. Some claim they can hear a difference between the two. Others say BS. Regardless if there is a difference, its clearly quite small.

The 7xx on the other hand I didnt like at all. Its been a few years so what exactly it was that turned me off I dont even recall.

6xx. No question. Its a legend in this hobby for a good reason. It scales incredibly well, has excellent imaging and has a nice, warm, musical sound. That being said it isnt perfect. Sub bass doesnt go down as far as I'd like and the above forementioned narrow staging. Then there is the comfort issue. It has a substantial clamp that can cause fatigue on your skull. there are vids on Youtube detailing how to loosen the clamp.

Jazz isnt my area of expertise, so I cant comment.

The K701 is a fickle headphone. Many do not like its neutral (bass light) presentation. Others find it bright.
The fact of the matter is the K701 is neither bass light nor is it bright. What it is however is quite amp picky. Out of a Schiit Magni it is quite bright and bass light, so I get where those people are coming from.

I own an OTL with a very low impedance output that happens to blend incredibly well with the K701. In my system it sounds like a thousand+ dollar headphone. Out of entry level Schiit gear it sounds like....well...schiit.

At one point in time I had the K701 and the 6xx in my collection. The 6xx is long gone. The K701 is still here coexisting with heaphones costing ten times as much, and holding their own.

Given your budget and preferences for tight imaging I'd stick with the 6xx. The K701 in my system has a very liquid, flowing presentation. not at all tight and precise.

Hope this helps.

Thanks! Def helps,!
To clarify, my question about quartet was about classical (cello, viola, 2 violins as well). Would I be correct in assuming that small sound stage doesn't really negatively impact a smaller group?

I'm definitely going with entry level, but wondering if the softer sound of the vali 2 vs the magnib would help tame the 701

 

[Monsterzero]

I'm definitely going with entry level, but wondering if the softer sound of the vali 2 vs the magnib would help tame the 701

Ive never heard the Vali 2 so take my words with a couple grains of salt, but I would assume that if you roll in a warmer tube( Mullard, RCA) that might help a bit. I wouldnt suggest a Telefunken with the K701.

To clarify, my question about quartet was about classical (cello, viola, 2 violins as well). Would I be correct in assuming that small sound stage doesn't really negatively impact a smaller group?

I'd think not. Like jazz, classical isnt my strong suit. I have between the two genres only 300or so files (out of 46,000+) , so my thoughts on the topic aren't well informed. I do know that many classical aficionados swear by the K501, K601 and K701, hence the recommendation.

Seeing as how you're just dipping your toes into the hobby, I think the HD6xx is a very safe bet. Its nearly universally praised by beginners and vets alike, whereas the AKGs can be quite polarizing.

The 6xx has an added helping of mid bass and excellent mids. the sound signature of the 6xx lends itself well to rock, blues, folk etc. If you want to avoid the mid bass, the HD600 is also a very good headphone to look into, but it has most of the strengths ( and weaknesses ) of the 6xx, just less mid bass.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

HD 600 is great for jazz, my main musical interest. But they need some amp.