Help with Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pros 250 Ohm

[TheGame]

Hi, I am new here so nice to meet you all. First off, I am not an expert in any way so if something sounds stupid I apologize in advance.
 
I just bought the DT 990 Pros today and I had a question. If I try to boost the bass frequencies I start getting distortion. Is this normal for these cans? I'm simply running them through a Creative X-fi Titanium HD sound card on PC (no amp or anything). When I start turning up the volume, these cans sound great with a flat eq. But I do like bass so I tried boosting the 31Hz range and 62Hz range in eq. When doing so, I start getting distortion. I've messed a little with the bass crossover frequencies and the 39Hz-69Hz range give me horrible distortion. Can anyone tell me if it is normal these cans can't handle too much bass? Would an amp fix this problem? I can get plenty of volume out of my sound card to drive these cans, but like I said when trying to boost bass frequencies I start getting distortion. I own a pair of Shure SE530's and have had no problems with bass distortion at any volume. I also own a pair of beats pro's (my fault for not reading up on them first so don't hate me) but those also can handle as much bass as I can throw at them. I really like the sound of these DT 990 pro's but would like it if it could handle a little bass. If anyone knows the solution or any tips/suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. I hope I just didn't get a bad pair of them and have to return them.
 
I apologize again for being a newbie.

 

[TMRaven]

Are you boosting the frequencies in the EQ without lowering the preamp?  To EQ, keep the frequencies you want to be boosted at 0db, while lowering everything else accordingly.
 
For example, if you wanted to boost 64 and 32hz by 6db, keep those and 0db and lower everything else to -6db, then turn the volume up as needed.

 

[TheGame]

Hi TMRaven,
 
Thank you very much for the reply. I did as you suggested and sure enough the distortion was gone while the bass was were I liked it. Unfortunately for me in doing that, I don't have quite enough power to drive the headphones so I cannot test if the distortion continues at high volumes using the method you suggested. So I guess I am going to need to purchase an amp. I have never owned a headphone amp before so I don't know much about them. I was doing some research and it seems like all of the really good DAC/AMP's are out of my price range. I did find the FiiO E17 (found a thread here at Head-Fi) and it seems to be pretty good for what I could afford. My Creative X-fi Titanium HD has optical out and can do 24 bit/192kHz sample rate and from what I've read, the FiiO E17 has an optical-in and can handle 24bit / 192kHz and can handle 300Ohms. Would this be a good choice as an amp for the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's since they are 250Ohm? And would it be better to just bypass my Creative X-fi Titanium HD and just run through the amp via USB or to use an optical cable from the X-fi to the amp?
 
I'm sorry for being so new at this and I sincerely appreciate your reply and any further suggestions you or others may have.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

Thank you very much for the reply. I did as you suggested and sure enough the distortion was gone while the bass was were I liked it. Unfortunately for me in doing that, I don't have quite enough power to drive the headphones so I cannot test if the distortion continues at high volumes using the method you suggested. So I guess I am going to need to purchase an amp. I have never owned a headphone amp before so I don't know much about them. I was doing some research and it seems like all of the really good DAC/AMP's are out of my price range. I did find the FiiO E17 (found a thread here at Head-Fi) and it seems to be pretty good for what I could afford. My Creative X-fi Titanium HD has optical out and can do 24 bit/192kHz sample rate and from what I've read, the FiiO E17 has an optical-in and can handle 24bit / 192kHz and can handle 300Ohms. Would this be a good choice as an amp for the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's since they are 250Ohm? And would it be better to just bypass my Creative X-fi Titanium HD and just run through the amp via USB or to use an optical cable from the X-fi to the amp?
I'm sorry for being so new at this and I sincerely appreciate your reply and any further suggestions you or others may have.

Nothing wrong with using the DAC (PCM1794) built into the TiHD
Most practical is to just get an external headphone amplifier and plug it into the TiHD's RCA (analog) outputs.
Made in China tube headphone amplifier, $50-$96.
Fiio E9, $100
O2 (Objective 2) portable headphone amplifier, $155, works fine as a normal AC desktop headphone amplifier.
Little DOT MKIII tube amplifier, $255

 

[TheGame]

Hi PurpleAngel,
 
Thank you for the reply. The Fiio E9 or E09K seem like the best choice for my budget. I am having a hard time finding the E9, but I did find the E09K for $109. I wasn't sure if I needed a DAC, but since I can use the one built in to the TiHD, just getting an amp like you suggested seems to be the logical choice. And the E09k can output up to 300Ohms. So I'll probably go with that and connect via RCA connectors as you have said.
 
Thank you very much for your suggestions and reply, and I apologize for being a newb,  I am still learning this stuff.

 

[Eargasmo]

The beyers DT990 pros shouldn't be distorting at bass.  They are fully capable of producing wonderful analytical warm bass when amped properly.  I find them to be power hogs that power beautifully off my yamaha receiver.
 
I wouldn't jump at any amp in your budget.  I would try to find a good pairing for the DT990 Pros.

 

[TheGame]

What amp would you suggest?
 

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

Hi PurpleAngel,
 
Thank you for the reply. The Fiio E9 or E09K seem like the best choice for my budget. I am having a hard time finding the E9, but I did find the E09K for $109. I wasn't sure if I needed a DAC, but since I can use the one built in to the TiHD, just getting an amp like you suggested seems to be the logical choice. And the E09k can output up to 300Ohms. So I'll probably go with that and connect via RCA connectors as you have said.
 
Thank you very much for your suggestions and reply, and I apologize for being a newb,  I am still learning this stuff.

The Fiio E09K should be fine, it can work with headphones up to 600-Ohms.

 

[TheGame]

Heya everyone! First of thank you for such a great site and for all of the advice so far, I am sorry I am such a beginner at this.
 
I have owned a pair of DT990 250 ohm headphones for about 6 months now. Up until recently I have been listening to them with a flat EQ and they sound great. However I do like some bass and I have read in the forums here at Head-Fi that the DT990 Pros can put out some nice bass. So I have been experimenting the last few days with the EQ on my sound card (I am currently using a Creative Titanium HD soundcard with a FiiO E9K headphone amp) and I cannot seem to get a good bass sound that I am looking for without it being muddy and losing clarity.
 
For example, if I boost the bass in the EQ (using the Creative console launcher) the bass seems muddy, and if I cut the bass back, then the bass is lacking. I cannot seem to obtain a good balance of good, deep bass, and clarity with the highs and mids (if that is even possible to have both). I have tried different settings with the bass crossover frequency going from between 39 Hz to over 100 Hz and still cannot find a good sweet spot.I have also tried cutting the EQ on all of the frequencies except the 31Hz and 62Hz with not much of a difference. The DT 990 Pro's sound great even at a flat EQ, but I would like some deep bass to go a long with it while maintaining some kind of clarity and not being muddy. Is this possible? Does anyone have any good suggestions on how I may achieve this? Are there any other Equalizers out there that would work better than the Creative Console Launcher or any other programs I could use if the Creative Console Launcher EQ isn't the answer?
 
Thank you again for any suggestions and/or tips any of you have. You guys are awesome and I love reading and learning from you guys. Thank you for such a great site and I appreciate all of your help. Sorry, I am still a beginner at this stuff, and I am on a tight budget so I don't have much of an elaborate setup.
 
Thanks!!

 

[ZeNmAc]

Welcome and I just lost the game

.  Since you said yourself you're a newbie at this, I'll throw in some general advice... Audiophiles are strange ppl (I say that in the best possible way).  As you may have already found out from lurking on this or similar sites, read everything relating to high end audio through a strong BS filter.  What I'm getting at is that some ppl on here are really smart or have heard a lot of gear and know there stuff while others just parrot what they've read and pass it off as fact.  If more ppl did this a lot of hype would die and ppl wouldn't waste nearly as much money.  With that said, welcome, and sorry about your wallet

.
 
Quote:

Are you boosting the frequencies in the EQ without lowering the preamp?  To EQ, keep the frequencies you want to be boosted at 0db, while lowering everything else accordingly.
 
For example, if you wanted to boost 64 and 32hz by 6db, keep those and 0db and lower everything else to -6db, then turn the volume up as needed.

I'd try boosting the bass and lowering the preamp.  Lowering the other bands doesn't necessarily lower everything the same (depending on how good the eq is).
 
My 2 cents, don't bother with tube amps.  You can get a pretty decent solid state amp for not too much $$.  For what it's worth, I use the dac/amp on my M-audio mobile pre (which I got for its mic preamp/adc funnily enough) and it powers my dt990 pros beautifully.  It gets pretty loud at just half volume and sounds really good.  I wouldn't recommend the mobile pre to you since it's primary purpose for me was the preamp/adc, but the point is there is a lot of really good stuff that's overlooked.  It may not be as pretty as popular amps but tbh it doesn't take much to sound good.  Sorry I can't give any specific recommendations.
 
I've also read that portable amps sometimes aren't as good as normal amps.  The reasoning was that a lot of portable gear is very simple for the price you pay.  I can't confirm this since I don't own a portable amp, but it makes sense that it would be more difficult to make something small with a battery etc. of high quality.  Take that with a grain of salt tho

.  I guess transformers are also pretty expensive.
 
Also, the dt990s have plenty of bass to begin with, you shouldn't have to boost it.  Turn up the volume once you get the amp and you should have all the bass you need.  If the treble is too piercing, eq 5-9khz down by about 6db and that should solve any harshness problems.
 
*edit* wait, did you just resurrect your own thread?

 

[TheGame]

Hi ZeNmAc,
 
Thank you for the reply. I really appreciate your help. I am not sure what the preamp is that you are referring to (remember I am a beginner). I am just using the Creative Console launcher with my Creative Titanium X-fi HD sound card and a Fiio E09K Headphone amp with my DT 990 Pro's. It looks like this:
 

 
I have tried different settings but cannot get a good balance between clarity and bass. The console launcher also has a speaker size option where you can set crossover frequencies, which I know virtually nothing about. Here is a screen shot of what i mean:
 

 
 

 
I am sorry if the pics are a little large, but I wanted you to be able to see clearly what I have to work with (the text was a little small with smaller pictures. If you have any further suggestions I would certainly welcome them. I love my DT 990 Pro's and on my budget, the DT 990 Pro's and the Fiio E09k is the best I can afford right now. But hopefully in the future I can get some better components. If you wouldn't mind taking a look at my EQ settings and offering some more suggestions I would greatly appreciate it, and thank you so much for your reply.
 
P.S. Should I maybe change/swap OP-amp sockets inside the card itself? Would that improve the sound or should I just leave them the way they were installed at the factory? Would it make a difference to change the Op-amp sockets around?
 
Quote from the Creative Titanium HD Product page:
 
Personalize your sound with upgradeable components
 
"For the discerning music listener, you can personalize your listening experience with the swappable OP-amp sockets on the sound card to tailor sound to the way you want it."
 
P.S.S. Yes looks like I resurrected my own thread. I am sorry, still a beginner here so I am still learning this stuff. Thank you again!

 

[ZeNmAc]

Quote:

Hi ZeNmAc,
 
Thank you for the reply. I really appreciate your help. I am not sure what the preamp is that you are referring to (remember I am a beginner). I am just using the Creative Console launcher with my Creative Titanium X-fi HD sound card and a Fiio E09K Headphone amp with my DT 990 Pro's. It looks like this:
 
 
 
I have tried different settings but cannot get a good balance between clarity and bass. The console launcher also has a speaker size option where you can set crossover frequencies, which I know virtually nothing about. Here is a screen shot of what i mean:
 
 
I am sorry if the pics are a little large, but I wanted you to be able to see clearly what I have to work with (the text was a little small with smaller pictures. If you have any further suggestions I would certainly welcome them. I love my DT 990 Pro's and on my budget, the DT 990 Pro's and the Fiio E09k is the best I can afford right now. But hopefully in the future I can get some better components. If you wouldn't mind taking a look at my EQ settings and offering some more suggestions I would greatly appreciate it, and thank you so much for your reply.
 
P.S. Should I maybe change/swap OP-amp sockets inside the card itself? Would that improve the sound or should I just leave them the way they were installed at the factory? Would it make a difference to change the Op-amp sockets around?
 
Quote from the Creative Titanium HD Product page:
 
Personalize your sound with upgradeable components
 
"For the discerning music listener, you can personalize your listening experience with the swappable OP-amp sockets on the sound card to tailor sound to the way you want it."
 
P.S.S. Yes looks like I resurrected my own thread. I am sorry, still a beginner here so I am still learning this stuff. Thank you again!

The crossover is only for speakers.  Basically it selects how much of the bass gets sent to the sub.  It shouldn't make a difference on the headphone port, and you should disable it unless you're using speakers.
 

 
For the eq, set everything to flat, then boost the bass frequencies you want.  Reduce the level slider on the right until distortion goes away.  Or simply just reduce it by the amount you raised the other eq sliders.
 
Since you got the fiio, have you been able to get good volume from the dt990s?

 

[TheGame]

Hi ZeNmAc,
 
Thank you once again for taking the time to help a beginner out. I sincerely appreciate your advice and all of your help. I know helping a beginner can sometimes be frustrating since I do not know much about all of this stuff, but I eventually want to be knowledgeable in all of this and hopefully over time collect some good audio components like you guys have.
 
I have followed your advice and disabled the speaker size (in pic 2 above) and also disabled the crossover frequency in (pic 3 above). Surprisingly, the speaker size in pic2 and crossover frequency adjustment slider in pic 3 actually do effect headphone bass as well as regular speakers. If you look in pic 3 above, you'll notice that where it says "Current Speaker Setup" Headphones is listed there, and it indeed adjusts the bass crossover frequencies and adds bass boost. But I have followed your advice and disabled it. It is nice to be able to control the crossover frequency for the bass for the headphones but it is touchy and can give too little or too much bass, making it either muddy or lacking in bass.
 
As far as the advice you have given me on EQ'ing, I have set the EQ frequencies to flat and boosted the bass frequencies, but in doing that the bass is lacking. Perhaps it is because of the Creative console launcher program that I am using that came with the Creative Titanium HD soundcard. The DT990's are not the problem as far as bass goes, because they can certainly handle very deep bass pretty well and cleanly (unless you boost it too much then it can become muddy and distorted), however there is no doubt that if I can just get the right EQ settings that the bass will be nice and full without being muddy and I can still hear good mids and highs. I am just not experienced enough to figure it out. And I have spent a lot of time trying to do adjustments to the EQ to try to get it where I would like it, but it ends up being too bassy or too thin.
 
Do you suggest maybe I try a different EQ program to try to adjust the EQ? And if so, is there anything you would recommend? It can be a free program or paid, but as of right now I am just looking for that sweet spot for the DT990's. I did download Equalizer APO but I haven't installed it yet to try it out. But at this point I would try any good EQ program paid or free.
 
As far as the Fiio headphone amp, I have been very impressed with it. At the time, I paid $109 for it, but it has been worth it. It drives the DT 990 Pros with little effort. Usually if I set the volume on the Fiio to about the 11 o'clock position it gives me plenty of juice. The Creative Titanium HD states that it can handle headphones up to 330 Ohms but I think they may be exaggerating that a bit. Before I bought the Fiio, I would have to pretty much crank my PC's volume to max to get a decent volume and it didn't sound all that great. The Fiio has really addressed that problem.
 
Anyway, the suggestions you have given me have been a really big help and I think I am getting closer to the sound I am looking for. I would just like to have a nice deep bass (which the DT 990's can provide) but still have some clarity without it being too muddy.
 
I listen to mostly rock, metal, progressive metal, solo guitarists (like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, John Petrucci etc) and when I listen to those genres, just setting the EQ flat gives me excellent results. But I also like to listen to electronica, J-Pop, and Anime music which really sound good with some deep bass, but in pushing the bass I lose clarity.
 
Again I sincerely thank you for helping a beginner out, your suggestions and advice are getting me closer to where I would like the DT 990's to sound. If you have any further suggestions, or suggestions on perhaps a different EQ program paid or free that you can suggest, I am certainly willing to give it a try.
 
P.S. What do you have your DT 990 Pro's EQ set at or do you even use EQ for them?
 
Thank you again!!!

 

[ZeNmAc]

Quote:

Hi ZeNmAc,
 
Thank you once again for taking the time to help a beginner out. I sincerely appreciate your advice and all of your help. I know helping a beginner can sometimes be frustrating since I do not know much about all of this stuff, but I eventually want to be knowledgeable in all of this and hopefully over time collect some good audio components like you guys have.
 
I have followed your advice and disabled the speaker size (in pic 2 above) and also disabled the crossover frequency in (pic 3 above). Surprisingly, the speaker size in pic2 and crossover frequency adjustment slider in pic 3 actually do effect headphone bass as well as regular speakers. If you look in pic 3 above, you'll notice that where it says "Current Speaker Setup" Headphones is listed there, and it indeed adjusts the bass crossover frequencies and adds bass boost. But I have followed your advice and disabled it. It is nice to be able to control the crossover frequency for the bass for the headphones but it is touchy and can give too little or too much bass, making it either muddy or lacking in bass.
 
As far as the advice you have given me on EQ'ing, I have set the EQ frequencies to flat and boosted the bass frequencies, but in doing that the bass is lacking. Perhaps it is because of the Creative console launcher program that I am using that came with the Creative Titanium HD soundcard. The DT990's are not the problem as far as bass goes, because they can certainly handle very deep bass pretty well and cleanly (unless you boost it too much then it can become muddy and distorted), however there is no doubt that if I can just get the right EQ settings that the bass will be nice and full without being muddy and I can still hear good mids and highs. I am just not experienced enough to figure it out. And I have spent a lot of time trying to do adjustments to the EQ to try to get it where I would like it, but it ends up being too bassy or too thin.
 
Do you suggest maybe I try a different EQ program to try to adjust the EQ? And if so, is there anything you would recommend? It can be a free program or paid, but as of right now I am just looking for that sweet spot for the DT990's. I did download Equalizer APO but I haven't installed it yet to try it out. But at this point I would try any good EQ program paid or free.
 
As far as the Fiio headphone amp, I have been very impressed with it. At the time, I paid $109 for it, but it has been worth it. It drives the DT 990 Pros with little effort. Usually if I set the volume on the Fiio to about the 11 o'clock position it gives me plenty of juice. The Creative Titanium HD states that it can handle headphones up to 330 Ohms but I think they may be exaggerating that a bit. Before I bought the Fiio, I would have to pretty much crank my PC's volume to max to get a decent volume and it didn't sound all that great. The Fiio has really addressed that problem.
 
Anyway, the suggestions you have given me have been a really big help and I think I am getting closer to the sound I am looking for. I would just like to have a nice deep bass (which the DT 990's can provide) but still have some clarity without it being too muddy.
 
I listen to mostly rock, metal, progressive metal, solo guitarists (like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, John Petrucci etc) and when I listen to those genres, just setting the EQ flat gives me excellent results. But I also like to listen to electronica, J-Pop, and Anime music which really sound good with some deep bass, but in pushing the bass I lose clarity.
 
Again I sincerely thank you for helping a beginner out, your suggestions and advice are getting me closer to where I would like the DT 990's to sound. If you have any further suggestions, or suggestions on perhaps a different EQ program paid or free that you can suggest, I am certainly willing to give it a try.
 
P.S. What do you have your DT 990 Pro's EQ set at or do you even use EQ for them?
 
Thank you again!!!

 
I've looked at standalone software eqs for windows, and unfortunately I haven't found anything that good yet.  I think some people on here use a plugin called Electri-Q with winamp.  I also just found this one  (also winamp) which looks amazing although overkill for your purposes.  Of course a global eq like the one built into the soundcard is more convenient since it eq's all sounds.  The ones I mentioned are only for the media player (i.e. browser doesn't get changed).  So you can try the media player's eq, but the one you have now will probably be the best option.
 
Here's what my eq looks like.  It's the eq built into foobar2000.  My goal was flat though.

 
Can you link a good example of a song you want good bass with?  After working with a sub in my car I've come to realize the recording itself is really important.  Metal for example usually doesn't have the strongest bass compared to electronic or something.
 
Here's a good example, with no eq there's plenty of bass in this song.
 

 

[cyberidd]

In my experience, while solid state is quite good, the amp that I found has made the 990 sound ttheir best (so far) has been the Bottlehead Crack. That will
definitely be the next addition to my collection! I just find that the two signatures melt together well to create a really wonderful sound!